We already have a North American Union, it's called the United States.

[srps2233]

Consider: most states in the country known as "United States of America" are many times bigger than sovereign states around the world. There is so much fear about Canada, Mexico, and the US joining and having one government---would someone explain to me how that is any worse than, say, California, Alaska, and Rhode Island--places so far apart and so different--being united in one government? IMO if you're going to complain about Canada/Mexico/US, you should also be advocating dissolving the North American Union that already exists.

No one complained when the thirteen colonies joined with the Northwest territories, the Louisiana purchase, etc, into a North American Union. Why the big deal now?

Futhermore, the US has repeatedly tried to annex Canada and Mexico (see: the entire Western United States) and overtake THEIR national sovereignty, why should we be fearing them?

 

[Dr.3D]

Emm... it would be fine if they wanted to adopt the United States Constitution and become part of the United States.

 

[srps2233]

Rhode Island is a pretty small state, why don't we just make each person their own state? That way each state can decide for themselves whether they want gay marriage and things like that rather than being beholden to the federal government.

 

[JeffSchulman]

Yay for individual sovereignty!

 

[RickSp]

Futhermore, the US has repeatedly tried to annex Canada and Mexico (see: the entire Western United States) and overtake THEIR national sovereignty, why should we be fearing them?

I agree Mexico and Canada have much more to fear from the US than the other way around.

 

[lavis88]

We already have companies like Ford (just to name one off the top of my head) moving cheap labor to Mexico, now just think of one of the consequences when we have a North American Union that basically eliminates our borders and makes the travel among people in the continent more free. Where will our jobs go? If you think government is too big now, just think about when we have a North American government.

 

[Signzit]

It's not really about Mexico or Canada, it's about international rule of law.
It's a slippery slope. Where does it stop... France? lol

More and more layers of governance over, "We the People" it really is, just that simple! The Founding Fathers were damn wise folks.

The NAU will be a militarized socialist police state with a corporatist agenda. You will become a copper-top working for credits. Your credits will be added to those of the other copper-tops from, the African Union, the European Union, the Asian Union, Pan-Asian & Pacific Rim Union and other Unions i can't think of right now. They are already there, just look.

Besides, it's against the Constitution.

Please see this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X6b4YrXayzE

 

[RickSp]

We already have companies like Ford (just to name one off the top of my head) moving cheap labor to Mexico, now just think of one of the consequences when we have a North American Union that basically eliminates our borders and makes the travel among people in the continent more free. Where will our jobs go? If you think government is too big now, just think about when we have a North American government.

And companies like Toyota have been building auto plants in the US. Six and half million US jobs are "insourced" from foreign companies. Insourced jobs also tend to pay more than purely domestic jobs.

"INSOURCING" - When Foreign Companies Establish Jobs in the U.S.

Insourced Jobs Pay More

Why is it that conservatives are so afraid of free trade? Or is it fear of Canadians? Or Mexicans? Or maybe of highways? Free trade is no threat to our sovereignty.

 

[RickSp]

The NAU will be a militarized socialist police state with a corporatist agenda. You will become a copper-top working for credits. Your credits will be added to those of the other copper-tops from, the African Union, the European Union, the Asian Union, Pan-Asian & Pacific Rim Union and other Unions i can't think of right now. They are already there, just look.

I believe your tin-foil hat is on crooked.

 

[deanne]

And companies like Toyota have been building auto plants in the US. Six and half million US jobs are "insourced" from foreign companies. Insourced jobs also tend to pay more than purely domestic jobs.

"INSOURCING" - When Foreign Companies Establish Jobs in the U.S.

Insourced Jobs Pay More

Why is it that conservatives are so afraid of free trade? Or is it fear of Canadians? Or Mexicans? Or maybe of highways? Free trade is no threat to our sovereignty.

I don't think anybody who really understands and agrees with Paul would have a problem with truly free trade, or with Toyota building autoplants here. It seems to me that without subsidies US automakers might have been gone a while ago. (Although in the absence of legislation that 'strengthened' (allowed violence among) auto unions, they could probably compete just fine without subsidies, and I could afford a ford truck that gets better gas mileage.)
But your point that 'insourcing' is occurring and pays, is good.
The 'pro-america' at all costs nonsense that goes around is really catching especially among conservatives. It must be tied to the blind belief in supporting military action, always, that is, as long as it's initiated by a Republican president. Too bad that those economic policies allow corporate subsidies while individual liberty suffers at all points. The trend away from individual rights towards nationalism and party-ism is frightening.

The problem with the NAU, is that the people effectively have no control over this. Things are moving forward without going through Congress at all, or by being rushed through without necessary Congressional attention. As others have said earlier, Mexican and Canadian officials are not bound by our Constitution and certainly have no more respect for it than our current government.
We have enough runaway government intrusion into privacy, we don't need Canada's influence (half my family is Canadian btw so I get the 'on the ground' feeling about Canada's policies on health care, guns, property etc).

Talk to the people whose homes are in the path of the proposed Tx corridor, talk to the people whose ranchland, the only thing they have to pass down to their kids, will be taken by emminent domain when that highway moves through. They tell us we'll get stores and fast-food places lining the highway; but I don't know any cowboys who'd rather work at McDonalds, and I don't know anybody who'd rather look upon a see of chain stores rather than a sea cattle.

 

[deanne]

And companies like Toyota have been building auto plants in the US. Six and half million US jobs are "insourced" from foreign companies. Insourced jobs also tend to pay more than purely domestic jobs.

"INSOURCING" - When Foreign Companies Establish Jobs in the U.S.

Insourced Jobs Pay More

Why is it that conservatives are so afraid of free trade? Or is it fear of Canadians? Or Mexicans? Or maybe of highways? Free trade is no threat to our sovereignty.

I don't think anybody who really understands and agrees with Paul would have a problem with truly free trade, or with Toyota building autoplants here. It seems to me that without subsidies US automakers might have been gone a while ago. (Although in the absence of legislation that 'strengthened' (allowed violence by) auto unions, they could probably compete just fine without subsidies, and I could afford a new chevy truck that gets better gas mileage.)

But your point that 'insourcing' is occurring and pays, is good.
The 'pro-america' at all costs nonsense that goes around is really catching especially among conservatives. It must be tied to the blind belief in supporting military action, always, that is, as long as it's initiated by a Republican president. Too bad that those economic policies allow corporate subsidies while individual liberty suffers at all points. The trend away from individual rights towards nationalism and party-ism is frightening.

The problem with the NAU, is that the people effectively have no control over this. Things are moving forward without going through Congress at all, or by being rushed through without necessary Congressional attention. As others have said earlier, Mexican and Canadian officials are not bound by our Constitution and certainly have no more respect for it than our current government.
We have enough runaway government intrusion into privacy, we don't need Canada's influence (half my family is Canadian btw so I get the 'on the ground' feeling about Canada's policies on health care, guns, property etc).

Talk to the people whose homes are in the path of the proposed Tx corridor, talk to the people whose ranchland, the only thing they have to pass down to their kids, will be taken by emminent domain when that highway moves through. They tell them they'll get stores and fast-food places lining the highway; but I don't know any cowboys who'd rather work at McDonalds, and I don't know anybody who'd rather look upon a sea of chain stores rather than a sea cattle. But, as long as things continue, it will happen, and those are the options we'll be left with.

 

[RickSp]

The problem with the NAU, is that the people effectively have no control over this. Things are moving forward without going through Congress at all, or by being rushed through without necessary Congressional attention. As others have said earlier, Mexican and Canadian officials are not bound by our Constitution and certainly have no more respect for it than our current government.
We have enough runaway government intrusion into privacy, we don't need Canada's influence (half my family is Canadian btw so I get the 'on the ground' feeling about Canada's policies on health care, guns, property etc).

Talk to the people whose homes are in the path of the proposed Tx corridor, talk to the people whose ranchland, the only thing they have to pass down to their kids, will be taken by emminent domain when that highway moves through. They tell them they'll get stores and fast-food places lining the highway; but I don't know any cowboys who'd rather work at McDonalds, and I don't know anybody who'd rather look upon a sea of chain stores rather than a sea cattle. But, as long as things continue, it will happen, and those are the options we'll be left with.

The problem with NAU is that is is mostly paranoid fantasy. We are not going to be taken over by either Canada nor Mexico. And the expansion of existing highways, if by some chance it actaully ever happens, will not be driving cowboys from ranches or destroying whole towns as some, including Paul have claimed.

 

[Philmanoman]

yeah...ok...nothing will be in the path of a highway 4 football fields wide...no homes or ranches...they just put up highways with nothing obstructing its path.

 

[dsentell]

There will be an unbelievable redistribution of wealth. The US and Canada will pay for new infracture to raise the level of Mexico. American and Canadian standards of living will be reduced to raise that of Mexico making us all on a more even keel.

Might not be bad if you are Mexican. Americans and Canadians will be the losers.

 

[kill the banks]

your independence ie usa is an illusion ... you have never really gained what you think ... research it and you will find out for yourself ~ you are owned by elite bankers and are a corporation and still a colony ... the truth is a folly of lies and manipulation but your real enemy starts with rothschild [& the crown] notwithstanding other elite families today

kill the banks

 

[RickSp]

yeah...ok...nothing will be in the path of a highway 4 football fields wide...no homes or ranches...they just put up highways with nothing obstructing its path.

Are you really afraid of a road? Frightened of asphalt? Cowering before concrete? Sounds awfully cowardly to me. I thought Americans were made of sterner stuff.

Hell most of it is already there. It is called Interstate 35 and it runs from Laredo, Texas, on the U.S.-Mexico border to Duluth, Minnesota. It already exists and the fabric of our civilization hasn't collapsed. And if in fact it is expanded, not much will change except that some transport cost will decline modestly.

Paranoid fantasies only get in the way of the cause of liberty. Time to take off the tin foil hats.

 

[Mini-Me]

Are you really afraid of a road? Frightened of asphalt? Cowering before concrete? Sounds awfully cowardly to me. I thought Americans were made of sterner stuff.

Hell most of it is already there. It is called Interstate 35 and it runs from Laredo, Texas, on the U.S.-Mexico border to Duluth, Minnesota. It already exists and the fabric of our civilization hasn't collapsed. And if in fact it is expanded, not much will change except that some transport cost will decline modestly.

Paranoid fantasies only get in the way of the cause of liberty. Time to take off the tin foil hats.

It's time for you to get off your high horse and stuff your condescending "paranoid fantasies" comments right back up your asshole whence they came. There are two reasons why the highway by itself upsets people, and one of them is a very simple two-word phrase: Eminent domain. Ever hear of it? The other reason why the highway by itself upsets people is their fear that it will spark a flood of illegal immigration...and while I'm not sure whether or not those concerns are warranted by the highway itself, people are certainly right to fear mass illegal immigration: Until the government stops using taxpayer money to subsidize illegals (which it won't without the help of someone like Ron Paul), the prospect of mass illegal immigration is economically disastrous. Many hospitals in the southwest have already had to close because of this.

Now, the NAU in broader terms is horrifying for several reasons, and none of them have anything to do with a fear of Canada or Mexico. This supposed "fear of Canada and Mexico taking over" is just a straw-man argument designed to obfuscate the real issue of sovereignty loss. When it comes down to it, Mexico and Canada have just as much to fear from a North American Union as we do, and the people of all of our countries have a common interest in fighting against this. Here are the real reasons why the NAU is such a threat to us:

• At the very best, accepting the NAU would cede more national sovereignty to unelected supranational officials, UN-style or EU-style. If we look at what the EU is doing to formerly sovereign nations over in Europe, we have plenty to fear from even this best-case scenario. The EU has completely walked all over the sovereignty of its member nations, and there are a lot of people over there wondering how they could have ever made such a grave mistake.
• In addition, the NAU will eventually introduce a new common fiat currency, e.g. the Amero or the Phoenix. While our own dollar has been completely destroyed by the Federal Reserve and our outrageous spending habits, Congress still does technically have the power to oversee (and abolish!) the Federal Reserve, despite the fact that they have clearly abdicated this duty. However, once we adopt a regional currency, we the people will no longer have any power or control over it (through our representatives), even in theory. We are already in dire straights, but the NAU will eventually render us absolutely helpless against the counterfeiting practices of international bankers.
• At the worst, the NAU may usher in the official death of the US Constitution. I highly doubt this would happen immediately, but I wouldn't be surprised if it happened a few years down the road. While we haven't been paying attention to the Constitution for a long time anyway, it will be a totally different ballgame when all pretenses are dropped and the United States Constitution becomes officially irrelevant to government.
• If you can cast away your self-righteous superiority complex over "tinfoil hat conspiracy theorists" for just a moment, perhaps you might be able to read between the lines and understand that the NAU is simply a small part of the bigger picture. Please do not tell me that you have not noticed the gradual erosion of national sovereignty and the obvious tendency toward establishing supranational governmental bodies... Regardless of whether or not you're willing to acknowledge that this is a deliberate plot (by those who will clearly benefit from it...), it would be absurd for you to outright deny this trend. The NAU is just one more stepping-stone on the path to a one-world government. None of us can really know for sure whether such a one-world government will eventually be obvious and direct or if it will simply exist as a sovereign layer over subservient regional governments over subservient national governments, but the effect is the same: Total loss of sovereignty and political representation, and we all know where that leads.

 

[Signzit]

It's time for you to get off your high horse and stuff your condescending "paranoid fantasies" comments right back up your asshole whence they came. There are two reasons why the highway by itself upsets people, and one of them is a very simple two-word phrase: Eminent domain. Ever hear of it? The other reason why the highway by itself upsets people is their fear that it will spark a flood of illegal immigration...and while I'm not sure whether or not those concerns are warranted by the highway itself, people are certainly right to fear mass illegal immigration: Until the government stops using taxpayer money to subsidize illegals (which it won't without the help of someone like Ron Paul), the prospect of mass illegal immigration is economically disastrous. Many hospitals in the southwest have already had to close because of this.

Now, the NAU in broader terms is horrifying for several reasons, and none of them have anything to do with a fear of Canada or Mexico. This supposed "fear of Canada and Mexico taking over" is just a straw-man argument designed to obfuscate the real issue of sovereignty loss. When it comes down to it, Mexico and Canada have just as much to fear from a North American Union as we do, and the people of all of our countries have a common interest in fighting against this. Here are the real reasons why the NAU is such a threat to us:

• At the very best, accepting the NAU would cede more national sovereignty to unelected supranational officials, UN-style or EU-style. If we look at what the EU is doing to formerly sovereign nations over in Europe, we have plenty to fear from even this best-case scenario. The EU has completely walked all over the sovereignty of its member nations, and there are a lot of people over there wondering how they could have ever made such a grave mistake.
• In addition, the NAU will eventually introduce a new common fiat currency, e.g. the Amero or the Phoenix. While our own dollar has been completely destroyed by the Federal Reserve and our outrageous spending habits, Congress still does technically have the power to oversee (and abolish!) the Federal Reserve, despite the fact that they have clearly abdicated this duty. However, once we adopt a regional currency, we the people will no longer have any power or control over it (through our representatives), even in theory. We are already in dire straights, but the NAU will eventually render us absolutely helpless against the counterfeiting practices of international bankers.
• At the worst, the NAU may usher in the official death of the US Constitution. I highly doubt this would happen immediately, but I wouldn't be surprised if it happened a few years down the road. While we haven't been paying attention to the Constitution for a long time anyway, it will be a totally different ballgame when all pretenses are dropped and the United States Constitution becomes officially irrelevant to government.
• If you can cast away your self-righteous superiority complex over "tinfoil hat conspiracy theorists" for just a moment, perhaps you might be able to read between the lines and understand that the NAU is simply a small part of the bigger picture. Please do not tell me that you have not noticed the gradual erosion of national sovereignty and the obvious tendency toward establishing supranational governmental bodies... Regardless of whether or not you're willing to acknowledge that this is a deliberate plot (by those who will clearly benefit from it...), it would be absurd for you to outright deny this trend. The NAU is just one more stepping-stone on the path to a one-world government. None of us can really know for sure whether such a one-world government will eventually be obvious and direct or if it will simply exist as a sovereign layer over subservient regional governments over subservient national governments, but the effect is the same: Total loss of sovereignty and political representation, and we all know where that leads.

QTF!
Give'm hell -Me

 

[Mini-Me]

I forgot to mention:
As a side note, dsentell said that the NAU would also result in an unbelievable redistribution of wealth, and he is correct...however, I doubt that even Mexicans will benefit from this. In the end, only corporate shareholders and executives will. Our government's heavy-handed involvement in our economy (corporate welfare and subsidies, outrageous taxes and wasteful spending, the inflation tax, and regulations) destroys free-market competition and simultaneously keeps our economy much smaller than it needs to be to support our population. Leaving the how's and why's to another discussion, this ultimately results in a surplus of workers vying for a shortage of jobs at an unnaturally small number of competing companies. In terms of both consumers and workers, this means that supply and demand is working well in the favor of existing corporations. Merging with Canada won't exacerbate this situation too badly, but merging with Mexico will add tons of workers but few new companies and jobs, further pushing supply and demand to the advantage of incumbent companies...this will result in even lower wages and benefits for all but the "cream of the crop" who benefit from this. Of course, even many of them will eventually suffer the consequences as well, because the wealth gap (caused by government meddling) is self-reinforcing and eventually results in lower and lower consumption and savings overall (because the economy begins to shrink at an accelerating rate, since people start being able to afford less and less). The governments' practices (like excess taxation and monetary inflation) are quite effective at destroying the middle class all by themselves, but the indirect consequence of an artificially small and uncompetitive economy (uncompetitive for large corporations, at least) is even more disastrous.

That said, the NAU would really not create any new economic problems for us - it would only make our existing ones that much worse. Such problems are not terribly difficult to deal with as long as we keep our sovereignty and manage to vote in some honest and courageous Ron Paul-esque politicians (...I'm not holding my breath, though ). Unfortunately, once the NAU is created and we lose our sovereignty, the power to fix this problem (and others) will likely be well out of our reach.

 

[billyjoeallen]

Also, we already have a mutual defense treaty. It's called the U.S. Constitution.

We even have a free trade treaty: the interstate commerce clause.