You don't win by quitting... (Ron is still a Republican)

[erowe1]

Ron just can't be happy with how this went down. He is holding his rage in check for his son. If Ron was just starting out politics today, I am pretty damn sure he wouldn't be a Republican. Not with how they treated him. It's so outrageous. What else could they do, give him a wedgie on national TV? That's about all they haven't done yet..

I highly doubt that he is at all outraged or surprised by any of this. He ran in this race knowing exactly what the GOP is like (and understand that the Democratic party is no different). And all in all, everything went the way he expected it to, if not better.

 

[Maltheus]

How does Ron doing that have anything at all to do with the message of toughing it out within the party?

It implies that Ron doesn't believe in that message anymore. Part of sticking it out with the party, means not walking away (mid-function) when something doesn't go your way. I suspect that he still wants people to stay in, for the sake of Rand, but that just seems like auto-pilot at this point. The facts on the ground have changed.

 

[erowe1]

It implies that Ron doesn't believe in that message anymore. Part of sticking it out with the party, means not walking away (mid-function) when something doesn't go your way.

What do you base these views on? I don't see any reason he should have felt some obligation to stay for the whole thing. He attended more of it this year than he did in 2008, and he didn't give up on politics then.

 

[Smitty]

The message has nothing to do with political parties.

 

[Maltheus]

What do you base these views on? I don't see any reason he should have felt some obligation to stay for the whole thing. He attended more of it this year than he did in 2008, and he didn't give up on politics then.

Didn't realize that about 2008. Just seems a little strange is all, especially when they're giving him a "tribute" and his son was about to speak. Whenever I've seen a delegate walk out on a convention, it's always been their way of saying "screw it, I'm done with the party." And considering this is his last function of this type, you'd figure he'd play it out, maybe meet once more with the delegates at the end.

 

[porchdog]

I dont think that you understand, we are not abandoning the GOP, we will continue making inroads when and where we can, they will never be rid of us. what we are suggesting is that as a protest vote, we all vote for Gary Johnson and test our strength, I sincerely hope for a mittens win by a very narrow margin, to that end I will stop dissuading the neocons from their appointed role, it makes us look bad and will not sway them anyway. should ogumby win due to our protest the backlash will be severe, I suggest stealth for the most part. and should we have the numbers to make a third party viable, perhaps a new direction could be considered at that time.

 

[Occam's Banana]

What was [...] the shift from the Whigs to the newly-fledged Republican Party in the mid-nineteenth century? A 'slide'? Well, the GOP is sliding into darkness right now, [...] [W]hy [is] trying to wash the taint off the GOP is a better course than building up the LP to replace it outright[?]

Matt didn't offer any reply to you on this (which, of course, was one of the points you were trying to make), so I'll butt in with some of my own musings.

Most of the members of the new-born Republican party were ex-Whigs (or their allies). Unfortunately, the LP just isn't very well-suited in ideological or practical (logistical, demographic, etc.) terms to serve as the heir to the GOP in the way that the GOP was heir to the Whigs.

But even if they were well-suited to doing so, and even if they succeeded, their doom would be to fall under the same taint as the GOP.

To the extent that the LP ever achieves electoral success (by replacing the GOP, e.g.), they will become just as corrupt as the GOP (or Dems).

This is the nature of politics. And since you're just going to end up there anyway (if the LP is successful), why not skip the all the labor & toil necessary to "lay the groundwork" and "build the party up" and just go with the already-existing GOP - with its already-existing institutional framework, "social credibility", etc.?

 

[Occam's Banana]

What do you base these views on?

A LOT of people around here imagine that they "know" what Ron Paul is thinking - or that they have sussed out RP's reasons for doing (or not doing) this, that or the other thing.

However, they have done no such thing. They are just projecting their own desires, fears, biases & attitudes onto Ron Paul.

The following is a perfect example of what I'm talking about:

Ron just can't be happy with how this went down. He is holding his rage in check for his son. If Ron was just starting out politics today, I am pretty damn sure he wouldn't be a Republican. Not with how they treated him. It's so outrageous. What else could they do, give him a wedgie on national TV? That's about all they haven't done yet..

 

[Indy Vidual]

If you want a reason to stay in the GOP, watch Rand's speech.
If you want a reason to build the LP, watch McCain, Condi, etc.

We can do both.
Remember, we took over in several states.

 

[bunklocoempire]

Never a bad idea:



Yet, one also has to be realistic about the msm.

When the market deems it profitable for msm/pop entertainment to deliver a true non-party but totally statist vs. libertarian kind of thing, the levee will break explode.

When this happens, the likes of Stewart and Colbert will become so yester-year. Man I miss 70's SNL.

Education is certainly the best for solid growth, but IMO, the greatest speed given to the liberty movement in America will come from underground and then pop culture -and TPTB will be right there waiting to co-opt it. (ala Ryan's AC/DC to Zeppelin tripe -I gagged when I heard that line)

Revolution is cool, it always has been. Resist. Resist as you know how, but resist.

 

[CaptLouAlbano]

The question I would have for the third party people is this: where are you going to find people to run for office that have a political/civic resume?

If you look at those who have won this year all of them have a decent resume. Here is what they did prior to winning this year:

Massie: County Judge
Bills: Teacher, State House
Amash: State House
Robinson: Pres of a non profit for 30 years, failed House bid
Koster: State Rep, failed House bid, County council

The point being that if you look across all House and Senate members you will see that the overwhelming majority have past political experience at the local and state level. And to even get elected at the local level, you do need to have some connections. That is why we don't see any LP folks winning at the federal level, and it has been 10 years since someone has won at the state level (albeit they were a hybrid candidate).

Within the GOP we have a lot of liberty-minded people that are already elected into office at the local and state level. Many of them are ready to make that next move up the ladder and go for a higher office. They already have a built in network of people to fuel their campaigns. Massie is a great example of that. He is one of us obviously, and used his local experience to propel him to a higher office. He just didn't materialize out of thin air.

So again my question is, where are you going to find these people that have the resume to run and win an election in your new party of in the LP? Because as history shows us, the LP has not been able to do so for decades. What plan do you all have that will make things any different?

 

[rideurlightning]

The GOP is finished after the thuggery that took place at the convention.

 

[Matt Collins]

The GOP is finished after the thuggery that took place at the convention.

They will likely lose in November, but the organization itself will continue, which is why it's imperative that we have as many liberty people in positions of power as possible between now and 2016.

 

[Carlybee]

The question I would have for the third party people is this: where are you going to find people to run for office that have a political/civic resume?

If you look at those who have won this year all of them have a decent resume. Here is what they did prior to winning this year:

Massie: County Judge
Bills: Teacher, State House
Amash: State House
Robinson: Pres of a non profit for 30 years, failed House bid
Koster: State Rep, failed House bid, County council

The point being that if you look across all House and Senate members you will see that the overwhelming majority have past political experience at the local and state level. And to even get elected at the local level, you do need to have some connections. That is why we don't see any LP folks winning at the federal level, and it has been 10 years since someone has won at the state level (albeit they were a hybrid candidate).

Within the GOP we have a lot of liberty-minded people that are already elected into office at the local and state level. Many of them are ready to make that next move up the ladder and go for a higher office. They already have a built in network of people to fuel their campaigns. Massie is a great example of that. He is one of us obviously, and used his local experience to propel him to a higher office. He just didn't materialize out of thin air.

So again my question is, where are you going to find these people that have the resume to run and win an election in your new party of in the LP? Because as history shows us, the LP has not been able to do so for decades. What plan do you all have that will make things any different?

One thing I have aways liked about the Libertarian party is they are all inclusive as to who can run. Unfortunately it has also resulted in candidates whose official pics were taken while wearing overalls in some cases. If they had a bit of an image makeover...as shallow as that sounds it would help. In the L party I think knowledge trumps resume.

 

[jmdrake]

Leaving the Republican Party is just what they want you to do; don't let them win!

Remember, Ron Paul stayed with the GOP after they kept shafting him, and he has become one of the most influential Republicans in history. Don't give in or wimp out, otherwise the establishment wins!


DEFEATISM

We will recover, formulate a plan, build our numbers, wait patiently, and then come back and beat them next time

Matt, you didn't get the memo. Ron Paul said on Bloomberg that the GOP "Is not my party".

http://www.bloomberg.com/video/ron-...-change-in-policy-8DAnnZ3rRTm0NVNFZJwYiQ.html

He also said that his appeal was among democrats and independents. "Those people want their freedom". Sure we should keep making strides in the GOP. For those of us who can stomach the GOP. Others need to be working other parties as well. The NWO doesn't have all of their eggs in one political basket and neither should we.

 

[jmdrake]

If you want a reason to stay in the GOP, watch Rand's speech.
If you want a reason to build the LP, watch McCain, Condi, etc.

We can do both.
Remember, we took over in several states.

+rep. The cat herding needs to stop.

 

[ninepointfive]

As individuals, we should all chose our own path - trying to fit people into a mold in the GOP reeks of central authority.

Get over it, Matt - people are going to do as they see fit, and they will be more effective that way.

 

[king_nothing_]

Matt, you didn't get the memo. Ron Paul said on Bloomberg that the GOP "Is not my party".

http://www.bloomberg.com/video/ron-...-change-in-policy-8DAnnZ3rRTm0NVNFZJwYiQ.html

Love it.

 

[No1butPaul]

Ron Paul just said today (Aug. 31) on Bloomberg:

It's not my party. I don't like politics at all.

EDIT: I see that was already said above! +rep jmdrake!

 

[Matt Collins]

Matt, you didn't get the memo. Ron Paul said on Bloomberg that the GOP "Is not my party".

Put in context, and given the tone of his voice, he meant he doesn't have ownership of the GOP, not that he doesn't belong to the GOP. He also said he is super pleased in the direction we are going (in terms of how we are changing the GOP).

Regarding the comments about appealing to Dems and Inds, again, that was obvious that he meant that our ideals are appealing to them, but that it brings people into the GOP. It's a winning position.