Why should we be able to illegally download music??

[Matt Collins]

Serious question that I really don't know the answer to... according to copyright law would that be illegal? They put the song on youtube so that people can download it to their computer (even if it's streaming, it's still downloading to your computer, and it saves it somewhere even if it's just saved in cache). If it is illegal, at what point does it become illegal? Ripping the audio from the youtube file? Converting to mp3? Saving to hard drive, cd, or mp3 player?

At this point it gets very grey. Timeshifting is allowed (see Sony v BetaMax). That means recording something that has been broadcast or transmitted for later personal playback is indeed allowed as a fair use defense. But you do not have the right to repost that on the Net, give it to all of your friends, etc.

I'm not saying that downloading copyrighted music when the owner hasn't given permission is legal or moral.

It is neither unlawful nor is it a moral issue. Uploading or sharing / distributing however is an infringement upon copyright.

These bands give permission to download and listen and give copies to other people, but using them while dj'ing may be another issue. You may have to contact the band and get permission for that, but I'd guess they'd probably ok it.

Typically the venue will be registered with BMI, ASCAP, and SESAC with blanket licenses so that they can have live or recorded music performed in their venue.

 

[TonySutton]

sounds good,but you have decided to share your info.
lets just say you do not share and all 3 of you work hard and then all of a sudden all your patterns and ideas are online and free.

Actually the patterns and tutorials ARE available online for free. I earn return business on the quality and affordable pricing.

 

[AutoDas]

That sucks, and it's definitely copyright infringement. There's definitely a down side to everybody having the ability to duplicate media so easily. I'm a web designer, and I've experienced that end of it as well. The worst is when you have somebody using your design without your permission, and they live in some other country that doesn't even have any copyright laws. There's not really anything you can do about it.

Isn't the designer defrauding the customer saying they made the design?

 

[speciallyblend]

Actually the patterns and tutorials ARE available online for free. I earn return business on the quality and affordable pricing.

that is your choice. this is not the issue though. the issue is taking peoples plans or stuff for free when they have not allowed it!!

 

[speciallyblend]

The current #1 itunes song appears to be "My Life Would Suck Without You" by Kelly Clarkson.

Here it is available for free download from the Kelly Clarkson Official Youtube Channel:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h09_1qdkFIA

When people refer to illegally downloading music, they are usually referring to mp3 files. However, there it is, made available for free by the artist. It would take me about 5 minutes to download the youtube file, rip the audio from it, convert to mp3, and copy it to an mp3 player or cd.

Serious question that I really don't know the answer to... according to copyright law would that be illegal? They put the song on youtube so that people can download it to their computer (even if it's streaming, it's still downloading to your computer, and it saves it somewhere even if it's just saved in cache). If it is illegal, at what point does it become illegal? Ripping the audio from the youtube file? Converting to mp3? Saving to hard drive, cd, or mp3 player?

This isn't a moral or legal dilemma I often run into. As I said earlier in this thread, almost 100% of the music I listen to comes from etree.org or furthurnet.org, where the artists all give permission to record and share all their live shows. This is just like how the Grateful Dead allowed taping and tape trading... in fact, there are over 6000 Grateful Dead shows available for download.

I'd guess that the Grateful Dead made more money selling merchandise than they ever did selling albums. Maybe not, I don't know for sure, but I do know that I see a lot more Grateful Dead shirts than I hear them on the radio. I don't know if you've ever been to a show where the band allows taping, but people go there for a lot more than just the music... it's a loving, happy, sharing experience. The bands are happy to share their music, and the people are happy to support them by buying their merchandise and music, and spreading good reviews of their experience by word of mouth.

Commercial music through a recording company has marketing via radio, music videos on TV, certain internet technologies, and other promotions. A new band has a (slim) chance of making it big this way, but it's like making a deal with the devil. They have to do everything the recording company says, and in the process a musician can lose some of their soul. I'd bet there's a lot of musicians that would love to let people tape their concerts, but can't because of their contract with the recording company.

I'm not saying that downloading copyrighted music when the owner hasn't given permission is legal or moral. I'm just saying there's another way, and it's a hell of a lot more joyful and fun (to me and most of the people I hang out with anyway). Check out jambase.com... there's probably an awesome concert coming up that you don't even know about because it isn't promoted on TV or radio. And a few days later you might even be able to download a live recording of the concert you just went to.

To any bands that may be reading... you don't have to sign a contract with the devil. Technology is rapidly changing the industry. If you're good, you can make it without a record deal. You can enter your info in at jambase.com, set up a myspace page, upload some sample music to myspace, do some live shows at local bars, record the shows and upload them to places like etree.org. Get more popular by word of mouth, and you'll be able to charge more for your live shows. When you're ready to record an album, you can rent a studio for pretty cheap these days because the recording technology is so much cheaper, or you can even do a half-decent recording in a basement or practice space if it's set up right. You can burn your own CD's to start, or there are duplicating places that will do it cheap. You can even create your own record label... it doesn't cost much. The only caveat to doing it this way is that you have to love playing live shows, touring, and meeting new people to make it big. You can't just record an album and then sit on your butt letting the recording company do all the marketing and pr for you.

speciallyblend, I know you dj, so copyright law is a little different for you because you get paid to play music for a public audience. There are some bands that have music available for download that would be good for playing at a club. I can think of a few off the top of my head; Particle, Galactic, and Dr. Didge. For example, there are 171 taped Particle shows available here. I'm sure there are many other bands that would be good as well. These bands give permission to download and listen and give copies to other people, but using them while dj'ing may be another issue. You may have to contact the band and get permission for that, but I'd guess they'd probably ok it.

Particle i dig i have actually djed for this band I love promoting bands like particle actually i cannot stand itunes,but i am forced to keep up with the hits etc and their format is the best(after i convert them using a converter i had to buy from itunes).I do use other dj sites as well,but in the end almost 60-70 percent of itunes music i have to buy sucks!!!

 

[Ninja Homer]

Isn't the designer defrauding the customer saying they made the design?

Possibly... they may never actually say that they designed it. They might just get paid $50 to put up a web site. There really isn't anything to do about it, because it is legal there. It's not like it really hurts business much, because if the customer is only willing to pay $50, I never would have done a web site for them in the first place. It's just kind of annoying. Businesses that want good, one of a kind, custom designs are still willing to pay for them.

 

[TonySutton]

that is your choice. this is not the issue though. the issue is taking peoples plans or stuff for free when they have not allowed it!!

I am making the point that sharing ideas and innovation is not a guaranteed loss to the originator. First my business continues to grow even in a weakened economy and second, I have gained from others as they have gained from me.

 

[Ninja Homer]

Particle i dig i have actually djed for this band I love promoting bands like particle actually i cannot stand itunes,but i am forced to keep up with the hits etc and their format is the best(after i convert them using a converter i had to buy from itunes).I do use other dj sites as well,but in the end almost 60-70 percent of itunes music i have to buy sucks!!!

Cool! Particle is awesome! Well there's 171 shows available for free download here:
http://www.archive.org/details/Particle

I think most of them are available in flac format, which is lossless and much better quality than mp3, usually recorded straight to digital from the soundboard.

I installed itunes back when it first came out for PC. It tried to take over my computer and change all my settings, so I uninstalled it and haven't touched it since. Programs that do that suck and should be destroyed.

I still don't understand why itunes is so popular. It's a dollar a song right? There's an average of 12 songs on a CD, so if you were to purchase all the songs from itunes, you might as well have bought the CD. You get a hard copy, you get all the CD artwork, you can rip it to whatever format you want pretty quickly, and it's better quality. I know most people say you can't hear the difference in quality, but I've found that with a decent amp and a decent pair of monitors, most people can hear the difference. Then there's itunes competitors like Rhapsody, where you can download all the music you want and copy it to a portable player for $15/month. I think Rhapsody is only drm though.