What causes conflict between Christian Conservative Republicans and libertarians?

[american.swan]

Before Ron Paul woke me up, I voted for democrats. (hangs head in shame)

I think it's easier to convert a Dem to our cause then a GOP member.

 

[american.swan]

because we dont propose to enforce their god's will on others

Actually it's laziness. See the Christians don't really believe what they claim to believe therefore they don't live the life they claim to want to live, so they fail and much use government to "convert" the lost.

 

[heavenlyboy34]

Before Ron Paul woke me up, I voted for democrats. (hangs head in shame)

I think it's easier to convert a Dem to our cause then a GOP member.

+1 I found it easier to convince dems and libs than republicans when I was talking to people during the campaign.

 

[LibertyEagle]

Be careful about lumping everyone together

Actually it's laziness. See the Christians don't really believe what they claim to believe therefore they don't live the life they claim to want to live, so they fail and much use government to "convert" the lost.

Don't group everyone together, swan. Just because someone calls themselves a Christian, does not mean that they are, you know. Nor, does it mean they are following Christ's teachings.

 

[JVParkour]

Well, I am 19, so I may not be the general "Christian Conservative" but I do have a good perspective since i've been to church my whole life and want to double major in Religious Studies and Economics.

In my experience, the easiest way to explain the freedom and liberty mindset to an evangelical is like this. God gave and continues to give humans freedom of choice. ie sin, lust, foul language, sin in general. He didn't force us to live the right way, which makes our choice to live that way all the more special. We (Ron Paul Republicans) want every person to be allowed to do and say as they please. You be able to follow your religion and what it says, and a gay person to do what they feel is right for them. Since you have free speech you can talk to them, and tell them that you think they are wrong, but the ultimate decision is up to them. This is what God did for us.

Then they usually say that if we let everyone do what they want then abortion will be allowed. At this point you bust em with something along the lines of 'This freedom is allowed as long as no one else's rights are infringed upon. And in the case of abortion, the right of the baby is infringed upon, its right to life.

Sorry for the long post, but I have found this works pretty well...

 

[american.swan]

Don't group everyone together, swan. Just because someone calls themselves a Christian, does not mean that they are, you know. Nor, does it mean they are following Christ's teachings.

I wrote what I did fully knowing and agreeing with what you are saying here. I personally don't want to be called "a Christian" because I am not like Christ.

 

[american.swan]

Well, I am 19, so I may not be the general "Christian Conservative" but I do have a good perspective since i've been to church my whole life and want to double major in Religious Studies and Economics.

In my experience, the easiest way to explain the freedom and liberty mindset to an evangelical is like this. God gave and continues to give humans freedom of choice. ie sin, lust, foul language, sin in general. He didn't force us to live the right way, which makes our choice to live that way all the more special. We (Ron Paul Republicans) want every person to be allowed to do and say as they please. You be able to follow your religion and what it says, and a gay person to do what they feel is right for them. Since you have free speech you can talk to them, and tell them that you think they are wrong, but the ultimate decision is up to them. This is what God did for us.

Then they usually say that if we let everyone do what they want then abortion will be allowed. At this point you bust em with something along the lines of 'This freedom is allowed as long as no one else's rights are infringed upon. And in the case of abortion, the right of the baby is infringed upon, its right to life.

Sorry for the long post, but I have found this works pretty well...

Good advice.

 

[Live_Free_Or_Die]

nt

 

[Grimnir Wotansvolk]

Anti-Fed's signature has the answer to this: "Reform cannot be achieved by a well-intentioned leader who recruits his followers from the very people whose moral confusion is the cause of the disorder." - Socrates

Christians, by definition, are authority worshippers. Now, obviously to varying degrees; ranging from being utterly deranged by legal positivism and patriotism to those who see God as a higher authority than human law. But ultimately, they all find themselves unquestioningly bowing to some form of authority at some point.

And when you're taught to believe in moral absolutes, black & white dichotomies, divinity, sin, etc., the desire to invade the private lives of others isn't anything but natural.

The libertarian philosophy involves accepting that, "what's good for me doesn't necessarily apply to those around me." If Christians were to go along with this, that would mean admitting that their divine, universal truth is in fact not universal at all. That's the kind of cognitive paradox that would fry a robot's circuitry.

 

[Live_Free_Or_Die]

nt

 

[Eric21ND]

Because we are the intellectual wing, they are just busy-bodies bible thumpers

 

[torchbearer]

Because we are the intellectual wing, they are just busy-bodies bible thumpers

Every time a bible is thumped, Jesus sheds a tear.

 

[LibertyEagle]

Anti-Fed's signature has the answer to this: "Reform cannot be achieved by a well-intentioned leader who recruits his followers from the very people whose moral confusion is the cause of the disorder." - Socrates

Christians, by definition, are authority worshippers.

Speak for yourself, bud.

Now, obviously to varying degrees; ranging from being utterly deranged by legal positivism and patriotism to those who see God as a higher authority than human law.

Interesting perspective, but wrong. Collectivism much dude?

But ultimately, they all find themselves unquestioningly bowing to some form of authority at some point.

Oh, you do too, whether you realize it or not.

And when you're taught to believe in moral absolutes, black & white dichotomies, divinity, sin, etc., the desire to invade the private lives of others isn't anything but natural.

So, in your mind, everything is a big sea of gray?

The libertarian philosophy involves accepting that, "what's good for me doesn't necessarily apply to those around me."

True, however, that only goes up to the point where you start infringing on someone else's liberty. I also thought that libertarians subscribed to the axiom of non-aggression? If so, don't you think sticking forceps in the base of a baby's skull and stirring it around in their brains, just might be a bit aggressive? Then, suctioning or pulling them out, limb by torn apart limb.

If Christians were to go along with this, that would mean admitting that their divine, universal truth is in fact not universal at all. That's the kind of cognitive paradox that would fry a robot's circuitry.

If some libertarians would walk their talk, they wouldn't be advocating murdering defenseless fetuses.

 

[Grimnir Wotansvolk]

I've always been staunchly anti-abortion, LE

 

[devil21]

I literally got searched out on YouTube by a bible thumper so he could post an offensive comment to my profile, which is full of RP Favorites, noting my support of Gazans "who create IEDs that kill women and children" (lol) and talking about "My lord Satan" because of my handle. I was tempted to respond with some choice biblical passages that evangelicals tend to forget (The Golden Rule, for example) but I realize there's no getting through to people like that.

 

[LibertyEagle]

Yes. if you are in a minority. Please shut up.

What minority are you talking about? Rude people who refuse to stop insulting another fellow RP supporters' faith? If that is what you want the freedom to do, then NO, you don't have the right to do that here.

 

[torchbearer]

 

[micahnelson]

Who do "Label" "Label" "Label" hate "Label" so Much?

This thread needs to die.

 

[RonPaulMania]

Well I don't know why they "hate" you guys so bad. Maybe it has to do with the fact so many of you are so anti-God, use horrible logic to make points, and mock people with blasphemies and obscenities and the like.

Really it escapes me. Why can't we be decent and proper in our manners to everyone? Want to recruit Christians? Many of them, like many of you, base their arguments on emotions (while you fail to realize it) so if you could emotionally connect with them that you aren't rude, obnoxious and mock religion you might open a dialogue. Christians are actually easy to convert to the cause, but they cannot see your point while using "F" words, blaspheming and the like. Also the sophmoric arguments against religion here aren't even good, even the great Grimnir Wotansvolk can't understand his own arguments, let alone how to structure one.

Those are some tips. I should know, I'm part of a group of people that are Christians for liberty and most of the time you would be shocked where the movement really is and they need to feel like they belong because who wants to be part of a group that mocks others.

 

[Truth Warrior]

Maybe it's only because some of us don't buy into their lame and pathetic bullshit.