What causes conflict between Christian Conservative Republicans and libertarians?

[FrankRep]

The Republicans hate us because we want to reduce government power. Political parties want more power so we threaten them.

Rs and Ds both want more power.

 

[torchbearer]

The Republicans hate us because we want to reduce government power. Political parties want more power so we threaten them.

Rs and Ds both want more power.

Those without power cannot defend freedom.
Power is not the problem.
This mis-use and unconstitutional use of power that is the problem.

 

[mediahasyou]

Taxation is Theft. If they believe "Thou shall not steal.", they should be against taxes and with us.

 

[heavenlyboy34]

Scholars say that historical documents show Judas leaning toward libertarianism as well.

lol

 

[LibertyEagle]

Would it have anything to do with what the more vocal "christians" are doing?

How many times are you and others going to use this one picture to excuse the way that many on here have bashed Christians and older Americans THROUGHOUT THIS ENTIRE CAMPAIGN and even now?

And their in-depth conversation with god:
Pat Robertson: God says US will accept socialism: http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=85243

Or the many Jimmy Swagarts of the world?
Or the Reps. who are hard core drug warriors, anti-gay warriors... and just generally intolerant of anyone who doesn't fit their bastardized bread of chrisitianity?

Yes, those two are so very representative of Christianity.

Using your logic, I guess that means that Christians should start equating everyone who doesn't believe in Christ, to be akin to Charles Manson.

If there is hate... then there is a reason...
Instead of getting mad at the hate.. why don't you start looking at the reasons.

There ALWAYS was hate. Some now think they have a reason they can attach to their hate, but it still FAILS. It fails for the same reason that those who hate all Muslims and want to see them dead, fails.

If you want to attract people into this movement, or even just get them to listen to us, perhaps we ought to stop insulting the hell out of them. Ya think?

"This is the real reason the collectivist Left hates religion: Churches as institutions compete with the state for the people’s allegiance, and many devout people put their faith in God before their faith in the state. Knowing this, the secularists wage an ongoing war against religion, chipping away bit by bit at our nation’s Christian heritage."

--Dr. Ron Paul

 

[torchbearer]

How many times are you and others going to use this one picture to excuse the way that many on here have bashed Christians and older Americans THROUGHOUT THIS ENTIRE CAMPAIGN and even now?


Yes, those two are so very representative of Christianity.

Using your logic, I guess that means that Christians should start equating everyone who doesn't believe in Christ, to be akin to Charles Manson.


There ALWAYS was hate. Some now think they have a reason they can attach to their hate, but it still FAILS. It fails for the same reason that those who hate all Muslims and want to see them dead, fails.

I just told you why a lot people hate christians.
learn, or make excuses. That is your choice.

 

[LibertyEagle]

I t Wierd... CHristianity is a foundation of my life but I find so may CCR's filled with so much hatred they really don't resemble anything "Christian" at all.

This is an unconquerable divide. We need to just try and carve out a third party force... It's the ONLY way

Who is "WE"?

Atheist and Agnostics for Liberty? (for us, but not for everyone else. Because we don't really understand the definition of individual liberty, which is why we bash Christians and old people so much in our ignorance). <--- how do you like the tag line? You can use it if you want.

 

[LibertyEagle]

I just told you why a lot people hate christians.
learn, or make excuses. That is your choice.

I know the excuses, Torch. But, that's what they are "excuses". Face reality, or continue to make excuses. THAT is YOUR choice.

 

[torchbearer]

I know the excuses, Torch. But, that's what they are "excuses". Face reality, or continue to make excuses. THAT is YOUR choice.

I can't make people stop hating.
I don't hate christians. I have severe disdain for the people who use their good will faith in a divine for profit and power.

 

[Infamouswoodster]

I suppose this is the part where i shake my head and think to myself "really? i didn't know i hated you guys".

The only thing i hate about the Ron paul movement, is the people who continue to start BS threads like this one.

I support freedom, So does ron paul. My freedom isnt just here locally, its also eternally Through faith in Jesus.
The very principles that promote freedom, Graced the bibles pages long before the US existed.

You are fighting the battle, 80 or so years from now you will gone and your fight for "freedom" will go with you.

Wake and see the fight isnt just against the "government" . Wake up, your are not special enough to be collectively hated by a large group of people.

Get a grip, and stop starting threads bashing a group of people who participate in the SAME movement you are trying to promote.

 

[LibertyEagle]

I can't make people stop hating.
I don't hate christians. I have severe disdain for the people who use their good will faith in a divine for profit and power.

I know you don't, Torch. But, you have to admit that we, as a group, haven't done much to welcome Christians into this movement. Quite the contrary, we drove them away, in addition to anyone over 40.

 

[torchbearer]

I suppose this is the part where i shake my head and think to myself "really? i didn't know i hated you guys".

The only thing i hate about the Ron paul movement, is the people who continue to start BS threads like this one.

I support freedom, So does ron paul. My freedom isnt just here locally, its also eternally Through faith in Jesus.
The very principles that promote freedom, Graced the bibles pages long before the US existed.

You are fighting the battle, 80 or so years from now you will gone and your fight for "freedom" will go with you.

Wake and see the fight isnt just against the "government" . Wake up, your are not special enough to be collectively hated by a large group of people.

Get a grip, and stop starting threads bashing a group of people who participate in the SAME movement you are trying to promote.

WHo do you think started the anti-gay threads?
Then following, who do you think started the anti-christian threads?
Who threw the first stone?
I don't know.
But i believe it is the intolerance present in christians that began it for this reason...
the gay communities i know are very tolerant, and even have christians in their group...
the only hate i was seeing was the christians throwing stones at the "sinners".

Then they wonder why people hate them?
Why are people starting to dislike Israel?

 

[LibertyEagle]

WHo do you think started the anti-gay threads?
Then following, who do you think started the anti-christian threads?
Who threw the first stone?
I don't know.
But i believe it is the intolerance present in christians that began it for this reason...
the gay communities i know are very tolerant, and even have christians in their group...
the only hate i was seeing was the christians throwing stones at the "sinners".

Then they wonder why people hate them?
Why are people starting to dislike Israel?

That's BULLSHIT, Torch. Do you remember all the threads and comments flat out insulting Christians and older Americans, during the campaign? Well, I do. Because as a Moderator, I had to read most of them. They were insulting and they were DISGUSTING.

Face it. WE DROVE PEOPLE OFF FROM THIS MOVEMENT, BECAUSE OF SOME OF YOU ALLS' SPOILED LITTLE BRAT BEHAVIOR. (Not talking about you here, Torch)

It was so bad, it even caused MsDoodahs to write this? Do you remember?

This is going to piss some of you off. I don't care. I ain't your momma, but I'm quite possibly old enough to be your momma and as much as this pains me to say, I'm probably old enough to be a granny to one or two of you.

I decided to post this after reading LE's poll and RonRules' observations.

Here it is. The straight skinny. Sometimes, the stuff you don't want to hear is exactly what you NEED to hear.

Ready? Here we go.

The blimp and nascar? Those ideas are not doing %^^& to pull in the votes of older people. And we don't have enough young ones to win this thing. We might have been able to grab all of the youth vote but you see, OBAMA is taking a huge portion, too, and since most everyone hates the GOP right now thanks to W, we're down to slim pickins of the youth vote. So we have GOT to start getting the votes of the OLDER AMERICANS or we cannot win. That's mathematical reality, whether you like it or not.

Bashing Christians is just plain ignorant. Think about it. When you're 24, you don't think you're close to death so you ain't worried about meetin' the Old Master. You hit 60, that shit changes right quick. You find yourself reading the obits and you know most of the dead folks. You'll be taking your tail end to church and having long talks with that God you bashed back when you were only 24. Trust me on this, I do know that of which I speak. Been there, done that. And y'all, Lord willing, will have this same experience.

Bashing old people? Even more ignorant than bashing Christians. Old people vote, and they outnumber you younguns, whether y'all like it or not. Y'all bash 'em and then whine that they don't vote for your guy. Is it any effing wonder they don't vote for Ron? Good Lord, I've heard some of y'all go "canvas" without bothering to shower or comb yer damned hair. That scares the shit out of old people. Y'all coming to the door looking like ... criminals. Shameful! And every one of you knows better. Your mommas would be ashamed of such behavior because I'll guarantee, your mommas raised you better than that. Didn't she?

Wave a "REVOLUTION" banner and chase "that nice clean cut boy Hannity" down the sidewalk throwing shit at him.....and you WONDER why older voters are scared to frikken death of this movement? Y'all are scary when you pull stunts like that! Yeah, it was hilarious to us but to the old folks that was FRIGHTENING. Y'all gotta figure this part out or the old people will keep voting for "that clean cut young mormon" or "that veteran" or "that preacher."

Sheesh I know the public schools are bad but I'd like to think a few of you have brains instead of mush between yer ears.

Though I must admit, after watching the crap some of y'all post...I think we have a large portion of mush minds in our very midst.

Y'all can turn this around but what you've done so far is not working. Listen to the older people who are still here and let them tell you what appeals to those in their age bracket.

Go visit your granny and ask her what is her biggest concern. THAT IS WHAT WE NEED TO ADDRESS.

Now stop your whining and go think of ways to correct this crap.

Most any thread that was started on here that was pro-Christian, was because they got SICK AND TIRED of all the bashing and all the FLAT OUT LIES about our Founders. Calling them Atheists, Agnostics and someone even called them Satanists. The fact is, ANY pro-God thread that was started on here, even if they begged and pleaded to just have ONE THREAD, even if it was a PRAYER THREAD, was succumbed by a bunch of Christian-bashing children (age or behavior) who couldn't manage to control themselves enough to leave them alone. Do you remember? I do.

Do you remember when that Alabama Peanut Festival was going on and the people there worked so tirelessly to setup a tent for Ron Paul campaigning? Do you remember when one of the primaries came back here so upset because a bunch of Deacons, who after visiting the tent and getting a bunch of literature for their congregations, had sent one of their sons to do some research on Ron Paul and who unluckily ended up HERE and got quite an eyeful of the Christian-bashing, etc? Do you remember the primary telling us that ALL of the literature had been returned? DO YOU REMEMBER?

Have all of them been like this? No, there have been some as completely out of line, as the bashers. But, the sheer number pales in comparison.

Note: I don't know how many of you are truly here for the movement, or you're just here to pass the time. Maybe some are even here because the idea of revolution sounds good to you; many of us well knowing that you would just as soon follow Che Guevara as you would Ron Paul, even though they are exact opposites. Some are here to disrupt and to do everything they humanly can do to stop you from taking back your country. Some will mislead you by quoting socialists, who sound real good in theory, but in reality end up causing the citizenry to be in chains. Others will post divisive bullshit, do do just that ---- divide. Still others will just try to convince you to sit on your ass.

The reality is, that if we truly want to have a chance in hell of turning around our country, on any level, we'd better figure out real soon what binds us together. Instead of egging on what we disagree about, we need to remember what we actually AGREED on, and remember that if we don't stand up for our neighbor's liberty (including the liberty of our fellow RP supporter), then we don't stand a chance in hell of convincing anyone else what liberty is about. Because, the bottom line, if we can't respect our fellow RP supporter's faith, then we ourselves have no damn clue what individual liberty even is.

 

[torchbearer]

That's BULLSHIT, Torch. Do you remember all the threads and comments flat out insulting Christians and older Americans, during the campaign? Well, I do. Because as a Moderator, I had to read most of them. They were insulting and they were DISGUSTING.

Face it. WE DROVE PEOPLE OFF FROM THIS MOVEMENT, BECAUSE OF SOME OF YOU ALLS' SPOILED LITTLE BRAT BEHAVIOR. (Not talking about you here, Torch)

It was so bad, it even caused MsDoodahs to write this? Do you remember?



Most any thread that was started on here that was pro-Christian, was because they got SICK AND TIRED of all the bashing and all the FLAT OUT LIES that our Founders were Atheists, Agnostics and someone even called them Satanists.

Have all of them been like this? No, there have been some as completely out of line, as the bashers. But, the sheer number pales in comparison.

That's just how I saw it progress on here.
I'm not emotionally attached to this issue.

 

[Zuras]

Evangelicals, for the most part, believe in a novel theology called 'dispensationalism'. I won't bore you with describing it, suffice to say thier entire world view and philosophy has its foundation on it. It affects how they view the world (they will defend Israel no matter what she does), and the future (they will be 'raptured' out of the world while God tortures humanity for seven years). As you can imagine, this does not leave them optimistic about the future of the world. As a result they care little for it and retreat into thier manmade castles awaiting 'rapture'.
It makes them completely useless in working toward a better world.

First off, most Evangelicals do NOT believe in any of this "protecting Israel at all costs" BS. Those are a minority but they are useful fools for the zionist-owned media, which distors everything they can to further their agenda.

Secondly, I think the reason is that some Conservative Christians have distaste for libertarianism is that these folks are most conservative in regards to social issues. And when it comes to social issues, they see the libertarians as little different than the most left liberals, since even the left liberals will hide their agenda with fork-tongue, while libertarians do not.

 

[emazur]

"I'm Not One Of Those 'Love Thy Neighbor' Christians":
http://www.theonion.com/content/opinion/im_not_one_of_those_love_thy

My faith in the Lord is about the pure, simple values: raising children right, saying grace at the table, strictly forbidding those who are Methodists or Presbyterians from receiving communion because their beliefs are heresies, and curing homosexuals. That's all. Just the core beliefs. You won't see me going on some frothy-mouthed tirade about being a comfort to the downtrodden.

 

[LibertyEagle]

Secondly, I think the reason is that some Conservative Christians have distaste for libertarianism is that these folks are most conservative in regards to social issues. And when it comes to social issues, they see the libertarians as little different than the most left liberals, since even the left liberals will hide their agenda with fork-tongue, while libertarians do not.

Well, let me say this. I am a traditional conservative Christian. From within a few days of my start date here, I almost ran out of here screaming. And actually, many times since. What would always stop me was the fact that I actually know what Ron Paul stands for and I know it pretty well. I am a 2nd generation Ron Paul supporter and have been reading his stuff for over 25 years. Many times I'd have to remind myself that Ron Paul would not agree with what I was seeing here. Otherwise, I would have run from here and this movement, as fast as I could have gone.

That is actually a true story.

So, imagine what many feel if they happened/happen upon this place, hoping to find out more about what Ron Paul and this movement is all about. They don't have the history with Ron Paul, so they're likely going to think what is said here is representative of his beliefs. They don't realize that much of it is not. So, there goes another one.

I've even seen soldiers who came here because they LIKED what Ron Paul said, who were driven out of here by a couple who for some reason hated all soldiers. (I couldn't do anything about it then, because I wasn't a Mod yet). Do you think their behavior is representative of Ron Paul's? Ron Paul who is one of the strongest advocates for Veterans that there is? I doubt it. Do you think he would be proud? I doubt that too. Remember this? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jMDuXVX9OmI

How about the Christian-bashing? Do you think Ron Paul would be proud? Bad as it was during the campaign, it was still better than now.

Someone once said that we should think about what we're saying here and consider whether it is something we would be proud to say in front of Carol Paul. Perhaps we ought to consider that again. Bradley also said something long ago that was very wise. It went something like this.... We are Ron Paul's ambassadors and we should act like it.

 

[PatriotOne]

I can't make people stop hating.
I don't hate christians. I have severe disdain for the people who use their good will faith in a divine for profit and power.

Speaking of using the divine for profit and power.....

I was channel flipping earlier today and stopped on the religion channel only to hear some televangalist telling people to go make a donation to "plant the seeds of Christendom" or something like that. Anyways, he then goes on to explain that they should use their credit card because he knows that people want their balances paid off and if they use it for Godly purposes the divine will pay it off. I wish I had a recording of it .

 

[LibertyEagle]

That is not Christianity, PatriotOne. It's some asshole who is running a scam.

 

[lucius]

Speaking of using the divine for profit and power.....

I was channel flipping earlier today and stopped on the religion channel only to hear some televangalist telling people to go make a donation to "plant the seeds of Christendom" or something like that. Anyways, he then goes on to explain that they should use their credit card because he knows that people want their balances paid off and if they use it for Godly purposes the divine will pay it off. I wish I had a recording of it .

Through my research, I have noticed that I am somewhat agreeing with a luciferian egregore--that sounds like a capital idea! Jane/joe six-pack deserve everything coming their way...

What a scam...They do this because they can...