Why should we be able to illegally download music??

i suggest you create some original music and see how rich you get with everyone downloading it for free;) go tour like you said ,pay for your hotel rooms,pay for your roadies and all the other expenses,let me know when you make a profit:)
Unless you have a lot of money to invest it takes years to get to the point where you can tour successfully (also unless your manager has a great deal of clout).
 
If you do not, and someone takes the song, for whatever reason, it is called theft. Plain and simple.
WRONG!!!

Why is this such a hard concept to understand?!?!? :confused::mad:


Well how do you plan on doing that if you are stealing their product. It is simply laughable.
What's simply laughable are all of those who have fallen prey to the content industry marketing and brainwashing who think that copyright infringement is theft. :rolleyes:

Because what you fail to see is that without that original revenue from album sales. There will be no tours. There will be no t-shirts. There will be nothing.
That's incorrect. If a band builds a following they will eventually asked to get on a bigger tour.
 
Great list ..... But where's Metallica?

Did you notice the decline in Metallicas popularity when they tried to fight D/L during the Napster deal. They've never been the same band since. I think a lot of fans look at them differently because of that ordeal. I'd bet Metallica regrets taking the D/L issue as far as they did.

Actually, I think they took a huge slide downhill after Cliff Burton died. I don't know if they just lost their spirit, if Burton was their best musician (he wrote a LOT of their earlier songs, IMHO the best ones), or maybe it's just my own opinion.

Metallica is a good example of how fans got screwed over by the recording industry. Most fans bought all their records. Then they bought all their tapes when they came out on tape. Then they bought all their CD's when they came out on CD. At that point, Metallica held the record as the highest grossing band ever (and maybe still do... I don't know). Then they come out heavily against people downloading their music, when many of these people have already paid for the copyright on it 3 times. A lot of fans got pissed off at them, and they lost a lot of their following.

If somebody has already paid for the copyright on music by purchasing a record, tape, or CD, then it definitely isn't copyright infringement to download it. That much is very clear.
 
WRONG!!!

Why is this such a hard concept to understand?!?!? :confused::mad:

Because the TV and movie screens say that piracy of music or movies is the same as stealing a car. In other words... brainwashing.

PS - If anybody has a Porsche 911 Turbo, could you burn me a copy, or point me to a site where I could download one? :D
 
What, exactly, are you stealing?

Lost sales is not stealing. I had absolutely no intention of buying that CD I just downloaded. I downloaded it because it was there. Nobody lost a cent. Nobody is worse off. And now I am listening to and appreciating the artist's music. If they ever come to town, I will go to their show. Now the band has just profited 100 fold off this transaction of so-called "theft", I think the music industry is in fact stealing from the artists by being over protective of their work.


Sorry OP, I have no logical arguments for you. Downloading music is not theft. If I were putting out a CD, I would encourage people to make copies. I have known many bands who encourage people to make copies of their music so that they become more widely known and appreciated. This will get them bigger venues and larger revenues than anything they would get from sales of CDs.

Even if you don't want the product, to have a title of ownership you must purchase it lawfully. Just because I don't "want" a new DVD doesn't mean I can go to the walmart, slip it in my jacket, and walk out of the store without paying.

The notion that downloading isn't theft is complete bunk. If a good or product is put on the market by producers who only make there product available by purchasing it and you download it, you ARE stealing. There's no difference between digital music or a pair of socks or a car; you are attempting to gain possession of something with paying for the good or service.

Also, to the dense one that referred to "what the bands allowed." Guess what, buddy? The bands, most likely, don't have any say in what you can and can't download for free. Most of those bands are signed to big labels. To be signed to those big labels and have all the perks that come with it, they most likely signed a contract. In that contract, there are most likely terms as to how they may distribute the music they create. This is completely lawful. It's evident you don't know what in the hell you're talking about. What the band allows my ass.

So far, none of you advocating downloading have illustrated why it is legal to take a good created by someone else without paying for it, whether you want or intend to use it or not.
 
Last edited:
Even if you don't want the product, to have a title of ownership you must purchase it lawfully. Just because I don't "want" a new DVD doesn't mean I can go to the walmart, slip it in my jacket, and walk out of the store without paying.

The notion that downloading isn't theft is complete bunk. If a good or product is put on the market by producers who only make there product available by purchasing it and you download it, you ARE stealing. There's no difference between digital music or a pair of socks or a car; you are attempting to gain possession of something with paying for the good or service.

If you steal a dvd from Walmart, you are depriving Walmart of those goods, which they paid for themselves, and paid for transports costs, storage costs, and wage costs of staff for transaction of money in exchange for those goods, etc. Not to mention the creators of the dvd, etc.

If you download a dvd, no one is deprived of any goods, you wouldn't pay for the DVD even if you couldn't download it, so by downloading it no one is losing any money.
 
If you steal a dvd from Walmart, you are depriving Walmart of those goods, which they paid for themselves, and paid for transports costs, storage costs, and wage costs of staff for transaction of money in exchange for those goods, etc. Not to mention the creators of the dvd, etc.

If you download a dvd, no one is deprived of any goods, you wouldn't pay for the DVD even if you couldn't download it, so by downloading it no one is losing any money.

Your logic is completely flawed.

Walmart sells the DVD with a markup to make a profit. The company who sold Walmart the DVD still makes money on each individual copy. Walmart purchased the DVD from the supplier and obtained ownership to the DVD. If you steal a DVD by downloading it, you did not pay the company for their goods, which you must do in any physical business transaction to obtain ownership title to the DVD.

And, the idea that "no one is losing money" is total bullshit. Just because you wouldn't pay for the DVD in a store doesn't mean you have the right to someone else's property. That's not an excuse to download it. Fact of the matter is to have that product in your possession, digital or physical, you must pay for the title of ownership.

Those of you advocating such downloading have no concept of property rights. That much is evident.
 
your logic is completely flawed.

Walmart sells the dvd with a markup to make a profit. The company who sold walmart the dvd still makes money on each individual copy. Walmart purchased the dvd from the supplier and obtained ownership to the dvd. If you steal a dvd by downloading it, you did not pay the company for their goods, which you must do in any physical business transaction to obtain ownership title to the dvd.

And, the idea that "no one is losing money" is total bullshit. Just because you wouldn't pay for the dvd in a store doesn't mean you have the right to someone else's property. That's not an excuse to download it. Fact of the matter is to have that product in your possession, digital or physical, you must pay for the title of ownership.

Those of you advocating such downloading have no concept of property rights. That much is evident.

qft
 
Walmart sells the DVD with a markup to make a profit. The company who sold Walmart the DVD still makes money on each individual copy. Walmart purchased the DVD from the supplier and obtained ownership to the DVD.
Stealing a DVD from WalMart is stealing a physical object. The disc belongs to WalMart, until you pay for it.

If you download a copy of the movie on the DVD, you are not stealing anything from WalMart.

Those of you advocating such downloading have no concept of property rights. That much is evident.
What do you define as property? I'd define property as being physical, as in being made up of atoms. If I download something, I do not take the atoms that are owned by others without their consent. I'm getting a copy of information from someone else.
 
If you steal a DVD by downloading it, you did not pay the company for their goods, which you must do in any physical business transaction to obtain ownership title to the DVD.
But we are not talking about physical business transactions. We are talking about intellectual "property".

That's where you keep getting lost.

Just because you wouldn't pay for the DVD in a store doesn't mean you have the right to someone else's property.
All rights are reserved to the People / States unless otherwise stated. As a copyright holder you have the exclusive right for copying, distribution, etc. As average joe you do not have a right to copy or distribute someone else's work. But that does not exclude the ability to possess it.



Fact of the matter is to have that product in your possession, digital or physical, you must pay for the title of ownership.
That's not what the law says. You must pay if you are going to copy, distribute, transmit, etc. There is no law about possession or attaining the material so long as you don't make a copy, transmit, or distribute it. Please realize this.



Those of you advocating such downloading have no concept of property rights.
The copy right was violated by the person who shares it, uploads it, distributes it, or transmits it without the copyright owners consent.
 
Even if you don't want the product, to have a title of ownership you must purchase it lawfully.
Incorrect. Why? Because you don't "own" the music or copyrighted material; you possess it. The difference is important.

There are no laws about possession, only about restricting the ability to make copies etc.





The notion that downloading isn't theft is complete bunk.
Please cite legal sources to back up your claim.


If a good or product is put on the market by producers who only make there product available by purchasing it and you download it, you ARE stealing.
The law (and reality) disagrees with you.


There's no difference between digital music or a pair of socks or a car; you are attempting to gain possession of something with paying for the good or service.
Absolutely incorrect.

When you download a song for free a copy of it is made. The original owner is deprived of nothing. When you shoplift a pair of socks, the store is out the cost of the socks.

Please try and think through this logically instead of emotionally.

So far, none of you advocating downloading have illustrated why it is legal to take a good created by someone else without paying for it, whether you want or intend to use it or not.
Actually it is you who must prove that it's illegal to download music. I would love to watch you attempt this :rolleyes:
 
Even if you don't want the product, to have a title of ownership you must purchase it lawfully. Just because I don't "want" a new DVD doesn't mean I can go to the walmart, slip it in my jacket, and walk out of the store without paying.

The notion that downloading isn't theft is complete bunk. If a good or product is put on the market by producers who only make there product available by purchasing it and you download it, you ARE stealing. There's no difference between digital music or a pair of socks or a car; you are attempting to gain possession of something with paying for the good or service.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright_infringement
Comparison to theft

Further information: Dowling v. United States (1985)

Copyright infringement is often equated with theft, for instance in the title of the No Electronic Theft Act of 1997, but differs in certain respects.

Courts have distinguished between copyright infringement and theft, holding, for instance, in Dowling v. United States (1985) that bootleg phonorecords did not (for the purpose of the case) constitute stolen property, and writing:

interference with copyright does not easily equate with theft, conversion, or fraud. The Copyright Act even employs a separate term of art to define one who misappropriates a copyright: ... 'an infringer of the copyright.' ...

The infringer invades a statutorily defined province guaranteed to the copyright holder alone. But he does not assume physical control over the copyright; nor does he wholly deprive its owner of its use. While one may colloquially link infringement with some general notion of wrongful appropriation, infringement plainly implicates a more complex set of property interests than does run-of-the-mill theft, conversion, or fraud.
—Dowling v. United States, 473 U.S. 207, pp. 217–218

The key distinction generally drawn, as indicated above, is that while copyright infringement may (or may not) cause economic loss to the copyright holder, as theft does, it does not appropriate a physical object, nor deprive the copyright holder of the use of the copyright. That information can be replicated without destroying an original is an old observation,[42] and a cornerstone of intellectual property law. In economic terms, information is not an exclusive good; this has led some to argue that it is very different in character, and that laws for physical property and intellectual property should be very different.[43]

And a quote from my favorite Founding Father:
"If nature has made any one thing less susceptible than all others of exclusive property, it is the action of the thinking power called an idea, which an individual may exclusively possess as long as he keeps it to himself; but the moment it is divulged, it forces itself into the possession of every one, and the receiver cannot dispossess himself of it. Its peculiar character, too, is that no one possesses the less, because every other possesses the whole of it. He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me."
-Thomas Jefferson

Also, to the dense one that referred to "what the bands allowed." Guess what, buddy? The bands, most likely, don't have any say in what you can and can't download for free. Most of those bands are signed to big labels. To be signed to those big labels and have all the perks that come with it, they most likely signed a contract. In that contract, there are most likely terms as to how they may distribute the music they create. This is completely lawful. It's evident you don't know what in the hell you're talking about. What the band allows my ass.

Are you referring to me, and the list of bands that allow taping and trading and downloading of live shows? If so, read and learn:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jam_band

Taping

Jam bands often allow their fans to make tapes or recordings of their live shows, a practice which many other musical genres call "illegal bootlegging". The Grateful Dead encouraged this practice, which helped to create a thriving scene around the collecting and trading of recordings of Grateful Dead live performances. Most of the live shows on the Grateful Dead's 30 years of touring were recorded. It was probably the trading of recordings of Grateful Dead shows which built the band's fan base. The bands sold "taper" tickets for a taper's section which had a soundboard line-out for the tapers to record from. This type of encouragement has spread to nearly all of the jam bands. Some jam band enthusiasts argue that if a band does not allow fans to tape their live shows, this band is not actually a jam band in the Grateful Dead tradition.

Fans trade recordings and collect recordings of different live shows because improvisational jam bands play their songs differently at each performance. Fans can collect various versions of their favorite songs. They can keep track of how many times a specific song has been played, and thus increase the momentousness of a rare song being dusted off and played live, or played for the first time.[21] Some bands play with this phenomena by throwing short little "teases" into their sets. Playing, for example, a few bars of a famous cover song or hinting at a popular jam and then either never getting around to playing the song, or coming back to it after an extended jam. The use of segues to blend strings of songs together is another mark of a jam band, and one which makes for treasured tapes.[22]

Music downloading

By the 2000s, as internet downloading of MP3 music files became common, downloading of jam band songs became an extension of the cassette taping trend. Archived jam band downloads are available at various websites, the most prominent ones being etree and the Live Music Archive, which is part of the Internet Archive.

More bands have been distributing their latest shows online. Bands such as Phish,Widespread Panic, The String Cheese Incident, Gov't Mule, ekoostik hookah, Umphrey's McGee, and The Disco Biscuits have been offering digital downloads within weeks of concerts. The Grateful Dead have begun to offer online, digital download only, live releases from their archives as well. While there is some obvious conflict of interest between the "free and open trading of shows" and artists packaging and selling the same shows for money, a dynamic equilibrium has been reached where die-hards trade and others are happy to pay for the convenience.

Some venues offer kiosks where fans may purchase a digital recording of the concert and download it to a USB flash drive or another portable digital storage device. Some bands, including The Allman Brothers, offer "Instant Lives", which are concert recordings made available for purchase on Compact Disc shortly after the show ends. Most major music festivals also offer digital live recordings at the event. Even though these shows are freely traded in digital format, "official" versions are still bought by fans for the graphics, liner notes, and packaging.

So far, none of you advocating downloading have illustrated why it is legal to take a good created by someone else without paying for it, whether you want or intend to use it or not.

It's not legal to make copies of copyrighted material unless the copyright owner gives permission. However, it was only punishable by civil action up until 1997 when the "No Electronic Theft Act" was passed, and civil suits were only successful if somebody made a profit off of somebody else's copyrighted material.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NET_Act

The United States No Electronic Theft Act (NET Act), a federal law passed in 1997, provides for criminal prosecution of individuals who engage in copyright infringement, even when there is no monetary profit or commercial benefit from the infringement. Maximum penalties can be five years in prison and up to $250,000 in fines. The NET Act also raised statutory damages by 50%.


Prior to the enactment of the NET Act in 1997, copyright infringement for a non-commercial purpose was apparently not punishable by criminal prosecution, although non-commercial infringers could be sued in a civil action by the copyright holder to recover damages. At that time, criminal prosecutions under the copyright act were possible only when the infringer derived a commercial benefit from his or her actions. This state of affairs was underscored by the unsuccessful 1994 prosecution of David LaMacchia, then a student at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, for allegedly facilitating massive copyright infringement as a hobby, without any commercial motive. The court's dismissal of United States v. LaMacchia suggested that then-existing criminal law simply did not apply to non-commercial infringements (a state of affairs which became known as the "LaMacchia Loophole"). The court suggested that Congress could act to make some non-commercial infringements a crime, and Congress acted on that suggestion in the NET Act.

The NET Act amends the definition of "commercial advantage or private financial gain" to include the exchange of copies of copyrighted works even if no money changes hands and specifies penalties of up to five years in prison and up to $250,000 in fines. It also creates a threshold for criminal liability even where the infringer neither obtained nor expected to obtain anything of value for the infringement.

The act raised the levels of statutory damages in civil cases to $750 - $30,000 per work (and up to $150,000 per work in case of willful infringement).
 
But we are not talking about physical business transactions. We are talking about intellectual "property".

That's where you keep getting lost.

All rights are reserved to the People / States unless otherwise stated. As a copyright holder you have the exclusive right for copying, distribution, etc. As average joe you do not have a right to copy or distribute someone else's work. But that does not exclude the ability to possess it.



That's not what the law says. You must pay if you are going to copy, distribute, transmit, etc. There is no law about possession or attaining the material so long as you don't make a copy, transmit, or distribute it. Please realize this.



The copy right was violated by the person who shares it, uploads it, distributes it, or transmits it without the copyright owners consent.

I'll simplify this for you. A film or piece of music is not simply intellectual property. All of the effort, work, and money spent on that film is part of the product. The product is not simply the disc, and you guys know it. Don't try to use that argument as it is flawed. See my prior post.

And, Matt, it seems like you've been reading between the lines. However, you seem to have forgotten to read the large print. PROPERTY RIGHTS is the name of the game. There IS law about possession. You do not have the right to possess someone else's property.

You guys really should brush up on property rights before trying to argue this. Property rights and copywright law are different, but can go hand in hand such as in a matter like this. Just because copywright laws apply doesn't mean typical property law doesn't.

Music and film, digital or physical, is property and all relevant laws apply.

Lordy...it's like every day I realize people on this forum that preach civil liberties and rights don't truly understand them :mad:
 
Your logic is completely flawed.

Walmart sells the DVD with a markup to make a profit. The company who sold Walmart the DVD still makes money on each individual copy. Walmart purchased the DVD from the supplier and obtained ownership to the DVD. If you steal a DVD by downloading it, you did not pay the company for their goods, which you must do in any physical business transaction to obtain ownership title to the DVD.

And, the idea that "no one is losing money" is total bullshit. Just because you wouldn't pay for the DVD in a store doesn't mean you have the right to someone else's property. That's not an excuse to download it. Fact of the matter is to have that product in your possession, digital or physical, you must pay for the title of ownership.

Those of you advocating such downloading have no concept of property rights. That much is evident.

My main point was that there is a very big difference to x and y, unlike what you stated. I do not have to pay anyone anything to have ownership of music, besides which it is impossible to enforce - I don't think downloading music is even against the law anyway - distributing it or buying/renting something and then copying it and distributing it for profit is against the law. Simply downloading something I do not think is actually illegal. Besides which, I don't think it should be if it is, not that it makes any difference because as I said, it is impossible to enforce. If it were possible to make it impossible to download music, I would have a voice recorder, or something similar and record music off the radio if I really wanted to, and that really is impossible to stop. The bottom line is that no matter what I do, the store owning the music or dvd will not see any money from me - no one is being deprived of any money/profit or physical goods, which is the definition of theft in my opinion.
 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright_infringement
Comparison to theft

Further information: Dowling v. United States (1985)

Copyright infringement is often equated with theft, for instance in the title of the No Electronic Theft Act of 1997, but differs in certain respects.

Courts have distinguished between copyright infringement and theft, holding, for instance, in Dowling v. United States (1985) that bootleg phonorecords did not (for the purpose of the case) constitute stolen property, and writing:

interference with copyright does not easily equate with theft, conversion, or fraud. The Copyright Act even employs a separate term of art to define one who misappropriates a copyright: ... 'an infringer of the copyright.' ...

The infringer invades a statutorily defined province guaranteed to the copyright holder alone. But he does not assume physical control over the copyright; nor does he wholly deprive its owner of its use. While one may colloquially link infringement with some general notion of wrongful appropriation, infringement plainly implicates a more complex set of property interests than does run-of-the-mill theft, conversion, or fraud.
—Dowling v. United States, 473 U.S. 207, pp. 217–218

The key distinction generally drawn, as indicated above, is that while copyright infringement may (or may not) cause economic loss to the copyright holder, as theft does, it does not appropriate a physical object, nor deprive the copyright holder of the use of the copyright. That information can be replicated without destroying an original is an old observation,[42] and a cornerstone of intellectual property law. In economic terms, information is not an exclusive good; this has led some to argue that it is very different in character, and that laws for physical property and intellectual property should be very different.[43]

And a quote from my favorite Founding Father:
"If nature has made any one thing less susceptible than all others of exclusive property, it is the action of the thinking power called an idea, which an individual may exclusively possess as long as he keeps it to himself; but the moment it is divulged, it forces itself into the possession of every one, and the receiver cannot dispossess himself of it. Its peculiar character, too, is that no one possesses the less, because every other possesses the whole of it. He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me."
-Thomas Jefferson



Are you referring to me, and the list of bands that allow taping and trading and downloading of live shows? If so, read and learn:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jam_band

Taping

Jam bands often allow their fans to make tapes or recordings of their live shows, a practice which many other musical genres call "illegal bootlegging". The Grateful Dead encouraged this practice, which helped to create a thriving scene around the collecting and trading of recordings of Grateful Dead live performances. Most of the live shows on the Grateful Dead's 30 years of touring were recorded. It was probably the trading of recordings of Grateful Dead shows which built the band's fan base. The bands sold "taper" tickets for a taper's section which had a soundboard line-out for the tapers to record from. This type of encouragement has spread to nearly all of the jam bands. Some jam band enthusiasts argue that if a band does not allow fans to tape their live shows, this band is not actually a jam band in the Grateful Dead tradition.

Fans trade recordings and collect recordings of different live shows because improvisational jam bands play their songs differently at each performance. Fans can collect various versions of their favorite songs. They can keep track of how many times a specific song has been played, and thus increase the momentousness of a rare song being dusted off and played live, or played for the first time.[21] Some bands play with this phenomena by throwing short little "teases" into their sets. Playing, for example, a few bars of a famous cover song or hinting at a popular jam and then either never getting around to playing the song, or coming back to it after an extended jam. The use of segues to blend strings of songs together is another mark of a jam band, and one which makes for treasured tapes.[22]

Music downloading

By the 2000s, as internet downloading of MP3 music files became common, downloading of jam band songs became an extension of the cassette taping trend. Archived jam band downloads are available at various websites, the most prominent ones being etree and the Live Music Archive, which is part of the Internet Archive.

More bands have been distributing their latest shows online. Bands such as Phish,Widespread Panic, The String Cheese Incident, Gov't Mule, ekoostik hookah, Umphrey's McGee, and The Disco Biscuits have been offering digital downloads within weeks of concerts. The Grateful Dead have begun to offer online, digital download only, live releases from their archives as well. While there is some obvious conflict of interest between the "free and open trading of shows" and artists packaging and selling the same shows for money, a dynamic equilibrium has been reached where die-hards trade and others are happy to pay for the convenience.

Some venues offer kiosks where fans may purchase a digital recording of the concert and download it to a USB flash drive or another portable digital storage device. Some bands, including The Allman Brothers, offer "Instant Lives", which are concert recordings made available for purchase on Compact Disc shortly after the show ends. Most major music festivals also offer digital live recordings at the event. Even though these shows are freely traded in digital format, "official" versions are still bought by fans for the graphics, liner notes, and packaging.



It's not legal to make copies of copyrighted material unless the copyright owner gives permission. However, it was only punishable by civil action up until 1997 when the "No Electronic Theft Act" was passed, and civil suits were only successful if somebody made a profit off of somebody else's copyrighted material.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NET_Act

The United States No Electronic Theft Act (NET Act), a federal law passed in 1997, provides for criminal prosecution of individuals who engage in copyright infringement, even when there is no monetary profit or commercial benefit from the infringement. Maximum penalties can be five years in prison and up to $250,000 in fines. The NET Act also raised statutory damages by 50%.


Prior to the enactment of the NET Act in 1997, copyright infringement for a non-commercial purpose was apparently not punishable by criminal prosecution, although non-commercial infringers could be sued in a civil action by the copyright holder to recover damages. At that time, criminal prosecutions under the copyright act were possible only when the infringer derived a commercial benefit from his or her actions. This state of affairs was underscored by the unsuccessful 1994 prosecution of David LaMacchia, then a student at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, for allegedly facilitating massive copyright infringement as a hobby, without any commercial motive. The court's dismissal of United States v. LaMacchia suggested that then-existing criminal law simply did not apply to non-commercial infringements (a state of affairs which became known as the "LaMacchia Loophole"). The court suggested that Congress could act to make some non-commercial infringements a crime, and Congress acted on that suggestion in the NET Act.

The NET Act amends the definition of "commercial advantage or private financial gain" to include the exchange of copies of copyrighted works even if no money changes hands and specifies penalties of up to five years in prison and up to $250,000 in fines. It also creates a threshold for criminal liability even where the infringer neither obtained nor expected to obtain anything of value for the infringement.

The act raised the levels of statutory damages in civil cases to $750 - $30,000 per work (and up to $150,000 per work in case of willful infringement).

I can run this down for you very simply. That court case doesn't refer to property rights. I stated in an earlier post that law in regard to copyright and property are different, but can go hand in hand like with digital music and film. You guys overlook property rights.

And, like I said in an earlier post, what the band can and cannot offer for free depends on their contract with their label. Even if, for example, Guns and Roses wanted to release all of their tracks for free, I'm sure there are clauses in their contract with their label prohibiting them from doing so. When you sign a contract like that, you're in much more than the business of making music. It will vary by contract, but rest assured that in most cases the band doesn't have the say on what music they can and can't release. You're delusional if you think this....the livelihood of the label depends on being able to sell the product (music) to turn a profit. You better bet that's all addressed in the contract.

And, again, property rights and copyrights aren't the same thing. You guys can't seem to distinguish between them.
 
Last edited:
My main point was that there is a very big difference to x and y, unlike what you stated. I do not have to pay anyone anything to have ownership of music, besides which it is impossible to enforce - I don't think downloading music is even against the law anyway - distributing it or buying/renting something and then copying it and distributing it for profit is against the law. Simply downloading something I do not think is actually illegal. Besides which, I don't think it should be if it is, not that it makes any difference because as I said, it is impossible to enforce. If it were possible to make it impossible to download music, I would have a voice recorder, or something similar and record music off the radio if I really wanted to, and that really is impossible to stop. The bottom line is that no matter what I do, the store owning the music or dvd will not see any money from me - no one is being deprived of any money/profit or physical goods, which is the definition of theft in my opinion.

It's illegal because you are attempting to gain title to someone else's property. It doesn't matter if you are selling it for a profit or not. You don't have the right to another's person's property. What's so hard to understand? :confused:

Again, guys, please look up property rights and copyrights. They are completely and totally different.
 
Last edited:
Back
Top