speciallyblend
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i totally agree with you! have been saying this since i joined the gop yrs back!
What really irks me about the tea party is their foreign policy and views on Muslims
- Thread starter Depressed Liberator
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i totally agree with you! have been saying this since i joined the gop yrs back!
Minuteman2012
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I don't have a positive view of Muslims, though I am not a member of the Tea Party. One of the reasons I am a non-interventionist is because I don't think we should get caught up in the irrationality of Islamic politics. Their religion is an antithesis to the concept of Liberty and Justice.
And this Cordoba Mosque(anyone who has studied Islamic History like I have, knows the significance of Cordoba as the staging point for the Islamic invasion of Spain and the rest of Europe) at ground Zero really makes my view more negative towards the religion. It is incredibly disrespectful towards those who died and as a negative symbolic connotation in Islam. In the, past,mosques were built at battle sites and conquered areas to show the spiritual and physical dominance of Islam in the area, and this Imam, who is a radical, no doubt has the same purpose. If his purpose was cultural dialogue, he could have built an interfaith cultural center there. But if he wanted to build a mosque to honestly fit an excess of Muslims in the area he could have put it in several other available spots. This clearly is not a coincidence, it didn't happen by accident. I oppose any government action to stop it, but encourage strikes by organized labor to prohibit the mosque from being built.
And this Cordoba Mosque(anyone who has studied Islamic History like I have, knows the significance of Cordoba as the staging point for the Islamic invasion of Spain and the rest of Europe) at ground Zero really makes my view more negative towards the religion. It is incredibly disrespectful towards those who died and as a negative symbolic connotation in Islam. In the, past,mosques were built at battle sites and conquered areas to show the spiritual and physical dominance of Islam in the area, and this Imam, who is a radical, no doubt has the same purpose. If his purpose was cultural dialogue, he could have built an interfaith cultural center there. But if he wanted to build a mosque to honestly fit an excess of Muslims in the area he could have put it in several other available spots. This clearly is not a coincidence, it didn't happen by accident. I oppose any government action to stop it, but encourage strikes by organized labor to prohibit the mosque from being built.
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Collectivism...objectivism.
Groups...individuals.
I hope you understand the analogy and why I used it in response to your post.
If it is private property, do what they will....If it is in NY, no one outside of NY should care...I have not studied Islam, but from what I have heard they have a soft spot for Orphans....someone should recommend a list of every Orphaned child made on 9/11 be carved into a stone monument right inside the damn mosque. Now that would be touching, and go a long way to soften the tone. I'm sure there are other things that could be done that hit on the Islamic religion to honor the dead of that day, but instead of talking about it and testing how far they will go to prove their prayers will be for peace and not war, it becomes a black and white topic to horde sheeple votes...I am 100% against any protests against this site, not because letting it happen would "show our tolerance", but because it would show we don't give a fuck about anything but individual liberty period. Come to America and do as you will as long as it harms no one else period. That is a message 1000x stronger than tolerance. Tolerance is just permission from a stronger force, but we need to pound that the strongest force here is "you", the individual. Build whatever you want, where ever you want, as long as it doesn't fall over and kill someone you're good. America.
Anyway, back on topic, can't fucking wait until the 2012 election season so I can 24/7 slam all my Obama loving friends into Ron Paul votes.....YEAHHHHHH!!!! All about the slow sell, and they are sitting defenseless ducks right now. Just try and be nice and watch the votes pour in...
Minuteman2012
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I just want to stop the mosque through peaceful liberty oriented means like strikes, no force whatsoever.
And I think the people will do just that. If average citizens show up and protest everyday they will close there doors eventually. I would rather see it built, then closed if they show disrespect after the fact... Than anything organized, even on the street level.
Like the whole "Rand Paul Civil Rights Act" thing. There was a story of a pool somewhere that turned away a black kid, it made national news and everyone got pissed and they crumbled. But if the pool was never built, then the people would never have had the chance to snub it on there own. A lunch counter would never survive these days as a whites only, not because the government saved us from racism on paper, but because it is the people will as good individuals, minds got changed for the better. Let them build it, let them disrespect us, and it won't last long....but who knows, maybe it will do more good than any hearts and minds campaign in the battle could. Just have to let it play out I guess. But again, I am not studied on the meanings of certain building etc. so I know you know better, but a coy response that lets them build, then reacts to any disrespect if it happens would serve us better. It is NY, they won't play, place is getting mobbed after the first anti-American speech is spewed. And if they know that too, than a "pro-American" Mosque at ground zero could be amazing.
BlackTerrel
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Yes. The great Islamic triumph at the Burlington Coat Factory.
Like what kind of strike? That the people who oppose it will refuse to go? I don't think that will stop them...
RM918
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The private property argument has not gotten me anywhere with folks who watch Glenn Beck. The ones I speak with agree that the city or the federal government shouldn't stop them from building there, but they think this is just a gigantic dick move by the people building this place. Especially how they want to open it on 9/11 next year, everything about it just looks suspicious and with the purpose of pissing people off.
Me, personally, I know the only reason we're hearing about this is the fact that the establishment wants to drum up hatred against Muslims and provide yet another distraction from their incompetence at home and abroad. Despite the fact the guys drumming up this controversy were the exact ones that failed us on 9/11, let bin Laden go and continue to refuse to hunt down the monsters that committed this act in favor of milking the event dry for every horrific pet project they can muster.
They don't see it, though. They hate seeing people 'roll over for Muslims' and encourage this sort of thing, even though we'd build a military base right next to goddamned Hiroshima.
Me, personally, I know the only reason we're hearing about this is the fact that the establishment wants to drum up hatred against Muslims and provide yet another distraction from their incompetence at home and abroad. Despite the fact the guys drumming up this controversy were the exact ones that failed us on 9/11, let bin Laden go and continue to refuse to hunt down the monsters that committed this act in favor of milking the event dry for every horrific pet project they can muster.
They don't see it, though. They hate seeing people 'roll over for Muslims' and encourage this sort of thing, even though we'd build a military base right next to goddamned Hiroshima.
Pauls' Revere
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The Double Standard
What gets me is we get all upset about a Islamic Mosque in our country but we dont think twice about our military bases in Islamic countries. Seems we have a double standard.
List of US Military bases worldwide:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_military_bases
What gets me is we get all upset about a Islamic Mosque in our country but we dont think twice about our military bases in Islamic countries. Seems we have a double standard.
List of US Military bases worldwide:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_military_bases
"Irrationality of Islamic politics" = I don't understand them, don't care to understand them, so instead of trying to understand them or admitting my ignorance, I'll just say they don't make sense.
Care to tell me why my religion, and the religion of many here at RPF, and many more in the liberty movement, is an "antithesis to the concept of liberty and justice"? A society cannot be built, a civilization cannot exist, without liberty and justice.
I can see where you get your information about "Islamic History" from. And it's quite telling that the choice of name of the center (it's not a mosque) by some person gives you a negative view towards the ENTIRE religion. Very revealing.
Incidentally, it's not a mosque (it's an Islamic youth center with a prayer room), and it's not called Cordoba any more (Park 51 is the latest name).
I'll let Keith Olbermann take it from here. I know, he's a douche, but even a stopped clock is right twice a day.
YouTube - Keith Olbermann Special Comment: There Is No 'Ground Zero Mosque' - 08/16/10
"Antithesis to the concepts of liberty and justice". That's one for the books.
silentshout
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I completely agree with you, OP, and the others that are disgusted with this. It puts me off going to any tea party type events around here..this is the kind of stuff they go on about, well at least according to a friend of mine who has gone to one of their local events. I just don't think I'd fit in well there.
Minuteman2012
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No a labor strike.
Minuteman2012
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I know about Islamic politics, but I don't care to change it, or deal with it, with loss of American life and treasure. They will westernize in due time through free trade and cultural exchange. This is happening with Iran despite sanctions and the fact we don't talk with Iran.
Plenty of states can exist without liberty and justice, most societies in human history have been totalitarian. Sharia law is out of line with our constitution, most notably in that it recognizes no right of religious freedom, and treats religious/irreligious minorities as second class citizens. Equal protection under the law is essential in a free society, and sharia creates a two tiered society.
I just took a Medieval Studies Class at my university, and it was hardly anti-muslim, it merely stated historical facts. The fact is, Islam did try to conquer the known world and built mosques on conquered territory.
Cordoba House is part of park 51, the name cordoba house was never revoked.
It is half a football field away from ground zero, it is at ground zero. I will let Michelle Malkin take it from here, I mean, even a war mongering neo con is right twice a day.
http://michellemalkin.com/2010/08/15/ground-zero-mosque-2/
I've never been to NY and probably never will. I could care less if the mosque gets built and am sick of hearing about it. If I had it my way, somebody would build a 13-story billboard that says "9/11 was an inside job" on the site.
In regards to the wars, I will never again support any war no matter what the circumstances. I hope we lose these wars because we are in the wrong.
In regards to the wars, I will never again support any war no matter what the circumstances. I hope we lose these wars because we are in the wrong.
Minuteman2012
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I haven't give money to anything other than the Rand Paul campaign, but if Greg Gutfeld goes ahead with the gay bar across the street from the Mosque, I plan on giving money anyway I can.
http://www.mediaite.com/tv/greg-gut...ound-zero-mosque-to-cater-to-islamic-gay-men/
http://www.mediaite.com/tv/greg-gut...ound-zero-mosque-to-cater-to-islamic-gay-men/
Elaborate.
And Christians didn't? Most was dynastic expansion to fill the coffers of kings and sultans with little regard for religion. Much like in Europe, many sultans waged war on each other and looted each others coffers.
The whole "Islam spread through conquest" myth is just tired. Indonesia is the largest Islamic country in terms of population. No Muslim soldier has ever set foot there.
There are more than 75 million Muslims in Nigeria (over 50% of the population). No Muslim soldier has ever set foot there.
A full quarter of the population of South India is Muslim. No Muslim soldier ever set foot there.
JohnEngland
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This.
But just on a related note, which I think relates to both the Republicans and Democrats (because, let's be honest, they're both for war):
As an outsider to America (ie England), I just don't get this support for Israel. Yes, I know it's primarily a religious thing, and I'm a proper Catholic and all, but nevertheless, the rest of Christianity around the world doesn't have this insane worship of this small strip of land.
Why is it that so many in [what appears] America specifically can have very sensible positions on economics and the role of government - in fact, Americans understand liberty and individualism better than any other country - but when it comes to Israel, the same people just throw their brains out the window and demand World War 3!
I'm pretty sure Americans haven't always had this devotion. Perhaps only since the 1950s onwards?
And, on another side note: Why do so many think that America can just go around bombing whatever country they want? Perhaps this is one of the social consequences of being a superpower - I'm sure that back in the day, we Brits used to think the same!
Well anyway, I know on this forum many of us are asking the same questions. When will common sense prevail in this world?
Minuteman2012
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Well, I will give one Sunni examples and one Shia example.
In Iran, a shia nation, under blasphemy laws, conversion from Islam earns the death penalty, proselytizing and publishing zoroastian/christian/jewish literature is illegal, there is heavy surveillance of churches, and churches cannot do services in persian.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blasphemy_law_in_Iran
http://www.persecution.org/suffering/countryinfodetail.php?countrycode=21
In Saudi Arabia, it is illegal to be a non-muslim, flat out, it earns the death penalty.
Apostasy earns anywhere from imprisonment, to loss of citizenship, to caning, to the death penalty in muslim countries with strict sharia/ Here are the list of countries:
Saudi Arabia
Iran
Algeria
Five States in Malaysia
Yemen
Bahrain
Oman
Qatar
Jordan
http://christianquoter.blogspot.com/2009/02/speak-up-on-behalf-of-apostates-from.html
http://www.missionandjustice.org/9-detained-in-yemen-for-apostasy/
And many countries do nothing about vigilantes who kill apostates
No, not really, Christianity spread through missionaries in the near east and europe and the British Isles. And even if Christianity did, it wouldn't excuse Islam engaging in it.
So what? They conquered the arabian peninsula, Persia, the levant, north, Africa, and southern spain, by force, just because not all islamic countries were conquered by muhammad's armies, doesn't mean most countries which are Islamic today weren't.
00_Pete
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a) I dont think their opinions regarding Muslims and the WOT are as bad as some claim, most of this comes from the leftist media, you know the "racist rednecks hillbillies who hate ayrabs...etc...etc...". Unfortunatly, when it comes to "cultural" things many libertarians buy what the leftist propaganda says.
b) The opinions of some of them regarding this issues just "come with the package" and people should be smart like Rand Paul is, work with it instead of working against it. Sometimes you just have to bullsh*t people to do the right thing. I remember watching a Rothbard lecture where he clearly says (in half words) that libertarians should be more like Marxists when it comes to bullsh*t...
b) The opinions of some of them regarding this issues just "come with the package" and people should be smart like Rand Paul is, work with it instead of working against it. Sometimes you just have to bullsh*t people to do the right thing. I remember watching a Rothbard lecture where he clearly says (in half words) that libertarians should be more like Marxists when it comes to bullsh*t...
nobody's_hero
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I find that a good strategy in winning over Muslim-haterz is to just say "fuck 'em." You have to make it sound like we aren't giving up anything.
Ex.:
"You know [insert teocon's name here], I don't see why our troops should have to stay over there and help those backward ragheads to rebuild their nation. We've been over there for ten years now [actually a lot longer, but don't confuse their tiny brains, since everything in their mind started since 9/11], and those people won't step up and take control of their own country. I say, "f*ck 'em". It's time to come home, stay on our guard, and if anyone messes with us, we just blow 'em up. We don't have to give up our security, but we sure as hell ought to stop putting our troops' lives on the line for theirs."
Now, that's spun a bit, but I've found that maybe, 40% of the time, it actually works.
Ex.:
"You know [insert teocon's name here], I don't see why our troops should have to stay over there and help those backward ragheads to rebuild their nation. We've been over there for ten years now [actually a lot longer, but don't confuse their tiny brains, since everything in their mind started since 9/11], and those people won't step up and take control of their own country. I say, "f*ck 'em". It's time to come home, stay on our guard, and if anyone messes with us, we just blow 'em up. We don't have to give up our security, but we sure as hell ought to stop putting our troops' lives on the line for theirs."
Now, that's spun a bit, but I've found that maybe, 40% of the time, it actually works.
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