What causes conflict between Christian Conservative Republicans and libertarians?

This is the one thing that I envy about the Democrats. No stupid bickering over religious stuff on that side.

I think it's a mutual amount of hate. The GOP has been flat out hijacked by the bible thumpers. They used to be just one of many groups that made up the party. Now they are the party. The GOP is no longer the big tent party and this is exactly why. The evangelicals, as a whole, shun any one that doesn't wear their religion on the sleeve and doesnt support the religious agenda as the platform of the GOP. They simply don't want "non-believers" in "their party". Ive seen the comments across the net way too many times to have any other opinion. Of course there are exceptions to this rule and many of those exceptions are members here. Unfortunately, you are the minority. And as a non-religious person, so am I.
 
LibertyEagle said:
I know you don't, Torch. But, you have to admit that we, as a group, haven't done much to welcome Christians into this movement. Quite the contrary, we drove them away, in addition to anyone over 40.
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I think you're confusing "this movement" with "this website."
 
ghemminger said:
Always wondered about this. We are for the abolishment of the income tax and constitutional principles. I wonder where such DEEP hate come from???

I was a NeoCon at one time and NEVER hated Libertarians... never really thought of them at all
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If you figure it out, let me know, okay? Because I am a Christian, I have always considered myself fairly conservative, and in the past I've tended to vote Republican. But they hate me, too :confused:
 
Live_Free_Or_Die said:
Many christians I know and have spoken with fundamentally believe government should regulate morality. They might not admit it openly but the truth is soon reveals itself over the course of a conversation. If any christians want to challenge my assertion by all means start a thread and we will have a conversation.

It seems to be ok for christians to practice a religion everyone does not believe in free of government interference but it is often not ok when other people do something christians consider immoral.
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What Christians believe is that God is the sustainer and ruler of the nations, and as such God should be properly honored and acknowledged by government. The notion that government can be neutral about religion is just that, a notion, not a presumption all must accept at the start of the conversation. There are also legitmate differences about whether 'personal behavior' is in fact victimless, given God may be victimized by the action.

Having laws against some 'personal' behaviors that run contrary to God's revealed law and holy character is, in this light, not imposing or regulating morality, but protecting God's property interests from those who would misuse His Creation against His will. From that perspective such laws are libertarian in nature, as they defend the Author of Liberty, while a lack of such laws are authoritarian by defacto imposing libertinism on a largely Christian country.

Failing to reach agreement as to the proper basis for libertarian law given the above, we should a least agree on the ability to hold a different cognitive foundation for forging it. Local communities that come to a 'San Francisco' or left-libertarian perspective should not impose their constructs on a 'Bible belt' right-libertarian area, and vice versa. Paul has always stressed a local/federalist approach as the best and most mutually tolerant way to resolve the matter, as opposed to a one size fits all approach at the federal level.
 
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Peace&Freedom said:
What Christians believe is that God is the sustainer and ruler of the nations, and as such God should be properly honored and acknowledged by government. The notion that government can be neutral about religion is just that, a notion, not a presumption all must accept at the start of the conversation. There are also legitmate differences about whether 'personal behavior' is in fact victimless, given God may be victimized by the action.

Having laws against some 'personal' behaviors that run contrary to God's revealed law and holy character is, in this light, not imposing or regulating morality, but protecting God's property interests from those who would misuse His Creation against His will. From that perspective such laws are libertarian in nature, as they defend the Author of Liberty, while a lack of such laws are authoritarian by defacto imposing libertinism on a largely Christian country.

Failing to reach agreement as to the proper basis for libertarian law given the above, we should a least agree the ability to hold a different cognitive foundation for forging it. Local communities that come to a 'San Francisco' or left-libertarian perspective should not impose their constructs on a 'Bible belt' ritht-libertarian area, and vice versa. Paul has always stressed a local/federalist approach as the best and most mutually tolerant way to resolve the matter, as opposed to a one size fits all approach at the federal level.
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QFT!! But, from my reading of the Federalist literature, the Federalists would resolve this with a top-down approach. Could you make a citation backing your assertion, please? Thanks. :)
 
I think that the relevant citation would be "Congress shall make no law" in the bill of rights, a stricture against the federal government exceeding its powers. This was meant to keep the states and the people in charge of their rights, and with it the freedom to resolve issues at their level. The latter were considered MORE powerful than the federal entity, so its top-down in that sense.
 
Peace&Freedom said:
I think that the relevant citation would be "Congress shall make no law" in the bill of rights, a stricture against the federal government exceeding its powers. This was meant to keep the states and the people in charge of their rights, and with it the freedom to resolve issues at their level. The latter were considered MORE powerful than the federal entity, so its top-down in that sense.
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The BoR was a result of a compromise with the ANTI-Federalists, though (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Bill_of_Rights#The_Anti-Federalists). ;) Your connection to Federalism is still not clear.
 
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Live_Free_Or_Die said:
Many christians I know and have spoken with fundamentally believe government should regulate morality. They might not admit it openly but the truth is soon reveals itself over the course of a conversation. If any christians want to challenge my assertion by all means start a thread and we will have a conversation.
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"Many Christians you know".... 80% of Americans are Christian. There's a pretty diverse set of opinions there. You going to lump us all in one big bucket?

It seems to be ok for christians to practice a religion everyone does not believe in free of government interference but it is often not ok when other people do something christians consider immoral.
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I've never known a Christian to object to someone else practicing their religion, at least not the ones I know. Most of the preach love and understanding. Even those who (for instance) think homosexuality is a sin don't think it should be outlawed, though marriage is another issue.
 
Conservative Christians hate us because of people like Jerry Falwell. Its that simple.

Conservative Christians used to be more on our side, about 50 years ago.
 
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