We're All Ready Fascist.

[cageybee]

You proved that our government is too big and has too much control. You failed to mention how complete control and a complete tax would be a better option.

no, i proved that US government is a mafia that has no respect for humanity and does things that are immoral and unethical, and you are just like it by paying your taxes and supporting whatever it does.

some guy I was talking to about a year ago and he was talking about how he is not happy about a war in iraq and that he does not want to associate himself with US government. I asked him to stop with the lies, because he is paying the taxes to make sure that US government does what it does. he told me that everyone has to pay taxes. i told him to either shut the fuck up about what he is saying about iraq or go to prison for not paying taxes or leave USA.

 

[clouds]

And how does this contradict your system? You are trying to condemn me us by telling us we adhere to your ideal already.

 

[Mini-Me]

that just proves that you are not free - you are a slave of the big brother - you do whatever he wants you to do - he does whatever he wants to do.

Yes, you're right. Nobody is disagreeing with you here. Where you go wrong is insisting this is the fault of "capitalism" when it's really the fault of government. The only way out of slavery is to severely downsize the government and make it as difficult as possible for the government to ever grow so powerful again.

 

[torchbearer]

WHy do I get the feeling we are talking to a 12 year old kid? I've illustrated(even with a photo) the evil of the system he praises and all he can say is well, you guys have bad people too...

Yeh, our bad people are the same as your bad people.. and they both want the same thing. power.

What we want here... the people who support ROn Paul... we want freedom, we want our god given rights, and we want to live unmolested by others...
If you can't agree with that... your are brainwashed severely or just not intellectually developed enough... which usually comes with age... thus the assumption that i must be talking to a 12 year old.
these concepts are not hard to grasp to someone who can think in the abstract.

 

[Mini-Me]

no, i proved that US government is a mafia that has no respect for humanity and does things that are immoral and unethical, and you are just like it by paying your taxes and supporting whatever it does.

Your "proof" is obscenely fallacious.
We are not just like the government because we pay taxes. We are forced to pay taxes at the point of a gun, and we resist as strongly as we can without foolishly killing ourselves off early and leaving the world to the mercy of tyrants. As you said, the government controls us and steals our wealth for its own purposes - and so it is under Communism. As I said in my last post...the only solution is to greatly downsize and decentralize government.

some guy I was talking to about a year ago and he was talking about how he is not happy about a war in iraq and that he does not want to associate himself with US government. I asked him to stop with the lies, because he is paying the taxes to make sure that US government does what it does. he told me that everyone has to pay taxes. i told him to either shut the fuck up about what he is saying about iraq or go to prison for not paying taxes or leave USA.

False dilemma. There are three major options here:

• Live under tyranny oblivious to or accepting of your predicament
• Foolishly lash out against the government by refusing to pay taxes or feed the monster before you actually have a chance of winning. Somehow, "attacking your enemy when you're at your weakest and they're at their strongest" doesn't seem to be a good long-term strategy. It makes a moral point, but it doesn't achieve anything else.
• Live under tyranny in full awareness of your predicament and do whatever you can, within legal means, to change the system. If you're lucky, you can wake enough people up that, in time, they will rise up and peacefully downsize the government. If you're unlucky, society will eventually reach a "point of no return" on its road to tyranny...and then, you have to start making the really hard decisions.

 

[cageybee]

And how does this contradict your system? You are trying to condemn me us by telling us we adhere to your ideal already.

you do not adhere to my ideals.

i want to live free in a world where money is not God for people. where all people are equal with no one hungry. where people judge men not by their cars or homes, but by their characters, education, and values. where people that win elections are not those that had lots of money for advertising to idiots, but those that actually have brains to be the global leaders. i want to live in a world where i don't have to work 3 jobs to make sure that my family gets food - why does rothschild or rockefeller have trillions laying around while we are killing ourselves at 3 jobs??? i want to live in the world without millions of SUVs that eatup the gas and drive the prices of oil up and where people share transportation. i want to live in a world without hypocrites like al gore who make movies about global warming, but pay $30,000/year on home utility bills. etc, etc, etc.

 

[torchbearer]

you do not adhere to my ideals.

i want to live free in a world where money is not God for people. where all people are equal with no one hungry. where people judge men not by their cars or homes, but by their characters, education, and values. where people that win elections are not those that had lots of money for advertising to idiots, but those that actually have brains to be the global leaders. i want to live in a world where i don't have to work 3 jobs to make sure that my family gets food - why does rothschild or rockefeller have trillions laying around while we are killing ourselves at 3 jobs??? i want to live in the world without millions of SUVs that eatup the gas and drive the prices of oil up and where people share transportation. etc, etc, etc.

where do i sign up? sounds like paradise! tomorrow i'll be by to pick up your property so i can give it to some people i know that need it more than you do.. in fact, i took a vote on it.. and you were out voted 999999 to 1 which means the greater good demand the things you have belong to me because i have nothing to eat and you do and that's not fair, so just pm me your street address and i'll be by tomorrow to make your dreams come true.

 

[cageybee]

Your "proof" is obscenely fallacious.
We are not just like the government because we pay taxes. We are forced to pay taxes at the point of a gun, and we resist as strongly as we can without foolishly killing ourselves off early and leaving the world to the mercy of tyrants. As you said, the government controls us and steals our wealth for its own purposes - and so it is under Communism. As I said in my last post...the only solution is to greatly downsize and decentralize government.



False dilemma.

no one is holding you under a gun. the doors are open. you are free to go. except, you do not wish to go, because you like this way of life and don't mind paying taxes.

hypocrite!

 

[cageybee]

Yes, you're right. Nobody is disagreeing with you here. Where you go wrong is insisting this is the fault of "capitalism" when it's really the fault of government.

ok, how do you propose we defend ourselves if we don't pay taxes? i mean, there are so many "terrorists" out there.

people are scared sheep. if they stop paying taxes today, tomorrow, someone will create another fear for these sheep and people will start paying the taxes again!

 

[cageybee]

where do i sign up? sounds like paradise! tomorrow i'll be by to pick up your property so i can give it to some people i know that need it more than you do.. in fact, i took a vote on it.. and you were out voted 999999 to 1 which means the greater good demand the things you have belong to me because i have nothing to eat and you do and that's not fair, so just pm me your street address and i'll be by tomorrow to make your dreams come true.

a true capitalist for whom money is God just spoken.

 

[Mini-Me]

no one is holding you under a gun. the doors are open. you are free to go. except, you do not wish to go, because you like this way of life and don't mind paying taxes.

hypocrite!

Where should I go that is not similarly falling to tyranny? No free country exists in the world anymore. I stay here because this is my HOME, this is where my loved ones live, and this is the only country in the world that was EVER built on the ideal of freedom. I will not flee like some coward, but nor will I foolishly lash out like some brainless idiot. As I mentioned in my last post, once I edited it to elaborate, lashing out only makes a moral point. It changes nothing...my aim is, together with other like-minded people, to affect real change. The only way to succeed is with a sound strategy based on logic, rather than by throwing an emotional temper tantrum like you suggest.

 

[Mini-Me]

ok, how do you propose we defend ourselves if we don't pay taxes? i mean, there are so many "terrorists" out there.

people are scared sheep. if they stop paying taxes today, tomorrow, someone will create another fear for these sheep and people will start paying the taxes again!

...you're making no sense. The whole point of this revolution is to show people that they do not NEED to fear terrorists if our country merely treats the rest of the world with respect. The whole point is to change the hearts and minds of people so that they will no longer tolerate a leviathan government that finds excuses to tax and spend and subjugate the people.

 

[clouds]

You don't even know what money is. It is supposed to represent what we produce. It is our production that money symbolizes. Elimination of money is like saying you will eliminate production.

 

[Mini-Me]

a true capitalist for whom money is God just spoken.

Are you dense? He was satirizing Marxism.

 

[Elliott]

Can somebody correct this thread title to read: "already" instead of "all ready." That's making my ears bleed.

 

[clouds]

to elaborate, money's only meaning is what it is backed by. Ayn rand does put it quite eloquently in the same speech from earlier:

"Whenever destroyers appear among men, they start by destroying money, for money is men's protection and the base of a moral existence. Destroyers seize gold and leave to its owners a counterfeit piece of paper. This kills all objective standards and delivers men into the arbitrary power of an arbitrary setter of values. Gold was an objective value, an equivalent of wealth produced. Paper is a mortgage on wealth that does not exist, backed by a gun aimed at those who are expected to produce it. Paper is a check drawn by legal looters upon an account which is not theirs: upon the virtue of the victims. Watch for the day when it bounces, marked:'Account overdrawn.'"

 

[torchbearer]

Are you dense? He was satirizing Marxism.

Correct he is dense. That is the trap i set.

 

[Mini-Me]

WHy do I get the feeling we are talking to a 12 year old kid? I've illustrated(even with a photo) the evil of the system he praises and all he can say is well, you guys have bad people too...

Yeh, our bad people are the same as your bad people.. and they both want the same thing. power.

What we want here... the people who support ROn Paul... we want freedom, we want our god given rights, and we want to live unmolested by others...
If you can't agree with that... your are brainwashed severely or just not intellectually developed enough... which usually comes with age... thus the assumption that i must be talking to a 12 year old.
these concepts are not hard to grasp to someone who can think in the abstract.

Based on his apparent picture, I don't think he's a 12 year old, but I do think he has really unstable thinking processes with an uncommonly loose grip on logic. I think he's likely the product of Soviet indoctrination, a chemical imbalance, or both. His hysteria and disjointed irrationality actually remind me a bit of ghemminger, but at least George isn't a totalitarian asshole. Over a month ago, I noticed some posts he made on digg, and I thought to myself, "Wow...childish and hysterical rantings like his are definitely making us look like morons. I really wish he was supporting Obama or something instead of Ron Paul." Well, I guess my wish pretty much came true - I mean, Obama, Stalin...either way, you end up with totalitarianism in the long run. Stalin just wastes less time.

Correct he is dense. That is the trap i set.

Yeah...basic reading comprehension skills seem to be lacking. I wonder if he thinks Colbert is the spitting neocon image of Bill O'Reilly?

 

[clouds]

Does he actually believe that capitalism works that way?

 

[clouds]

Based on his apparent picture, I don't think he's a 12 year old, but I do think he has really unstable thinking processes with an uncommonly loose grip on logic. I think he's likely the product of Soviet indoctrination, a chemical imbalance, or both. His hysteria and disjointed irrationality actually remind me a bit of ghemminger, but at least George isn't a totalitarian asshole. Over a month ago, I noticed some posts he made on digg, and I thought to myself, "Wow...childish and hysterical rantings like his are definitely making us look like morons. I really wish he was supporting Obama or something instead of Ron Paul." Well, I guess my wish pretty much came true - I mean, Obama, Stalin...either way, you end up with totalitarianism in the long run. Stalin just wastes less time.

My problem is that he reminds me of the state intellectuals in Atlas Shrugged. i couldn't help but use quotes from it(I'm still reading, almost done) but it all feels inadequate compared to someone reading the book.