Why do people vote "uncommitted" at a caucus?

[JK/SEA]

I'm going to my first convention. Won't be a problem for me. Trick is to stay focused on what Ron Paul stands for.

For me, i plan on letting everyone i meet and talk to that i'm a strict fiscal conservative, repeal the 16th amendment, tighten the borders etc etc. All those points can tangent into more detaled info. Just be ready, do some brush up reading on Paul's policies etc etc blah blah...

anyway...here we go.

Time to wake some people up.

OH btw...i'm not the sharpest pencil in the box, but i'm not that dumb either...

if you're a delegate you must go...please...if i can do it, you can too..

 

[RP 247]

I listened to Katja Delavar's conference call three times this week, and it was advised to write-in on the sign-up sheet your presidental preference--Ron Paul--that this is where the media gets their "results" from. When they said not to write Ron Paul on a ballot, that meant not to write his name, but to write the name of the nominated Ron Paul delegate, or your ballot would be invalid.
In anycase, it matters because the media is now saying McCain won. But at this stage, delegates are uncommited. I know a Ron Paul supporter in the next precinct over from mine who, after being elected a delegate, was listed on the tally sheet as a Huckabee delegate, because an overbearing Huckabee supporter demanded it. This friend of mine did not study well enough Robert's Rules or Order, so she did not know to say "Point of order, Mr/Madam Chairman," and contest this obvious manipulation of the tally numbers.

I honestly had no idea the voting system in this country was so confusing.

 

[Cascadian]

JK/SEA, right on, arm yourself with knowledge and be prepared. I don't think this can be said enough.

 

[Rusty John]

I listened to Katja Delavar's conference call three times this week, and it was advised to write-in on the sign-up sheet your presidental preference--Ron Paul--that this is where the media gets their "results" from. When they said not to write Ron Paul on a ballot, that meant not to write his name, but to write the name of the nominated Ron Paul delegate, or your ballot would be invalid.
In anycase, it matters because the media is now saying McCain won. But at this stage, delegates are uncommited. I know a Ron Paul supporter in the next precinct over from mine who, after being elected a delegate, was listed on the tally sheet as a Huckabee delegate, because an overbearing Huckabee supporter demanded it. This friend of mine did not study well enough Robert's Rules or Order, so she did not know to say "Point of order, Mr/Madam Chairman," and contest this obvious manipulation of the tally numbers.

They didn't mention that in the caucus info on the web page- that sucks- I put Ron Paul down as my preference but, as I said previously, many people did not.

 

[BiPolarBear]

There wouldn't BE any press coverage of a Ron Paul win.

It still amazes me that people don't realize this...Delegates are more important than wins because they will either not cover it at all or rationalize it away with minimal coverage. Delegates are the name of the game from here out...it is our only chance for a brokered convention. Or at best a good scare for the GOP and giving Paul some type of concessions (okay, maybe I'm being too optimistic here ).

 

[4RP08inKCMO]

It still amazes me that people don't realize this...Delegates are more important than wins because they will either not cover it at all or rationalize it away with minimal coverage. Delegates are the name of the game from here out...it is our only chance for a brokered convention. Or at best a good scare for the GOP and giving Paul some type of concessions (okay, maybe I'm being too optimistic here ).

Tonight we could have gotten delegates AND a win, but some RP supporters were apparently confused and didn't write down Ron Paul for presidential preference:

I listened to Katja Delavar's conference call three times this week, and it was advised to write-in on the sign-up sheet your presidental preference--Ron Paul--that this is where the media gets their "results" from. When they said not to write Ron Paul on a ballot, that meant not to write his name, but to write the name of the nominated Ron Paul delegate, or your ballot would be invalid.

 

[Cascadian]

RP 247,
It is confusing at first, but after awhile it starts to make sense. We were lucky to have an older, honest gentleman for our group leader at our pooled caucus, and he helped us thorugh some of the more confusing aspects of the process. Tonight he even invited us back to his home, and he is not a Ron Paul supporter. But he was impressed with us and our honest enthusiasm with learning about the process and wanting to be involved with the Republican party. He has put my name in for the PCO of my precient (this is Kate talking now--Ray is the other half). He showed me how the paperwork was filled out so I could do it myself the next time around. Great people. A great experience meeting my neighbors. And I loved his stories about fishing and mining.

 

[raiha]

I honestly had no idea the voting system in this country was so confusing.

Oh good! I thought it was just an antipodean limitation.

 

[Rusty John]

Tonight we could have gotten delegates AND a win, but some RP supporters were apparently confused and didn't write down Ron Paul for presidential preference:

Exactly- a lot of Ron Paul supporters (myself included) were new to this process. The campaign had these conference calls set up yet did not include this info on the caucus packet they had on their web page. The state gop and local gop sites didn't have this info either, nor did the press.

 

[Rusty John]

RP 247,
It is confusing at first, but after awhile it starts to make sense. We were lucky to have an older, honest gentleman for our group leader at our pooled caucus, and he helped us thorugh some of the more confusing aspects of the process. Tonight he even invited us back to his home, and he is not a Ron Paul supporter. But he was impressed with us and our honest enthusiasm with learning about the process and wanting to be involved with the Republican party. He has put my name in for the PCO of my precient (this is Kate talking now--Ray is the other half). He showed me how the paperwork was filled out so I could do it myself the next time around. Great people. A great experience meeting my neighbors. And I loved his stories about fishing and mining.

I would agree- the guy in my precinct who had been with the party a while was very glad to see such a huge turn-out- we won't to elect Dino and defeat Gregoire too...lol. He works a couple of blocks from my office and invited me to lunch. This is why I get so upset when I see people who weren't involved with the process posting on here talking about fraud and conspiracies. The vast majority of people there were very happy to see such a huge out pouring of support at a gop event.

 

[Cascadian]

Rusty,
The campaign did not set up these conference calls. It was grassroots all the way. Katja is amazing, as is the gentleman who donated the line so she could help people understand the caucus process. And everyone who joined into the conference call was on their own dime (of course, if you have free mins after 9pm, when the conference started, then you didn't pay for the call )

Our group leader had also not seen this large of a turnout before--Randle West had 6 people, but that was good for here. In a friend's precinct they were also not expecting the 11 that showed up. We are talking very rural here, so these are large numbers.

...The majority of those people were Huckabee supporters, but out three small precincts that I know about up here in the mountains, 3 of the 7 delegate positions, almost half, went to Ron Paul, with the others being split between McCain and Huckabee. Nice that they're split.

 

[Rusty John]

Rusty,
The campaign did not set up these conference calls. It was grassroots all the way. Katja is amazing, as is the gentleman who donated the line so she could help people understand the caucus process. And everyone who joined into the conference call was on their own dime (of course, if you have free mins after 9pm, when the conference started, then you didn't pay for the call )

Our group leader had also not seen this large of a turnout before--Randle West had 6 people, but that was good for here. In a friend's precinct they were also not expecting the 11 that showed up. We are talking very rural here, so these are large numbers.

...The majority of those people were Huckabee supporters, but out three small precincts that I know about up here in the mountains, 3 of the 7 delegate positions, almost half, went to Ron Paul, with the others being split between McCain and Huckabee. Nice that they're split.

Nice- goes to show that the grassroots has their sh*t together better than the campaign- hey, maybe now that they are winding things down we can do this on our own...lol.

 

[Cascadian]

I think the campaign is doing as well as can be expected. I think there is still a mindset that people have of expecting someone else to take charge and get something done, a mentality fostered by our government and the mainstream media. There are people who don't realise that when Ron Paul is elected president that the work doesn't end. It will be more important than ever to support him in any way we can. A big part of that will be putting major pressure on Congress to work with him. When you think about it, we have an easier job compared to our forefathers. If we act now, we do not have to pick up weapons and sacrafice lives for liberty.

 

[gray]

so basically the votes on cnn are only the totals from sign in sheets when delegates arrived at the caucus...so the votes aren't actual delegates, just a tally of who people said they supported when they signed in?

 

[IllMortalD]

The election system obviously needs to be reformed and I mean like tomorrow. It's designed to keep us out not help us become a part of the system. Let's all learn to become self sustainable and the gov't can go play by itself.

 

[Rusty John]

so basically the votes on cnn are only the totals from sign in sheets when delegates arrived at the caucus...so the votes aren't actual delegates, just a tally of who people said they supported when they signed in?

Correct- these tallys that are being reported are from the list when people signed in. For example- our precinct had seven people- Person A was for Ron Paul, Person B for Romney, C for Huckabee, D for Ron Paul, E for McCain, F for Huckabee and G for McCain. On some precincts, people listed Uncommitted instead of a candidate's name.

My precinct had 1 delegate and one alternate. Myself and one of the Huckabee people were nominated for the delegate position. We seven voted for the delegate and Person C won, I was listed as the alternate. So, when the selection sheet was turned in to the county chair- it showed Person C supporting Huckabee and Person A (me) as an alternate for Paul.

In other precincts, many Ron Paul supporters put themselves down as uncommitted on the sign in sheet and they got elected as delegates. So, they are actually Paul delegates even though they are listed as Uncommitted.

Many have speculated that a lot of these uncommitted votes are people whose candidates have dropped out of the race. This is not true- I walked around the room before voting started- many of the other precincts' sign in sheets had people listing Romney, Thompson and Hunter as their preference.

 

[Rusty John]

The election system obviously needs to be reformed and I mean like tomorrow. It's designed to keep us out not help us become a part of the system. Let's all learn to become self sustainable and the gov't can go play by itself.

Quite the contrary- we got a lot of delegates just because Ron Paul supporters were able to show up at the county caucuses in a couple of months and were the only ones available as delegates. In many precincts only 4 or 5 people showed up where they were voting for 3 delegates. In short, in order to win you have to know the system and show up. There is no fraud here, people need to chill the f' out.

 

[gray]

Correct- these tallys that are being reported are from the list when people signed in. For example- our precinct had seven people- Person A was for Ron Paul, Person B for Romney, C for Huckabee, D for Ron Paul, E for McCain, F for Huckabee and G for McCain. On some precincts, people listed Uncommitted instead of a candidate's name.

My precinct had 1 delegate and one alternate. Myself and one of the Huckabee people were nominated for the delegate position. We seven voted for the delegate and Person C won, I was listed as the alternate. So, when the selection sheet was turned in to the county chair- it showed Person C supporting Huckabee and Person A (me) as an alternate for Paul.

In other precincts, many Ron Paul supporters put themselves down as uncommitted on the sign in sheet and they got elected as delegates. So, they are actually Paul delegates even though they are listed as Uncommitted.

Many have speculated that a lot of these uncommitted votes are people whose candidates have dropped out of the race. This is not true- I walked around the room before voting started- many of the other precincts' sign in sheets had people listing Romney, Thompson and Hunter as their preference.

so why in the world is the president of the gop saying mccain won?!?

Plus, does this mean other 'uncommitted' votes in previous caucuses mean the same thing? That RP supporters were covertly entering under 'uncommitted'? Guess we'll find out at the convention?

 

[RP 247]

what do the delegates do at that the convention? yell at eachother? steel cage matches?

 

[Rusty John]

what do the delegates do at that the convention? yell at eachother? steel cage matches?

I thought we were going to decide by playing rock, paper, scissors today.

I hear that the county conventions are a riot- people really get into it. My precinctwas a bitof a joke- the one deciding vote was a McCain supporter who couldn't quite understand that we were voting for delegates, not an actual candidate. Every time they'd ask for his vote he'd say, "Well I want to vote for McCain." The PCO would explain, that's not how it works- we have two nominees for delegate- this one is saying he will vote for Ron Paul and this one is saying he will vote for Huckabee. Which one do you want to vote for? "I want to vote for John McCain!" the guy would reply. This went on for 10 minutes until he got it.

Then,he aksed why he should vote for Ron Paul, I ran down the list of items and mentioned his desire to bring troops home from places like Korea where they weren't needed. The McCain supporter then accused me of "cutting and running" from Korea, a conflict aht had been decided some 55 years ago and voted for the Huckabee guy...lol.