(WND) Hawaii guv can't find Obama birth certificate

Thr constitutional requirements are only as good as the government agencies that will uphold them. Unfortunatley, the state has been using the technique of nullification since the civil war for all sorts of constitutional provisions.

Also if people choose to lie up and down the government chain about obama natural birth, what could we really do? They are calling peoples bluff, pushing unconstitutional vagrancies a little farther. If the local hospital lies, the state agencies of hawaii lie, and the president lies about his birth status, then what can we really do? Sue? Ha, the courts will find in his favor.

I posit that any one of the foreign born dictators could sail over and just become president and the american people would do nothing.

I mean what can you do? They are just laughing at us. And we deserve it. Every bit.
 
But people could file all sorts of lawsuits challenging all sorts of presidential orders base on the belief that Obama is not eligible to be president.

You mean Executive Orders?
 
You mean Executive Orders?

I mean any order coming from the president. Yes that covers executive orders, but it also covers deployment orders. Or what about treaties Obama has negotiated? Are they really binding if he isn't really qualified to be president? It doesn't matter if he didn't sign a law, because bills can become law without the president's signature. But anything that requires official action by the president can be challenged. And if someone gets in legal trouble for not following some presidential directive of any sort, the validity of that order must be proven beyond a reasonable doubt. That means that the burden is then on Obama to prove his legitimacy beyond a reasonable doubt instead of the other way around. Obama can avoid the problem by always refusing to prosecute, but that would become impractical after awhile.
 
I mean any order coming from the president. Yes that covers executive orders, but it also covers deployment orders. Or what about treaties Obama has negotiated? Are they really binding if he isn't really qualified to be president? It doesn't matter if he didn't sign a law, because bills can become law without the president's signature. But anything that requires official action by the president can be challenged. And if someone gets in legal trouble for not following some presidential directive of any sort, the validity of that order must be proven beyond a reasonable doubt. That means that the burden is then on Obama to prove his legitimacy beyond a reasonable doubt instead of the other way around. Obama can avoid the problem by always refusing to prosecute, but that would become impractical after awhile.

Or he could deem said person a terrorist and have them executed.
 
Except there is evidence that he's not a natural born citizen. Maybe there's not enough evidence to "prove" it to you, but there is enough evidence for a reasonable judge to allow a lawsuit to go forward. You may not understand how the burden of proof works in these situations. Many people mistakenly think that all questions of law require a "beyond a reasonable doubt" burden of proof. That is not true. In civil cases the burden of proof is preponderance of the evidence. And sometimes the burden of proof shifts to the defendant.

For example, lets say if someone filed a civil lawsuit asking for a declaratory judgment that Obama is not a natural born citizen and hence not eligible to be president. The first thing that would happen is Obama's lawyers would file a motion to dismiss. Motions to dismiss are only supposed to be granted if there is no disputed fact or law that could possibly lead to the other side winning. The burden of proof is on the side making the motion (the defense side). If both sides agreed Obama's parents were Americans then the motion to dismiss would have to be granted because it wouldn't matter if he was born in Kenya or Hawaii. But since both of his parents weren't American, and due to the unique circumstances surrounding his birth (I posted that earlier), it's not a slam dunk case that he is America. Plus there are the statements by his grandmother that he was born in Kenya along with various newspaper accounts that he was born in Kenya to consider. During the motion to dismiss phase all evidence is looked at in the light most favorable to the non moving party. In other words any judge adjudicating this who actually followed the law would have to assume that grandma Obama wasn't lying or crazy and the newspaper reports were not made up. So it's very unlikely that such a case would be thrown out on motion to dismiss if not for the highly politically charged nature of the lawsuit. (Sometimes judges ignore the law for the sake of political expediency).

If a motion to dismiss fails then you go into something called "discovery". In other words each side gets to demand that the other side turn over everything and the other side must turn over everything unless it has a REALLY good reason not to do so. Simply saying "well other people don't have to turn over their birth certificates" is NOT a really good reason. Other people are not embroiled in a similar lawsuit under similar circumstances. Ask yourself this question. Why did Bill Clinton have to testify about whether or not he had sex with Monica Lewinski? People generally don't have to talk about their private sexual lives. The reason Clinton did was because that was material to the sexual harassment lawsuit. The same is true here. People generally don't have to turn over their birth certificates. But only if it is material to the lawsuit.

If Obama can prove that he's a natural born citizen without turning over his birth certificate than he shouldn't have to. But under the circumstances it doesn't appear to me that he can. There is a report that Obama's half sister, who was born in Indonesia, has a Hawaiian certificate of live birth just like Obama. If that's true and/or if it's generally true that you can get a certificate of live birth without being a natural born citizen then Obama has not proven himself to be one. So yes, under these circumstances Obama could, and possibly should have to turn over his birth certificate. That doesn't mean that every president has to turn over his birth certificate any more than every president should have to say whether or not they had sex with Monica Lewinski or anybody else. And it's not a race thing. (I know you haven't said that, but others have). If Jesse Jackson had been elected president this wouldn't have been an issue because both of his parents were citizens and his mom was not out of the country near the time of his birth.

One other thing to consider on burden of proof. Say if the person CHALLENGING Obama's birth is the defendant? That already happened with a U.S. soldier challenging his deployment to Afghanistan based on the assumption that Obama is not eligible to be president. What happened in that case? The soldiers order were changed mooting the case.

http://www.wnd.com/?pageId=104009

But people could file all sorts of lawsuits challenging all sorts of presidential orders base on the belief that Obama is not eligible to be president. If that happened at some point Obama would have to prove he legitimacy or risk becoming even less effective than he already is.

I hope this helps.

Great points. Even though erowe’s comments (which admits that being a natural born citizen is a prerequisite for being POTUS yet claims that Obama doesn’t have to prove that he qualifies) already seemed to be legally/constitutionally unsound, your points about the different burdens in civil lawsuits appears to refute them completely.
 
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" Democratic Gov. Neil Abercrombie will end his quest to prove President Barack Obama was born in Hawaii because it's against state law to release private documents, his office said Friday.

State Attorney General David Louie told the governor he can't disclose an individual's birth documentation without a person's consent, Abercrombie spokeswoman Donalyn Dela Cruz said."

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/storie...CATE?SITE=ALANN&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT
 
" Democratic Gov. Neil Abercrombie will end his quest to prove President Barack Obama was born in Hawaii because it's against state law to release private documents, his office said Friday.

State Attorney General David Louie told the governor he can't disclose an individual's birth documentation without a person's consent, Abercrombie spokeswoman Donalyn Dela Cruz said."

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/storie...CATE?SITE=ALANN&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT

church_lady.jpg

How Convenient!!!!!!

So....There is a birth certificate, but the govenor's office cannot find it, but the records office says there is a "notation" about it (probably written on a cocktail napkin), but according to state laws, the cocktail napkin cannot be disclosed without Obama's consent, which he will not give because the certificate really doesn't exist. Oh and the icing on the cake is that the new Gov. didn't know the state laws well enough before he started his "Non-Partisan Campaign to Save the Name of the Glorious Obama who is being Bullied."

Oh me.
 
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Government files motion to dismiss in lawsuit that alleges healthcare bill is unconstitutional on 15 separate counts including Obama's ineligibility.


Government files their motion to dismiss in Purpura et al. v. Sebelius et al.. The lawsuit was filed in the United States District Court for the District of New Jersey by Nicholas Purpura and Donald Laster of the Jersey Shore Tea Party Patriots and the New Jersey Tea Party Coalition. Other plaintiffs in the lawsuit include the Colts Neck Tea Party, Jersey Shore Tea Party Patriots, Jackson Tea Party Patriots, Bayshore Tea Party Group and Ocean County Citizens for Freedom. The lawsuit alleges the healthcare bill is unconstitutional on 15 separate counts including Obama's ineligibility.

http://obamareleaseyourrecords.blogspot.com/2011/01/government-files-motion-to-dismiss-in.html
 
At this point Obama should just authorize the release of the info and be done with it. The more that comes out casting doubt on the "official story" (once again), the worse it looks.
 
" Democratic Gov. Neil Abercrombie will end his quest to prove President Barack Obama was born in Hawaii because it's against state law to release private documents, his office said Friday.

State Attorney General David Louie told the governor he can't disclose an individual's birth documentation without a person's consent, Abercrombie spokeswoman Donalyn Dela Cruz said."

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/storie...CATE?SITE=ALANN&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT
Absolutely hilarious when I read about it this morning. He went from a hardline "I will put an end to this once and for all" to the typical "I've seen something written about it and that's good enough for me, so it should be good enough for you too."

Even as someone who doesn't really identify as a so-called "birther" (whatever that's supposed to entail), it's exceedingly obvious that they're trying very hard to hide something.
 
Yeah this is turning into a real circus. WTF about a year ago they were saying its there....I've seen it. Now the Govenor can't find it.....really.....how many freaking lies do we have to be told here?

Something is up, the idiot Governor probably did more harm by even trying this stunt.
 
Something is up, the idiot Governor probably did more harm by even trying this stunt.

Unless it's a rope-a-dope.

If the governor's being entirely honest, he can't honestly think he's helping his cause, which is to help Obama. Therefore, he's probably not being entirely honest.
 
Yeah this is turning into a real circus. WTF about a year ago they were saying its there....I've seen it. Now the Govenor can't find it.....really.....how many freaking lies do we have to be told here?

Something is up, the idiot Governor probably did more harm by even trying this stunt.

that is strange! this whole deal is getting laughable. Im no birther but this raises some flags lol.
 
He can just ask the Director of Health Services, who swears he saw it and examined it.

The Gov. knew this from the beginning. He just didn't like what he found out. I would also be interested in whether he has had any contact from the White House.
 
more news

Lawyers for the Hollister v Soetoro (Obama) case say Supremes broke rule by failing to respond to the recusal motion for Kagan and Sotomayor.

http://obamareleaseyourrecords.blogspot.com/2011/01/lawyers-for-colonel-hollister-v-soetoro.html


Evidence of a cover-up that DOS illegally destroyed Obama’s Mother’s passport application(s)

Here is the appeal to DOS for Obama’s mother’s passport and consular records. Many hours of research of Department of State and National Archive policies, procedures and history strongly suggests that the federal government agency illegally and intentionally destroyed Obama’s mothers 1965 passport application and possible prior applications in an attempt to cover up Obama’s birth story and whether he is a natural born citizen as required by the Constitution.

http://unlawfulpresident.com/?p=262

http://www.scribd.com/doc/47559872/...tment-Cover-Up-of-Obama-s-Birth-Story-1-19-11
 
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Local radio this am host claims that states making laws that demand the candidates comply with eligibility requirements would deprive us of an Obama second term. If a candidate is a citizen and properly documented then it shouldn't be a problem. If questions indicate a non-citizen status and candidate refuses to comply or can't comply then said candidate is out of luck, find a different career.

If I don't have documentation for a drivers license I am ineligible to drive. If I lack documentation to prove residency for a library card I am ineligible for services at the library. You cannot even play little league without proper documentation. No one will give us little people a pass on these issues just because we or our families need or want to reap the benefits without complying with the requirements.

Why should the person running for President be given a pass because a cabal of elitests have made a choice for their greater good and (s)he doesn't meet the eligibility requirements? Oh yeah, because they want us to believe we would be depriving the country of the great leader...:rolleyes:
 
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