You don't win by quitting... (Ron is still a Republican)

[Matt Collins]

YOUR GOP shilling isn't welcome around here.

I am not shilling for the GOP lolz. I'm saying we should gain power, not work for them.

 

[Matt Collins]

(in no small part to Matt Holdridge/Benton stabbing us in the back).

What did Holdridge do?

 

[pacelli]

This thread is still in Ron Paul Grassroots General. So I will say, Ron Paul didn't quit, and, he didn't win the nomination.

They fixed the nomination. There is ample documented, video evidence that rules were changed at the state and national GOP levels to prevent Ron Paul delegates from nominating him from the floor. Maine walked out. Soooooo..... in the interest of productivity..

How do we prevent against this in the future?

 

[jmdrake]

Of course we have, we are able to directly communicate with each other, not having to rely on gatekeepers.

That was possible prior to the invention of the internet by this neat little device called the telephone. And most of the internet communication wasn't effective communication. If it was the whole P.A.U.L.Fest versus Jesse Benton fiasco wouldn't have happened. (The only way I can give Jesse Benton and by extension Ron Paul the benefit of the doubt it to chalk this all up to one big misunderstanding).

Effectively circumventing the media = getting your message out to general voters who don't already agree with you.

It was impossible for anyone to win against LBJ that year, largely because of the JFK assasination.

Meh. There's always something that helps the incumbent. In 2004 it was residual fear from 9/11. This year it's "Obama got Osama". LBJ could have been beaten. But he crushed Goldwater with his viscous TV ads.

 

[Matt Collins]

They fixed the nomination. There is ample documented, video evidence that rules were changed at the state and national GOP levels to prevent Ron Paul delegates from nominating him from the floor. Maine walked out. Soooooo..... in the interest of productivity..

How do we prevent against this in the future?

By having more liberty supporters show up and be involved in the Republican party.

 

[AuH20]

Meh. There's always something that helps the incumbent. In 2004 it was residual fear from 9/11. This year it's "Obama got Osama". LBJ could have been beaten. But he crushed Goldwater with his viscous TV ads.

Goldwater was unilaterally steamrolled by the media as soon as he secured the nomination. It was a relentless series of misleading attacks, even to the point that a psychiatric journal questioned his mental state. Then on top of it, the Rockefeller moderate faction he defeated actually turned their back on him and voted against him during the general election.

 

[twomp]

Everyone is just frustrated and it's difficult to watch meltdowns that threaten to destroy so much of what has been gained.

Agreed! It is becoming a little frustrating with the non-stop hammering over the head of people trying to dictate which way we ALL should go when this has always been a work on what you want to do type of forum.

Apparently people who don't want to fall in line with the "takeover the gop" plan are now QUITTERS and DEFEATIST according to Mr. Collins. When in reality, we are just discussing alternate solutions.

Discussing ALTERNATE solutions = DEFEATIST according to MR. Collins.

 

[jmdrake]

Goldwater was unilaterally steamrolled by the media as soon as he secured the nomination. It was a relentless series of misleading attacks, even to the point that a psychiatric journal questioned his mental state. Then on top of it, the Rockefeller moderate faction he defeated actually turned their back on him and voted against him during the general election.

And history wouldn't repeat itself with Romney channeling Rockefeller? Sorry, but I can't get that Doug Wead interview out of my head. Romney played chicken with us and we blinked.

 

[AuH20]

And history wouldn't repeat itself with Romney channeling Rockefeller? Sorry, but I can't get that Doug Wead interview out of my head. Romney played chicken with us and we blinked.

It's certainly possible.

 

[jllundqu]

Agreed! It is becoming a little frustrating with the non-stop hammering over the head of people trying to dictate which way we ALL should go when this has always been a work on what you want to do type of forum.

Apparently people who don't want to fall in line with the "takeover the gop" plan are now QUITTERS and DEFEATIST according to Mr. Collins. When in reality, we are just discussing alternate solutions.

Discussing ALTERNATE solutions = DEFEATIST according to MR. Collins.

Agreed... I was never a part of the GOP. I am not required to be to vote for Ron Paul for president, therefore, why should I try to change an absolutely corrupt and evil organization from within. I want no part of the RNC or the GOP.

I say just keep doing what we are doing. Slowly growing support, slowly winning more and more state/county positions, slowing waking people up to the fact that the corrupt 2 party system does not work. This can all be done in the various groups we belong to. Some will choose to fight the war on the GOP front and change from within. That is fantastic! But do not dish out negative reps and belittle those of us who refuse to sign on the dotted line to affiliate ourselves with what can only be decribed as "the enemy".

 

[twomp]

Agreed... I was never a part of the GOP. I am not required to be to vote for Ron Paul for president, therefore, why should I try to change an absolutely corrupt and evil organization from within. I want no part of the RNC or the GOP.

I say just keep doing what we are doing. Slowly growing support, slowly winning more and more state/county positions, slowing waking people up to the fact that the corrupt 2 party system does not work. This can all be done in the various groups we belong to. Some will choose to fight the war on the GOP front and change from within. That is fantastic! But do not dish out negative reps and belittle those of us who refuse to sign on the dotted line to affiliate ourselves with what can only be decribed as "the enemy".

Exactly what I meant but I am not as good at expressing it! I think it's awesome the way that some of you folks here have made gains in the GOP and I am NOT one to say stop doing it. I just want to explore a different avenue for liberty. There are no libertarians in office right now, I'd like to see that change. There are no Ron Paul Democrats now, I'd like to see that change.

Dr. Paul may have joined the Republican Party because he agrees with them more but he draws a lot of Democrats and Independents because his ideology is pure and it makes sense. The GOP doesn't have a trademark on liberty and I'd like to see "Ron Paul Democrats" and "Ron Paul Independents" in office.

 

[Maltheus]

What did Holdridge do?

As a little background, we live in the largest/most influential republican county in the state. Matt stayed up in liberal Denver and never once paid us a visit. When he chose our slate, he told us that he was going to run nothing but Santorum/Romney supporters in our congressional district. We had a really large active group, at the time, and people were all threatening to drop out over it. So we decided to run our own slate. Matt wasn't happy about it, but he seemed to resign himself to it. We even invited him up, when we elected our slate (in front of 60 witnesses), let him speak, and even offered up half our slate slots to him, to which he said, "no, you guys choose." After we voted, many people went up to him and asked if he would interfere and if he was ok with the slate. He assured each person that he wouldn't and would work to support us.

Then came the convention. We were attacked from every angle. He had told his Denver folk, that we did this without his knowledge and even had people follow us around, saying that we were secretly working with Romney. Ironically enough, on our conference calls, Matt even said that he was looking for people who might be willing to vote for Romney, and that's precisely what he got (as the two people on his slate did). The two true Ron Paulers on our slate, got barely edged out and were only alternates, as a result. So it was especially insulting for him to do this. Not to mention we sunk a good deal of money into campaign supplies for our people.

Afterwards, he was bragging that the strategy paid off, citing the four delegates we got as an example. We in fact only got two alternates, who he tried to sabotage. The two he got, hated Ron Paul. It soured a lot of people in the grassroots, and Matt would probably have gotten his ass kicked if he didn't flee from the convention in fear.

 

[jllundqu]

Exactly what I meant but I am not as good at expressing it! I think it's awesome the way that some of you folks here have made gains in the GOP and I am NOT one to say stop doing it. I just want to explore a different avenue for liberty. There are no libertarians in office right now, I'd like to see that change. There are no Ron Paul Democrats now, I'd like to see that change.

Dr. Paul may have joined the Republican Party because he agrees with them more but he draws a lot of Democrats and Independents because his ideology is pure and it makes sense. The GOP doesn't have a trademark on liberty and I'd like to see "Ron Paul Democrats" and "Ron Paul Independents" in office.

Word..... Word..... +rep

 

[CaptLouAlbano]

By having more liberty supporters show up and be involved in the Republican party.

Matt you have been 1000% correct throughout this thread. But I do want to add to this statement for clarification.

Everyone who is able should go to the website of their county GOP and find out how to be a member of the committee. In most states it is an elected position, and it usually only takes a few hundred votes to win. You will burn up a lot of shoe leather, but if you have even the slightest ability to communicate to people and work hard you should be able to win.

Most county committees are made up of around 100 or so people, obviously the larger the population the larger the committee. But take a county with 100 committee persons for example. It only takes 51 persons and the liberty wing controls that county. It is just that simple. We have thousands of RP supporters across the country, 2 million voted for him. Heck if only 5% of those 2 million got themselves onto their local committee we would be in full control of every state and the national RNC. And it only takes a few hundred people voting for you to get the ball rolling.

Folks, this is not rocket science. It is a very simple numbers game. Run for committee, win the office and unite with other like-minded committee persons.

 

[Matt Collins]

There are no libertarians in office right now, I'd like to see that change. There are no Ron Paul Democrats now, I'd like to see that change.

That won't change for any signifigant amount for 2 reasons. 1- the LP doesn't have ballot access most places, and even if they do, they are not a viable organization in most places and 2- Ron Paul's ideas are largely based upon economics, thus leading to personal liberty, and obviously someone espousing Ron's economic ideas in the Democrat Party would be ejected PDQ. See Mark Clayton of Tennessee for that example.

 

[Matt Collins]

Discussing ALTERNATE solutions = DEFEATIST according to MR. Collins.

No, that is a dissenting opinion which is not the same as being a defeatist. Please learn the difference.

 

[Matt Collins]

why should I try to change an absolutely corrupt and evil organization from within.

Because that organization has undue influence over the government which enacts policies that negatively affect your life. It's in your benefit to see it put in the hands of liberty minded individuals.

 

[Smitty]

Political partisanship is for knotheads.

 

[Smitty]

I mean,...you know,..I could try to smooth it,..but cut it to the quick, political partisanship just gets in the way.

,...just like all this pro GOP crap is in the way.

Get past it.

 

[Occam's Banana]

Ye of little faith. Did you think it was going to be easy???????

Apparently, a lot of people were expecting a friendly competitive bake-off, with mutual compliments, recipe exchanges, and blue ribbons awarded to the sound of polite applause.

What they got was a pirate-ship battle, with lots of backstabbing, throat-cutting, strung-out entrails, and slippery decks slicked with blood.

Betty Crocker meets Blackbeard.