Why should we be able to illegally download music??

[fr33domfightr]

I think much of the confusion related to music downloading is due to the RIAA.

They brought up the term, "Piracy," and linked it to downloading. Where in a courtroom, "Piracy" is theft on the high seas, not supposed theft by downloading on the internet.

The RIAA also said they were going to sue "downloaders," which isn't true, since they were actually sueing "uploaders." When downloads do occur, generally, there isn't any means for the RIAA to snoop into the transaction.

Regarding things discussed here, legal terms seem to be getting blurred with moral/ethical issues.


FF

 

[Bman]

Not true....

What's not true. Music Theory is the idea. A song is personal property. If I am to right a piece of music it is not a new idea. It may be a new song but the song it self is not an idea. It may contain some ideas, which you are free to use and share ideas, however playing a ii7-V7-Imaj7 chord progression is not an idea. It is part of a song. By your interpretation a house that has built, for someone other than yourself, is an idea and you can just walk into it and live in it.

Like it or not you people who are downloading music are

A.) Actually doing something that is illegal. I was trying to be polite but if we want to call things what they really are well lets start doing it. You my friend are a Thief! If I sell something and you take it from me without my consent you are a THIEF!!! Get that concept in your brain.

B.) You are ruining a business. As long as illegal downloading continues you will never see the Beatles, The Doors, Pink Floyd, Led Zepplin, KISS or a multitude of other bands who were able to remain successful for many years. WHY? Because people are stealing their resources and they cannot afford to bring you a product of that nature.

If you think what I am saying is wrong well you are just a complete fool and an idiot and I do not thank you at all for thinking you are helping my profession.

Yup, I've made money in music, exclusively, for the past 10 years. And I will till the day I die. I've seen the effects of illegal downloading. While I've personally never been a national signed act, some of my friends have been and I know how much money you cost them. So you can think what you want. But keep it real. At the end of the day you are a petty thief.

 

[AutoDas]

Actual damages is considered someone making money off of your copyrighted material without your permission. And if you can show damage of any way financial this is usually included too.

If someone made money off of your IP then it is only your failure to capitalize on it. But if someone is selling your IP under the guise of being the original source then that would be fraud.

 

[Epic]

From Mises.org

Sorry if somebody already posted these - I didn't read the entire thread.

There has been a big debate at Mises.org about IP the past couple days and weeks.

Here are some links:

http://mises.org/story/3298 "A book that changes everything"
http://blog.mises.org/archives/009280.asp "What is your attitude toward IP"
http://blog.mises.org/archives/009273.asp "Authors: Beware of Copyright"

http://www.mises.org/journals/jls/15_2/15_2_1.pdf "Against Intellectual Monopoly"

The commenting on the blog posts often gets tedious and bloody - but it's pretty intellectually stimulating.


Personally, I oppose all IP rights, but of course I support contractual arrangements between private citizens.

 

[Epic]

Intellectual property laws are unlibertarian because they are protect intelectual monopolies.

As a libertarian, I support competition. When a patent is used, that patent destroys any potential competition for that product.

Piracy has a history of stimulating markets. Specifically, the American economy was able to establish a manufacturing industry after smuggling machine tool plans out of Britain.

Materialistic property can be owned. However, intellectual property cannot be owned. Knowledge cannot be owned.

Intellectual property is irrational. No one would ever claim they could sue me if I memorized a recipe out of a copyrighted cook book and then told the recipe word for word to a friend.

for more libertarian input, go to mises:
http://mises.org/story/3298

Agree completely. Everyone read MISES.ORG

 

[speciallyblend]

it is called stealing, as a dj i buy all my music anyway you put it.If an artist does not give it to you for free.IT IS CALLED STEALING!

 

[speciallyblend]

What's not true. Music Theory is the idea. A song is personal property. If I am to right a piece of music it is not a new idea. It may be a new song but the song it self is not an idea. It may contain some ideas, which you are free to use and share ideas, however playing a ii7-V7-Imaj7 chord progression is not an idea. It is part of a song. By your interpretation a house that has built, for someone other than yourself, is an idea and you can just walk into it and live in it.

Like it or not you people who are downloading music are

A.) Actually doing something that is illegal. I was trying to be polite but if we want to call things what they really are well lets start doing it. You my friend are a Thief! If I sell something and you take it from me without my consent you are a THIEF!!! Get that concept in your brain.

B.) You are ruining a business. As long as illegal downloading continues you will never see the Beatles, The Doors, Pink Floyd, Led Zepplin, KISS or a multitude of other bands who were able to remain successful for many years. WHY? Because people are stealing their resources and they cannot afford to bring you a product of that nature.

If you think what I am saying is wrong well you are just a complete fool and an idiot and I do not thank you at all for thinking you are helping my profession.

Yup, I've made money in music, exclusively, for the past 10 years. And I will till the day I die. I've seen the effects of illegal downloading. While I've personally never been a national signed act, some of my friends have been and I know how much money you cost them. So you can think what you want. But keep it real. At the end of the day you are a petty thief.

hmmmm we agree stop the presses

 

[demolama]

Whats wrong with touring to make money? isn't that what they did in the 1950's to make money? They certainly didn't make it off the records.

 

[speciallyblend]

Whats wrong with touring to make money? isn't that what they did in the 1950's to make money? They certainly didn't make it off the records.

actually the only money they made was off records. They just didn't make that much because the record companies screwed the artists.
alot of well known artists lost money on their tours because of the record companies!!! It is far better for the artists now except for the stealing!!

i suggest you create some original music and see how rich you get with everyone downloading it for free go tour like you said ,pay for your hotel rooms,pay for your roadies and all the other expenses,let me know when you make a profit

 

[AutoDas]

actually the only money they made was off records. They just didn't make that much because the record companies screwed the artists.
alot of well known artists lost money on their tours because of the record companies!!! It is far better for the artists now except for the stealing!!

i suggest you create some original music and see how rich you get with everyone downloading it for free go tour like you said ,pay for your hotel rooms,pay for your roadies and all the other expenses,let me know when you make a profit

Should we all become musicians and performers? Even if we had the most stringent IP laws no one would be any richer because copyright infringement is not stealing, it does not make anyone less off than they were before. Only the exceptional in the entertainment business would be able to thrive. You'd have to act like an omnipresent socialist state to think you can see where the economic activity should be.

 

[powerofreason]

If everyone here supporting IP would just read Against Intellectual Monopoly I swear 90 percent of this debate would stop immediately.

 

[speciallyblend]

Should we all become musicians and performers? Even if we had the most stringent IP laws no one would be any richer because copyright infringement is not stealing, it does not make anyone less off than they were before. Only the exceptional in the entertainment business would be able to thrive. You'd have to act like an omnipresent socialist state to think you can see where the economic activity should be.

unless an artist gives you permission to use their original music. then you cannot use it or download it. it is still stealing! unless you get permission,

for example what right do i have to take marc scibilias song and use it for my new site? I HAVE NONE,but if i ask him for permission? then i have every right to use his song. I asked marc scibilia to use his song and he said yes bottom line unless you ask you do not have his permission and his song is his song,unless you write his music for him??

if you download a free song that artist allows you to use then your right but if you download a song and do not pay for it or ask the artist. It is called stealing no matter how grey you like to make it!!

 

[mconder]

It is theft. Don't download it or your giving the government an excuse to solve the problem. If you can't afford downloading your music from Amazon for $1 a song you have other problems you should consider, like holding a decent job or prioritizing your spending.

 

[powerofreason]

unless an artist gives you permission to use their original music. then you cannot use it or download it. it is still stealing! unless you get permission,

for example what right do i have to take marc scibilias song and use it for my new site? I HAVE NONE,but if i ask him for permission? then i have every right to use his song. I asked marc scibilia to use his song and he said yes bottom line unless you ask you do not have his permission and his song is his song,unless you write his music for him??

if you download a free song that artist allows you to use then your right but if you download a song and do not pay for it or ask the artist. It is called stealing no matter how grey you like to make it!!

No! I know it's hard to unlearn that type of thinking, but if you really care about being on the right side of this issue do some reading. Only the Randians are too arrogant and stubborn to change their minds on this important issue imo.

 

[Ninja Homer]

I think it's important to look at this issue in its original historical context to see what the original intent was for copyright law. At the time copyright law was created, there was no means to easily copy something; no digital copies, no xerox machines, no technologies of any sort that could record sound.

Copyright laws for music were intended to keep other people from making money off of the musician's creation. If a music hall wanted to charge people for the performance of a symphony, they had to pay the musician for the right to do so. If somebody wanted to play a part of the symphony in their own home, then no problem, but to learn it they may have to purchase the sheet music, and only the copyright owner of the music has a right to sell that sheet music.

So originally, copyright laws were to protect against people making money performing somebody else's music. Now, copyright laws are used to protect against the end listener being able to listen to the music without paying. That's a very distinct difference, and I don't think that was the original intent of copyright laws.

There are a lot of musicians who agree with this, and let people record and distribute their music freely. Get to know and support these musicians!!!

I haven't payed for music in probably 10 years, and I don't have to illegally download any of it, because they allow you to download it for free! They make all their money from touring, doing live shows, and selling merchandise. Most of these bands do have studio albums that are protected by copyright, because they are required to when they sign a contract with a record company, but usually their studio albums suck compared to their live stuff anyway.

Here's a couple sites where you can find a LOT of free music:
http://www.archive.org/browse.php?collection=etree&field=/metadata/creator
http://db.etree.org/

There's probably enough music there that you could listen to it continuously for the rest of your life without hearing the same song done the same way twice.

Copyright infringement isn't theft, but it's still illegal. If you want the system to change, support bands that want to change the system. If you want free music, support bands that want you to download it for free.

 

[Bman]

If everyone here supporting IP would just read Against Intellectual Monopoly I swear 90 percent of this debate would stop immediately.

I realy feel you have no understanding of music and should probably just shut up. If you write a song it is your property. Not someone elses. As such you get to decide what is done with the song. If you would like to let people have access to the song for free then it is free to the end user. If you do not, and someone takes the song, for whatever reason, it is called theft. Plain and simple. And so you know the music industry has been suppling people with ways to listen to the music free for years. You just don't have a choice on what is currently playing, normally.

And I have to laugh at another poster who said to support bands that give their music away for free. Well how do you plan on doing that if you are stealing their product. It is simply laughable. Because what you fail to see is that without that original revenue from album sales. There will be no tours. There will be no t-shirts. There will be nothing. Damn idiots not even in the industry trying to say how it should be run. Sure some of you aren't bleeding heart liberals in here?

 

[Bman]

hmmmm we agree stop the presses

LOL. I'm sure we agree more than we don't. I just tend to not be able to keep my mouth shut when I don't agree. And so it goes for opinions. However, this topic is not opinion. Stealing is stealing. A person can label it however they want to. But taking pennies from someone who hasen't given you permission is still theft.

 

[Blowback]

I realy feel you have no understanding of music and should probably just shut up. If you write a song it is your property. Not someone elses. As such you get to decide what is done with the song. If you would like to let people have access to the song for free then it is free to the end user. If you do not, and someone takes the song, for whatever reason, it is called theft. Plain and simple. And so you know the music industry has been suppling people with ways to listen to the music free for years. You just don't have a choice on what is currently playing, normally.

And I have to laugh at another poster who said to support bands that give their music away for free. Well how do you plan on doing that if you are stealing their product. It is simply laughable. Because what you fail to see is that without that original revenue from album sales. There will be no tours. There will be no t-shirts. There will be nothing. Damn idiots not even in the industry trying to say how it should be run. Sure some of you aren't bleeding heart liberals in here?

I don't think you've read Against Intellectual Monopoly yet, have you? It pretty much destroys your arguments and it is a very enjoyable read as well. I recommend you follow up with watching Kinsilla's (sp?) presentation at Mises.org. No one is a "bleeding hear liberal" if they are against I"P" law.

 

[heavenlyboy34]

I don't think you've read Against Intellectual Monopoly yet, have you? It pretty much destroys your arguments and it is a very enjoyable read as well. I recommend you follow up with watching Kinsilla's (sp?) presentation at Mises.org. No one is a "bleeding hear liberal" if they are against I"P" law.

Keep in mind that sincere opponents of IP like you are rare. That is why you are met with hostility. Most people don't put so much thought into it-these are bleeding heart liberals. Before I read Mises Institutes stuff on IP, I was a fan of IP. If you're going to be persuasive with people like your opponents in this thread, you should try to keep the focus where it should be-on the liberty issues. This way, you will avoid provoking emotional reactions from folks.

Good luck! ~hug~

 

[powerofreason]

LOL. I'm sure we agree more than we don't. I just tend to not be able to keep my mouth shut when I don't agree. And so it goes for opinions. However, this topic is not opinion. Stealing is stealing. A person can label it however they want to. But taking pennies from someone who hasen't given you permission is still theft.

Except its not taking pennies.