Was America founded on Judeo-Christian Principles? Of Course it was!

[yongrel]

Here is an excellent video by historian/author David Barton of WallBuilders which unequivocally proves that America was established on Christian principles and the Founders' intent was for this country to be a Christian nation. If you have any disputes or questions about this presentation, you can contact WallBuilders by phone at (817) 441-6044 or by e-mail at [email protected].

I pray this video will answer any questions concerning the religious intent of our Founding Fathers as well as clear up any confusion by setting the record straight about our country's religious heritage. May the naysayers and scoffers be forever silenced!

"America's Godly Heritage" (Part 1)

"America's Godly Heritage" (Part 2)

... Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's; and unto God the things that are God's.
-- Jesus, Matthew 22:21


"Christianity neither is, nor ever was, a part of the common law."
-Thomas Jefferson

"History, I believe, furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people maintaining a free civil government. This marks the lowest grade of ignorance of which their civil as well as religious leaders will always avail themselves for their own purposes."
-Thomas Jefferson

"In every country and in every age, the priest has been hostile to liberty."
-Thomas Jefferson

"I may grow rich by an art I am compelled to follow; I may recover health by medicines I am compelled to take against my own judgment; but I cannot be saved by a worship I disbelieve and abhor."
-Thomas Jefferson

"If by religion we are to understand sectarian dogmas, in which no two of them agree, then your exclamation on that hypothesis is just, "that this would be the best of worlds if there were no religion in it.""
-Thomas Jefferson

"The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the Supreme Being as his father, in the womb of a virgin, will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter."
-Thomas Jefferson

"Every new & successful example of a perfect separation between ecclesiastical and civil matters is of importance."
-James Madison

"And I have no doubt that every new example will succeed, as every past one has done, in shewing that religion & Govt will both exist in greater purity, the less they are mixed together."
-James Madison

"Religious bondage shackles and debilitates the mind and unfits it for every noble enterprize, every expanded prospect."
-James Madison

"Persecution is not an original feature in any religion; but it is always the strongly marked feature of all religions established by law. Take away the law-establishment, and every religion re-assumes its original benignity."
-Thomas Paine

"It is from the Bible that man has learned cruelty, rapine and murder; for the belief of a cruel God makes a cruel man."
-Thomas Paine

"Of all the tyrannies that afflict mankind, tyranny in religion is the worst. Every other species of tyranny is limited to the world we live in, but this attempts a stride beyond the grave and seeks to pursue us into eternity."
-Thomas Paine

"The Christian system of religion is an outrage on common sense."
-Thomas Paine

"Yet this is trash that the Church imposes upon the world as the Word of God; this is the collection of lies and contradictions called the Holy Bible! this is the rubbish called Revealed Religion!"
-Thomas Paine

"Thirteen governments [of the original states] thus founded on the natural authority of the people alone, without a pretence of miracle or mystery, and which are destined to spread over the northern part of that whole quarter of the globe, are a great point gained in favor of the rights of mankind."
-John Adams

"Let the human mind loose. It must be loose. It will be loose. Superstition and dogmatism cannot confine it."
-John Adams

"I almost shudder at the thought of alluding to the most fatal example of the abuses of grief which the history of mankind has preserved -- the Cross. Consider what calamities that engine of grief has produced!"
-John Adams

"God is an essence that we know nothing of. Until this awful blasphemy is got rid of, there never will be any liberal science in the world."
-John Adams

"The founders of our nation were nearly all Infidels, and that of the presidents who had thus far been elected [Washington; Adams; Jefferson; Madison; Monroe; Adams; Jackson] not a one had professed a belief in Christianity....
"Among all our presidents from Washington downward, not one was a professor of religion, at least not of more than Unitarianism."
--- The Reverend Doctor Bird Wilson, an Episcopal minister in Albany, New York, in a sermon preached in October, 1831.

 

[IcyPeaceMaker]

The defining line between Judaism & Christianity is the difference between the new and old testaments. Christians live by the New Testament and the Jews believe there is no such thing as the New Testament.

People are free to believe that which they wish, but Jews despise Christianity. The real question is why, and please don't give us the crap that it's because Jews killed Jesus. Nobody is branding anyone with any crime they themselves did not commit.

 

[yongrel]

The defining line between Judaism & Christianity is the difference between the new and old testaments. Christians live by the New Testament and the Jews believe there is no such thing as the New Testament.

People are free to believe that which they wish, but Jews despise Christianity. The real question is why, and please don't give us the crap that it's because Jews killed Jesus. Nobody is branding anyone with any crime they themselves did not commit.

I love the smell of collectivism in the morning.

 

[IcyPeaceMaker]

I believe the word supplanted was actually Napalm.

 

[ARealConservative]

ROFL!!! Thirty five of the Founding Fathers who worked on the Constitution were members of the orthodox Christian Churches and others were evangelical Christians. Heheh are you implying they were all atheists? Where is your evidence of this? LOL

What is the purpose of these types of posts? They do nothing but divide us.

The vast majority of our leaders since the ratification of the constitution have also been Christian.

So if we are to attribute the original views of government towards Judeo-Christian Principles, then why would we not also attribute this version of the government towards the same?

and in the end, wasn't ratification a product of individual decisions?

So why try to "collectivize" our foundation at all?

 

[ToryNotion]

Objectivists vs. Libertarians in Political/Religious Ideology Deathmatch 2008!

I saw this in 'Fugitive Essays' by Frank Chodorov pg 238 ('Education and Freedom')

It should be recalled that only the agnostic leanings of several constitutional fathers prevented the official designation of the new nation as a 'Christian Country' - which, by a strange twist of bigotry, meant an anti-Catholic country; there were few Jews and fewer Muhammadans in the colonies.

-----
I take this to mean that the issue of Christianity was quite well settled on in the whole and to most it was really more a question of which side of the reformation you favored.

 

[micahnelson]

WHhhhhhhhhhhho Cares?

Our dollar is collapsing, a government is oozing with corruption, and you want to associate that with a Christian foundation?

 

[Theocrat]

Cite Your Sources, Please

... Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's; and unto God the things that are God's.
-- Jesus, Matthew 22:21


"Christianity neither is, nor ever was, a part of the common law."
-Thomas Jefferson

"History, I believe, furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people maintaining a free civil government. This marks the lowest grade of ignorance of which their civil as well as religious leaders will always avail themselves for their own purposes."
-Thomas Jefferson

"In every country and in every age, the priest has been hostile to liberty."
-Thomas Jefferson

"I may grow rich by an art I am compelled to follow; I may recover health by medicines I am compelled to take against my own judgment; but I cannot be saved by a worship I disbelieve and abhor."
-Thomas Jefferson

"If by religion we are to understand sectarian dogmas, in which no two of them agree, then your exclamation on that hypothesis is just, "that this would be the best of worlds if there were no religion in it.""
-Thomas Jefferson

"The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the Supreme Being as his father, in the womb of a virgin, will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter."
-Thomas Jefferson

"Every new & successful example of a perfect separation between ecclesiastical and civil matters is of importance."
-James Madison

"And I have no doubt that every new example will succeed, as every past one has done, in shewing that religion & Govt will both exist in greater purity, the less they are mixed together."
-James Madison

"Religious bondage shackles and debilitates the mind and unfits it for every noble enterprize, every expanded prospect."
-James Madison

"Persecution is not an original feature in any religion; but it is always the strongly marked feature of all religions established by law. Take away the law-establishment, and every religion re-assumes its original benignity."
-Thomas Paine

"It is from the Bible that man has learned cruelty, rapine and murder; for the belief of a cruel God makes a cruel man."
-Thomas Paine

"Of all the tyrannies that afflict mankind, tyranny in religion is the worst. Every other species of tyranny is limited to the world we live in, but this attempts a stride beyond the grave and seeks to pursue us into eternity."
-Thomas Paine

"The Christian system of religion is an outrage on common sense."
-Thomas Paine

"Yet this is trash that the Church imposes upon the world as the Word of God; this is the collection of lies and contradictions called the Holy Bible! this is the rubbish called Revealed Religion!"
-Thomas Paine

"Thirteen governments [of the original states] thus founded on the natural authority of the people alone, without a pretence of miracle or mystery, and which are destined to spread over the northern part of that whole quarter of the globe, are a great point gained in favor of the rights of mankind."
-John Adams

"Let the human mind loose. It must be loose. It will be loose. Superstition and dogmatism cannot confine it."
-John Adams

"I almost shudder at the thought of alluding to the most fatal example of the abuses of grief which the history of mankind has preserved -- the Cross. Consider what calamities that engine of grief has produced!"
-John Adams

"God is an essence that we know nothing of. Until this awful blasphemy is got rid of, there never will be any liberal science in the world."
-John Adams

"The founders of our nation were nearly all Infidels, and that of the presidents who had thus far been elected [Washington; Adams; Jefferson; Madison; Monroe; Adams; Jackson] not a one had professed a belief in Christianity....
"Among all our presidents from Washington downward, not one was a professor of religion, at least not of more than Unitarianism."
--- The Reverend Doctor Bird Wilson, an Episcopal minister in Albany, New York, in a sermon preached in October, 1831.

What are your sources for these quotes, yongrel?

 

[Theocrat]

Our Godly Heritage is Very Relevant to Current Political Ills

WHhhhhhhhhhhho Cares?

Our dollar is collapsing, a government is oozing with corruption, and you want to associate that with a Christian foundation?

The reason why our dollar is collapsing and our government is riddled with corruption (among a host of other things immoral and unconstitutional) is precisely because we have forgotten or forsaken our nation's Christian heritage. Our Founding Fathers gave us strict admonitions against those who would seek to tear down the moral and religious nature of our constitutional republic and what the consequences would be as a result. Hear it from their own words:

"[W]e have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion. . . . Our constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." -- John Adams (John Adams, The Works of John Adams, Second President of the United States, Charles Francis Adams, editor [Boston: Little, Brown, and Co. 1854], Vol. IX, p. 229, October 11, 1798.)

"There are three points of doctrine the belief of which forms the foundation of all morality. The first is the existence of God; the second is the immortality of the human soul; and the third is a future state of rewards and punishments. Suppose it possible for a man to disbelieve either of these three articles of faith and that man will have no conscience, he will have no other law than that of the tiger or the shark. The laws of man may bind him in chains or may put him to death, but they never can make him wise, virtuous, or happy." -- John Quincy Adams (John Quincy Adams, Letters of John Quincy Adams to His Son on the Bible and Its Teachings [Auburn: James M. Alden, 1850], pp. 22-23.)

"Without morals a republic cannot subsist any length of time; they therefore who are decrying the Christian religion, whose morality is so sublime & pure, [and] which denounces against the wicked eternal misery, and [which] insured to the good eternal happiness, are undermining the solid foundation of morals, the best security for the duration of free governments." -- Charles Carroll (Bernard C. Steiner, The Life and Correspondence of James McHenry [Cleveland: The Burrows Brothers, 1907], p. 475. In a letter from Charles Carroll to James McHenry of November 4, 1800.)

"I have lived, Sir, a long time, and the longer I live, the more convincing proofs I see of this truth, that God governs in the affairs of men. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without His notice, is it probable that an empire can rise without his aid? We have been assured, Sir, in the Sacred Writings, that "except the Lord build the House, they labor in vain that build it." I firmly believe this; and I also believe that without His concurring aid we shall succeed in this political building no better, than the Builders of Babel: We shall be divided by our partial local interests; our projects will be confounded, and we ourselves shall become a reproach and bye word down to future ages. And what is worse, mankind may hereafter from this unfortunate instance, despair of establishing governments by human wisdom and leave it to chance, war and conquest." -- Benjamin Franklin (James Madison, The Records of the Federal Convention of 1787, Max Farrand, editor [New Haven: Yale University Press, 1911], Vol. I, pp. 450-452, June 28, 1787.)

And the list goes on and on. That's why we need to be concerned about our nation's Godly heritage because without it, our country will fall, at least according to our Founders. Even Congressman Paul understands how important the Christian religion was to the early Framers of our republic!

 

[Tdcci]

The reason why our dollar is collapsing and our government is riddled with corruption (among a host of other things immoral and unconstitutional) is precisely because we have forgotten or forsaken our nation's Christian heritage. Our Founding Fathers gave us strict admonitions against those who would seek to tear down the moral and religious nature of our constitutional republic and what the consequences would be as a result. Hear it from their own words

"[W]e have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion. . . ."

Morality does not depend on or come from religion
Our dollar is collapsing because of inflation not lack of religion
If we had LESS dogma and blind trust in the Federal Reserve System perhaps the dollar would be in better shape.

 

[yongrel]

What are your sources for these quotes, yongrel?

http://www.positiveatheism.org/

or I just made them up. You choose.

 

[ToryNotion]

So the some of the founding fathers had criticisms of the practice of Christianity. Find me a Christian who doesn't see the gulf between the potential of Christianity and the practice in the hear and now. Back to the quotes and the founders, I've yet to see one other than Tom Paine that denies the tenets of Christianity or disparaged Jesus Christ. And the last quotation could be taken to mean that the listed presidents weren't Christian enough in the judgment of the author, not that they weren't Christian at all.

 

[ARealConservative]

The reason why our dollar is collapsing and our government is riddled with corruption (among a host of other things immoral and unconstitutional) is precisely because we have forgotten or forsaken our nation's Christian heritage.

This is an argument from emotion and void of logic or reasoning.

You have no basis to claim that our founders actions were more Christian in nature then todays actions.

When you strip your argument down to its base element, it's just a holier then though attitude now rendered naked for all to see.

 

[yongrel]

So the some of the founding fathers had criticisms of the practice of Christianity. Find me a Christian who doesn't see the gulf between the potential of Christianity and the practice in the hear and now. Back to the quotes and the founders, I've yet to see one other than Tom Paine that denies the tenets of Christianity or disparaged Jesus Christ. And the last quotation could be taken to mean that the listed presidents weren't Christian enough in the judgment of the author, not that they weren't Christian at all.

The facts of the matter as I see them are as follows:

1) The founders of this country were often extremely critical of the institution of religion and the close-minded dogma that goes hand-in-hand.

2) The founders placed an extremely high level of importance of the seperation of church and state. Despite many of their individual beliefs that ran contrary to Chrisitianity, they were dedicated to ensuring that the government was in no way involved with religion.

3) The principles of Christianity that are considered acceptable by today's standards are not unique to Christianity. The pleasant and useful pieces of advice like "Don't kill folks, and don't screw your neighbor's wife" are not exclusive to Christianity, or even the Abrahamic religions.

4) The tidbits of Christianity that advocate cannabalism, vampirism, killing innocent children, raping innocent women, etc, etc are conveniently ignored when talking about "Christian principles." Was this country founded on the principle that it is acceptable to eat babies, as the Bible suggests?


So here's what crosses my mind: I believe that the founders, while personally nonreligious or anti-religious, were passionate advocates of the seperation of church and state and religious freedom. They cared so much about the independence of each from the other that they instituted multiple safegaurds against either influencing and infiltrating the other. I believe that it is the natural progression of this that the founders would have been extremely careful to remove religious artifacts from the laws and framework of our government, except when it was useful to aid the understanding or was part of the vernacular appropriate to the piece.

Our country was founded not on Christian principles, but on the values of society as a whole. Respect for life, liberty, and property are cultural universals that manifest themselves in some way, shape, or form in every society.

We are a human nation, not a Christian nation.

 

[Deborah K]

I am amazed at the ignorance and intolerance shown in this thread by those who would complain of the ignorance and intolorance of religious folk. Most of the vitriol seems to miss the point of the OP entirely. ITSM the denial of the bible's influence on western society is silly. It doesn't matter if the underlying tenents of the book were based on reptilian texts from atlantis, the evidence put forth clearly shows that the bible was the most qouted source and that the vast majority of founders were affiliated with JC religions.

Interesting and well researched post, Deborah. Thanks

Thank you. I am amazed as well at the hypocrisy of those who bitterly complain about how hostile and hateful Christians are when defending their faith. On the other hand, it is painful to hear it coming from Christians.

I've come to the conclusion that all the hostility really has nothing to do with "evil" atheists and "ignorant" Christians. It has everything to do with the maturity level of some individuals. If you take 'collectivism' out of the equation, all you're left with is individuals who either can or cannot have an intellectual debate with a certain level of maturity. Unfortunately, a lot of people have what I lovingly call a 'sandbox' mentality.

 

[Dr.3D]

Unfortunately, a lot of people have what I lovingly call a 'sandbox' mentality.

'Mommy, Johnny threw sand in my hair!"
"She started it first!"
"No he did!"

"Whaaaaa!"

The typical sandbox politics.

 

[Deborah K]

What is the purpose of these types of posts? They do nothing but divide us.

The vast majority of our leaders since the ratification of the constitution have also been Christian.

So if we are to attribute the original views of government towards Judeo-Christian Principles, then why would we not also attribute this version of the government towards the same?

and in the end, wasn't ratification a product of individual decisions?

So why try to "collectivize" our foundation at all?

If you will recall, I was responding to a post that claimed ALL of the founders were atheists, etc., etc.

How does providing a fact divide us? Try as you might, you will never completely remove collectivism, however it is good to always be conscious of it and avoid "grouping" people in adverse ways, if at all possible. On this, I agree with you.

 

[ToryNotion]

Those arguing the no position seem to forget that there were other folks peopling the colonies besides the skeptical, disreputable swine we call the Founding Fathers. Your incisive arguments and your pages of internet quotes have convinced me that they were all the lot of them capital A atheists. Now even if this nonsense were true, you forget the millions of poor simple Christian believers that populated the early nation. Or are you going to try to convince us that they were also atheists. or deists or free masons or perhaps adherents of some other religion than Christianity in one of its many flavors? It seems to me that I remember a fable about many of them crossing the ocean in search of freedom to practice religion not freedom from religion (ie. from religion itself).

 

[Deborah K]

The only reason people today insist on pointing out that this nation was founded on Christian principles is because they want us to be ruled by their particular Christian laws. Otherwise they would just go about their Christian lives and not try to impose it on the rest of the country.

I have noticed in threads that get rather long, people don't have the time to read through every post and it becomes necessary to repeat one's self, several times, it seems. I do NOT want us to be ruled by my particular Christian laws - as you put it. Please read my OP to see what my objective is.

FYI: Judeo-Christian principles are based on a basic set of ethics that evolved way before the bible was ever written. As soon as humans began living in groups larger than a single family they figured out pretty quick that you don't murder, steal, or screw your neighbors wife. It tends to create conflict.

Organized religion just took those ethics and codified them. Plus, they added some extras to help control the masses.

I can agree with this.

 

[Deborah K]

Those arguing the no position seem to forget that there were other folks peopling the colonies besides the skeptical, disreputable swine we call the Founding Fathers. Your incisive arguments and your pages of internet quotes have convinced me that they were all the lot of them capital A atheists. Now even if this nonsense were true, you forget the millions of poor simple Christian believers that populated the early nation. Or are you going to try to convince us that they were also atheists. or deists or free masons or perhaps adherents of some other religion than Christianity in one of its many flavors? It seems to me that I remember a fable about many of them crossing the ocean in search of freedom to practice religion not freedom from religion (ie. from religion itself).

Bingo.