(WND) Hawaii guv can't find Obama birth certificate

[HealthWyze]

The State could come out and officially verify, with stamps and seals and parades, that the Sky is Polka Dotted Purple too, but that doesn't make it so.

Absolutely. That's what makes this situation so troubling. There is really no way for us to check to see if he was born here, and know without a doubt that he was.

 

[tangent4ronpaul]

That it can't be found now is quite interesting considering that the guy that runs the vita records dept claimed to have personally seen it and vouched that it did exist.

uh hu...

-t

 

[Bruno]

That it can't be found now is quite interesting considering that the guy that runs the vita records dept claimed to have personally seen it and vouched that it did exist.

uh hu...

-t

Indeed. The governor could simply call him and say, "show me where you found it."

 

[qh4dotcom]

That it can't be found now is quite interesting considering that the guy that runs the vita records dept claimed to have personally seen it and vouched that it did exist.

uh hu...

-t

Something smells fishy here

 

[vita3]

I met Phil Berg & was not impressed. Seemed like a con-man.

 

[erowe1]

Until someone produces proof of Obama's being born outside the country, the birthers have nothing. The burden of proof is on them, not Obama. The lack of a birth certificate is nothing but the lack of a birth certificate. It isn't in itself positive evidence of anything.

 

[Bruno]

Until someone produces proof of Obama's being born outside the country, the birthers have nothing. The burden of proof is on them, not Obama. The lack of a birth certificate is nothing but the lack of a birth certificate. It isn't in itself positive evidence of anything.

Tell that to the Governor of Hawaii and Chris Matthews. They both believe he should show it. He has not provided anything that shows definitively he was born here, and has spent over a million dollars to stay out of court so he won't have to.

People aren't concerned about the legal burdon of proof. If I apply for a job and represent that I graduated from Yale with a 4.0, the burdon of proof is on me. I can't simply tell my employer I lost all proof of it, and they should then have to prove that I never attended.

I really don't care where the courts, the law, or anyone else believes the burdon of proof is. I believe it is on him. So that argument has no weight at all with me.

See, I'm looking at it from an exact opposite view. I am waiting to be convinced that he was born here on Aug. 4th. That hasn't been proven to me yet. Everyone wants me and others to prove he wasn't born here. That's like asking me to prove Santa Claus doesn't exist after being shown an "offical document" that he does. I want to have definitively proven to me that he does exist, before I am to believe it.

Who would verify it? I'm sure the free market could come up with a cross-section of impartial professionals we would all be comfortable with.

President Obama, prove to me and the world that you were born in this country. Release your long form birth certificate.

More of my position on that arugment in the original thread. http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showth...-and-for-all/page24&highlight=hawaii+governor

 

[tangent4ronpaul]

Tell that to the Governor of Hawaii and Chris Matthews. They both believe he should show it. He has not provided anything that shows definitively he was born here, and has spent over a million dollars to stay out of court so he won't have to.

It's not just his birth certificate. He spent tons of money making sure articles he wrote, his dissertation, school records, etc. would not be released.

Also, his OB should still be alive. Anyone find it odd that this person hasn't come forward?

-t

 

[erowe1]

Tell that to the Governor of Hawaii and Chris Matthews. They both believe he should show it. He has not provided anything that shows definitively he was born here, and has spent over a million dollars to stay out of court so he won't have to.

Even in court he wouldn't have to provide any such thing. Nor does it have to be the case that any such thing even exists at all. Having a birth certificate of any kind is not a prerequisite for being POTUS.

 

[Bruno]

Even in court he wouldn't have to provide any such thing. Nor does it have to be the case that any such thing even exists at all. Having a birth certificate of any kind is not a prerequisite for being POTUS.

I don't care about that. I already said that.

I really don't care where the courts, the law, or anyone else believes the burdon of proof is. I believe it is on him. So that argument has no weight at all with me.

Being a natural born citizen is a prerequisite. That has not been definitively proven, imo.

 

[jmdrake]

Even in court he wouldn't have to provide any such thing. Nor does it have to be the case that any such thing even exists at all. Having a birth certificate of any kind is not a prerequisite for being POTUS.

Being a natural born citizen is a prerequisite to being POTUS just like being over a certain age is a prerequisite. Let's say if there was some legitimate doubt as to whether Obama was old enough to be president. It would not be unreasonable for a court to demand proof of age. Same thing here. There is a disputable question of fact that could allow a court to require a B.C. where in other cases it would not. While some birthers do push the limits of sanity the "Under no circumstances could Obama be forced to show proof of where he was born" crowd pushes the limit as well.

 

[dannno]

Maybe they had bad recording practices during the time that he was born. Wouldn't surprise me because it is the government after all.

So then can you explain the motivation for that Health Minister or whoever a year or two ago came out and said that they personally viewed the long-form birth certificate and everything was in order? Were they lying, or did they lose it since then? Those are the only two options I can think of, and both of those options look really bad.

 

[erowe1]

I don't care about that. I already said that.

I really don't care where the courts, the law, or anyone else believes the burdon of proof is. I believe it is on him. So that argument has no weight at all with me.

Being a natural born citizen is a prerequisite. That has not been definitively proven, imo.

But he has not obligation to prove it to you or anyone else. So it doesn't matter if you're not satisfied. No matter what he did, even if he did produce a long form birth certificate with a doctor's signature, some people would still claim that he hasn't proven to their satisfaction that he was born here, which would be too bad for them, since proving to their satisfaction that he was born here is not his responsibility.

Being a natural born citizen is a prerequisite for being POTUS. Proving that he is to your satisfaction or anyone else's is not. No president ever had to prove such a thing to everyone's satisfaction, nor does the Constitution require it, nor would it be possible to do if it were required.

 

[jmdrake]

So then can you explain the motivation for that Health Minister or whoever a year or two ago came out and said that they personally viewed the long-form birth certificate and everything was in order? Were they lying, or did they lose it since then? Those are the only two options I can think of, and both of those options look really bad.

Hmmmmm...that raises another possibility of prosecuting the Health Minister for obstruction of justice. Sometimes you can't punish the crime but you can punish the cover up.

 

[dannno]

I met Phil Berg & was not impressed. Seemed like a con-man.

Ok, and Orly Tate is an idiot.. maybe these were essentially actors provided by the elite to represent the birther movement?

 

[erowe1]

Being a natural born citizen is a prerequisite to being POTUS just like being over a certain age is a prerequisite. Let's say if there was some legitimate doubt as to whether Obama was old enough to be president. It would not be unreasonable for a court to demand proof of age. Same thing here. There is a disputable question of fact that could allow a court to require a B.C. where in other cases it would not. While some birthers do push the limits of sanity the "Under no circumstances could Obama be forced to show proof of where he was born" crowd pushes the limit as well.

Do you think that if a natural born citizen who ran for president didn't have a birth certificate, all that person's opponents should have to do to prevent him from running would be to claim that they doubt he was born here, and then he'd be out of luck because he lacked a birth certificate?

 

[2young2vote]

So lets say he loses his second term and is no longer president. If, five or ten or even fifteen years later, it is proven that he was not born in the USA then what kind of punishment could he legally receive, what should he receive, and what will he receive? That is what is interesting to me. Because if he wasn't born in the USA then was he ever even technically/legally president? Could we have been a president-less country for the time that he was acting as president?

 

[Bruno]

But he has not obligation to prove it to you or anyone else. So it doesn't matter if you're not satisfied. No matter what he did, even if he did produce a long form birth certificate with a doctor's signature, some people would still claim that he hasn't proven to their satisfaction that he was born here, which would be too bad for them, since proving to their satisfaction that he was born here is not his responsibility.

Being a natural born citizen is a prerequisite for being POTUS. Proving that he is to your satisfaction or anyone else's is not. No president ever had to prove such a thing to everyone's satisfaction, nor does the Constitution require it, nor would it be possible to do if it were required.

Well, it matters to me if I'm not satisfied. And it matters to tens of millions of Americans, too.

Of course some will doubt it if he showed the long form (which supposedly exists, has been seen by one person, and yet he refuses to release it). Show it. Have it independently verified. And 90% of all the "birthers" will be convinced.

 

[torchbearer]

Do you think that if a natural born citizen who ran for president didn't have a birth certificate, all that person's opponents should have to do to prevent him from running would be to claim that they doubt he was born here, and then he'd be out of luck because he lacked a birth certificate?

the birth certificate is an affidavit of your birth, with doctor as a witness.
if you don't have one, you could still get your birth doctor to testify under oath/affidavit, or any attending physicians/nurses present at your birth could testify under oath to witnessing your birth.

 

[erowe1]

the birth certificate is an affidavit of your birth, with doctor as a witness.
if you don't have one, you could still get your birth doctor to testify under oath/affidavit, or any attending physicians/nurses present at your birth could testify under oath to witnessing your birth.

What if you couldn't do that? Would you be out of luck? I wonder how many of our 44 presidents could have found people who were present at their birth had that been demanded from them.