Was America founded on Judeo-Christian Principles? Of Course it was!

That is only partially true. The word Providence is used repeatedly in the DOI. The fact that the words are not in the documents does not disqualify the evidence that our founders used Christian principles as a basis for the foundation of our republic.



Uh….hello to you? Christianity was born out of the Jewish religion. Christ was a practicing Jew, a Rabbi, his followers were Jews. The Old Testament comes directly from the Torah.



LOL! http://www.adherents.com/gov/Founding_Fathers_Religion.html The evidence is in this link as to what religion our founders were. Perhaps your problem is with my sources. If you want your argument to have any standing with anyone reading it, then you will need to discredit my sources as you will now discover I have done with yours as well as your baseless argument.



Paine’s, Age of Reason, infuriated many of the Founding Fathers. John Adams wrote, “The Christian religion is, above all the religions that ever prevailed or existed in ancient or modern times, the religion of wisdom, virtue, equity and humanity, let the Blackguard [scoundrel, rogue] Paine say what he will.”

Samuel Adams wrote Paine a stiff rebuke, telling him, “[W]hen I heard you had turned your mind to a defense of infidelity, I felt myself much astonished and more grieved that you had attempted a measure so injurious to the feelings and so repugnant to the true interest of so great a part of the citizens of the United States.”

Benjamin Rush, signer of the Declaration, wrote to his friend and signer of the Constitution John Dickinson that Paine's Age of Reason was “absurd and impious”;

Charles Carroll, a signer of the Declaration, described Paine's work as “blasphemous writings against the Christian religion”;

John Witherspoon said that Paine was “ignorant of human nature as well as an enemy to the Christian faith”;

and Elias Boudinot, President of Congress, even published the Age of Revelation—a full-length rebuttal to Paine's work.

Patrick Henry, too, wrote a refutation of Paine's work which he described as “the puny efforts of Paine.”

When William Paterson, signer of the Constitution and a Justice on the U. S. Supreme Court, learned that some Americans seemed to agree with Paine's work, he thundered, “Infatuated Americans, why renounce your country, your religion, and your God?”

Zephaniah Swift, author of America's first law book, noted, “He has the impudence and effrontery [shameless boldness] to address to the citizens of the United States of America a paltry performance which is intended to shake their faith in the religion of their fathers.”

John Jay, an author of the Federalist Papers and the original Chief-Justice of the U. S. Supreme Court, was comforted by the fact that Christianity would prevail despite Paine's attack,” I have long been of the opinion that the evidence of the truth of Christianity requires only to be carefully examined to produce conviction in candid minds.”


In fact, Paine's views caused such vehement public opposition that he spent his last years in New York as “an outcast” in “social ostracism” and was buried in a farm field because no American cemetery would accept his remains.




This quote is not an actual quote. It has been disputed by Monticello.org : http://wiki.monticello.org/mediawik..._most_perverted_system_that_ever_shone_on_man



The first part of this quote is also disputed. It has falsely been attached to the second part (underlined) that has been taken out of context. Here is the context: http://etext.lib.virginia.edu/etcbi...act=text&offset=8287826&textreg=1&query=burnt

You ought to be more careful about from where you pull your information. It doesn't help your argument at all.

And here is what Ron Paul thinks of people who are trying to revise our nation's history: http://www.lewrockwell.com/paul/paul148.html
1) I never knew that the word, "Providence" was strictly meant for the Christian religion...
2) Christ was not a Rabbi. I've heard all the arguments from the Christian right, and this is pathetic. Even if he existed, he was Christian. Not Jewish in any way after his childhood. And excuse my language, but no crap? I don't need things that I learned in my Hebrew School and Jewish Studies to be lectured to me. Even then, it does not mean that Christians are Jews. There were no Jews in the US in the 1700's. Get your facts straight, please. Christians are not Jews, and if you wish to argue this, I gladly will, like I have with hundreds of other fanatics in the past. And I haven't lost a single argument to date.
3) Oh, please. Your source is a website that looks like it was made in a matter of minutes which has no credibility whatsoever. EVEN IF a majority of our founders were Christians, that doesn't mean our country was founded on Christian principles. It never was, and NEVER will be. There's no way in hell some bloody right winged Christian fanatics are going to try to re-write history in this country. And I love how you completely ignored the statement about that treaty ;)
4) ...And that's why many of our founders agreed and praised him? Do you have any proof to back your statements?
5) Note how it's disputed. Not necessarily false. Just disputed.
6) Again, not even going to visit the second link. Why? Key word; disputed. What you were looking for and didn't find was a definite, "false statement."
7) Right back at ya'.
8) Note how he said traditions, and not roots, foundation, etcetera. As our nation grew, so did the amount of Christians. This nation was never founded on Christian traditions. Many people celebrate Christmas. Does that mean that you have to subjugate the entire country to your damn religions holiday, and proclaim that our nation is specifically for your own religion? Please.
 
I suppose that I just don't care where the Founders got their influence. Truth is, they got their influence from a great deal of sources... religious and secular alike.

You see, they were *intelligent* people. So they looked to many sources for the answers, since in nearly any argument, one side is never completely right.

And it is important to remember that the Judeo-Christian values are FAR older than the Judeo-Christian religions. Making murder illegal---as it is in this country---is never a reason to claim a Judeo-Christian influence. Just a JC coincidence.

Citing sources of quotes and such is all well and good, but it's also a logical fallacy to extend the argument beyond one of History. To speak to Political Theory or Morality, one must go beyond quotations and into the actual practice of philosophy. Relying on quotes and attributions to famous people is an actual logical fallacy, and little more than hearsay (When divorced from a Historical study--in which such efforts of attribution DO have merit!).

The important thing in my mind is that the Country remain rooted in its freedom and Constitutional government, NOT in any specific religion through law.

THAT WOULD BE A THEOCRACY. And that is certainly not what the Founders had in mind. I think we can all agree with that.

If someone can't, then come and try to impose your ideals on me. I'll impose right back, and we'll let might be right... :mad:
 
I'm not sure, however, I just got done reading Common Sense by Thomas Paine, and I can definitely tell you that even if he wasn't into "religion," the man definitely believed in the God of the Bible.

I went into reading this GREAT book might I add, under the pretenses that Thomas Paine did not believe in Jesus Christ but did believe that there was a higher being. After reading it, I can definitely say that he did believe in Jesus Christ.
 
I'm not sure, however, I just got done reading Common Sense by Thomas Paine, and I can definitely tell you that even if he wasn't into "religion," the man definitely believed in the God of the Bible.

I went into reading this GREAT book might I add, under the pretenses that Thomas Paine did not believe in Jesus Christ but did believe that there was a higher being. After reading it, I can definitely say that he did believe in Jesus Christ.

Well of course he would come off as an all mighty believer in Christ. During his time, if you weren't Christian or were Atheist, the Christian Church would have your head, literally speaking. All though they might bury it so that they wouldn't necessarily own it for more than a few hours, but you get the point ;)
 
I believe some of our friends may have been offended by my post above, so let me explain. I do not for one second believe all Jews are anti-American, but many despise our heritage and anything Christian.

The ones I refer to embody that and the following characteristics, as well.

1) Knowing and understanding who those puppeteers are and refusing to renounce or expose them, preferring to be Jews first and Americans second, or benefiting from the deeds of those I refer to.

2) Allowing those descendents of Khazars to remain in their midst and shielding them from exposure and harm. (see #1) Working with or for them to the detriment of America, regardless of the degree of harm.

3) Refusing to assimilate and to become Americans first, determined to share our fate and to rejoice in our triumphs and commiserate in our failures, placing this country ahead of self. i.e. any loyalty to any other country, including Israel.

4) Anyone who assaults American traditions, including Christianity is NOT a true American. Jews have American principals and traditions under attack, just as they have done in every country they have occupied and destroyed for more than 5,000 years. Many Jews are not involved in this assault but shield and defend those who are involved. You are with America or you are with Israel, when it comes down to it, when support for Israel becomes damaging to America, failure to defend America makes you my enemy.

Anyone who refuses to understand that Israel and America's involvement and support for her has tended to destroy American values, traditions and standing in the world community, is intentionally blind, deceiving themselves or has been so totally indoctrinated by the Jewish-devised institution of political correctness, that they too should leave our shores.

This is my only country, I have served her and would gladly give my life to preserve her and keep her safe against all enemies foreign and particularly domestic. Anyone born here who gives their allegiance to any other country is no countryman of mine, and I would sooner they occupied the land with which they identify.

To defend the evil ones among us, who are damaging this country, or to identify with them, is treason. From my perspective, an offense deserving the death penalty.

I have no problem with someone being ultra rich, but when they use their power, as in the MSM, global banking, etc., to destroy ANY aspect of America-first culture, to the detriment of Americans, they have crossed the line in the sand, and there can be no redemption for them. They should be deported or executed.

America's relationship with Israel has damaged America and should be severed. Given the opportunity, I would put a sheet of black glass over Israel and seek out those responsible, here in America or abroad, and summarily execute them.

While I have no doubt that many Jews here in America are truly Americans first and share my love for her, many do not. To those, I would ask, if someone within your family had committed a heinous crime, would you help justice to be served or would you become and accessory to the crime? I understand how difficult a question like that is, but that is the choice many Jews are faced with, they know and understand America's plight, yet refuse to stand with her against her cloaked enemy. Being a chameleon doesn't hide your heart or end the conflict within you, it defines you, it is who you are.

Benjamin Freedman (a Jew) said that Jews are vampires, in that they can't live in Israel, inhabited only by other vampires, they must live among those they feed off of. Those are the ones to whom I refer.

You know a post is bad when vampires are the least absurd subject of it.
 
This is why the Jews are hated. From a retired Brigadier General. Read it here: http://www.mediamonitors.net/jamesjdavid1.html

Let me be direct and come straight to the point. The cause of this terrorism is our involvement in and support of the criminal behavior of the Israeli government. You can be certain that you will never hear this accusation from the controlled news media, but nevertheless, let the truth be known. It may not be the "political correct" response, but political correctness is not one of my concerns.

You see, the Palestinians and many of their Arab allies have been the target of a half-century of unrelenting Israeli terrorism. Israel took over Palestine and drove out over 800,000 people from their homes through horrendous acts of terrorism. Among those acts was the sadistic massacre of over 250 Palestinian old men, women and children at Deir Yassin. After the bloodletting, the Jews then purposely publicized the event so as to make the people flee in panic from their homes and businesses from which they still haven't been allowed to return.

The terror also was applied to the British, such as the horrendous bombing of the King David Hotel in Jerusalem.

Not only did they establish their Israeli state over Palestinian land, the Jews took the Palestinians' personal property: their land, farms, homes and businesses. After driving out the Palestinian refugees and refusing their return, they then passed an "abandonment land" law that gave it to the Jews.

In 1980s Israel killed an estimated 40,000 civilians as it invaded the nation of Lebanon and relentlessly bombed and attacked cities and villages, including the ancient and beautiful city of Beirut. The current Prime Minister of Israel, Ariel Sharon, oversaw the massacre of thousands of refugees in the Sabra and Shatila camps in Lebanon.

And what about Iraq? Former Secretary of State Madeleine Albright called the death of 500,000 Iraqi children from starvation due to UN sanctions, "acceptable and worth it" during a CBS interview on "60 Minutes" a few years ago. In other words, it's worth having 500,000 Iraqi children die in misery in order to safeguard Israel's position.

It has not stopped since. Israel has more prisoners per capita than any other nation of the world, more than Stalinist Russia, or Red China during their worst periods. It routinely tortures its Palestinian prisoners, and is in fact the only nation in the modern world that legally sanctions torture.

Israel has targeted and assassinated thousands of Palestinian leaders, and this includes scholars, clerics, businessmen, philosophers and poets, anyone who inspires the Palestinian people to restoration of their homeland. These assassinations have occurred all over the world, even in the United States.

In the process, they have killed many thousands of women and children. Even today, while America reads of the World Trade Center Tragedy, Israeli troops have killed 20 Palestinians in less than 72 hours, including two young Palestinian girls, ages 9 and 11 and one Palestinian boy, age 14. Ariel Sharon is taking advantage of America's tragedy to hide any news coverage of his continued carnage and destruction to the Palestinian people.

In addition to the many human rights violations committed against the Palestinian people, Amnesty International, in 1999, reported that "Since 1987 the Israeli authorities have demolished at least 2,650 Palestinian homes in the West Bank, including East Jerusalem.... As a result 16,700 Palestinians (including 7,300 children) have lost their homes."

In addition, the Israelis have uprooted over 100,000 olive trees which were, in many cases, the only sources of income for these Palestinian farmers. These homes and olive trees were demolished with American made bulldozers while the leaders in Washington looked the other way, giving the green light to these Israeli barbaric acts.

And it has not just been the Palestinians who have suffered Israeli terror. In April 1996 the Israeli military targeted a Lebanese Refugee Camp in Qana, Lebanon that killed 103 innocent men, women, and especially children, in which a U.N. investigation found Israel to be at fault. When a vote was taken in the United Nations to condemn Israel for the killings, the United States was the only country to vote against the condemnation. What does that tell the rest of the world?

Every Palestinian and Arab is aware that Israel's half century of terror could never have occurred without the active financial, military, and diplomatic support of the United States. They know that the Jewish Lobby has dominant control of American Mideast Policy.

They know that almost every bomb that kills their people comes from America. Every bullet, every tank, every fighter plane, is manufactured or paid for by American dollars. It is America's billions of dollars of support that have enabled the Jewish state to terrorize the Arab people for half a century.

That is why the Arabs hate us; and that is why they are trying to strike back at us. That is why we will continue to be vulnerable to men who willingly give up their lives to avenge their people. Striking back at the terrorists is important, but getting to the source of terrorism is even more important.

It's time to get tough with Israel.

James J. David is a retired Brigadier General, and a graduate of the U.S. Army's Command and General Staff College, and the National Security Course, National Defense University, Washington DC. He served nearly 3 years of Army active duty in and around the Middle East from 1967-1969.
 
Great Work, Deborah K

That is only partially true. The word Providence is used repeatedly in the DOI. The fact that the words are not in the documents does not disqualify the evidence that our founders used Christian principles as a basis for the foundation of our republic.



Uh….hello to you? Christianity was born out of the Jewish religion. Christ was a practicing Jew, a Rabbi, his followers were Jews. The Old Testament comes directly from the Torah.



LOL! http://www.adherents.com/gov/Founding_Fathers_Religion.html The evidence is in this link as to what religion our founders were. Perhaps your problem is with my sources. If you want your argument to have any standing with anyone reading it, then you will need to discredit my sources as you will now discover I have done with yours as well as your baseless argument.



Paine’s, Age of Reason, infuriated many of the Founding Fathers. John Adams wrote, “The Christian religion is, above all the religions that ever prevailed or existed in ancient or modern times, the religion of wisdom, virtue, equity and humanity, let the Blackguard [scoundrel, rogue] Paine say what he will.”

Samuel Adams wrote Paine a stiff rebuke, telling him, “[W]hen I heard you had turned your mind to a defense of infidelity, I felt myself much astonished and more grieved that you had attempted a measure so injurious to the feelings and so repugnant to the true interest of so great a part of the citizens of the United States.”

Benjamin Rush, signer of the Declaration, wrote to his friend and signer of the Constitution John Dickinson that Paine's Age of Reason was “absurd and impious”;

Charles Carroll, a signer of the Declaration, described Paine's work as “blasphemous writings against the Christian religion”;

John Witherspoon said that Paine was “ignorant of human nature as well as an enemy to the Christian faith”;

and Elias Boudinot, President of Congress, even published the Age of Revelation—a full-length rebuttal to Paine's work.

Patrick Henry, too, wrote a refutation of Paine's work which he described as “the puny efforts of Paine.”

When William Paterson, signer of the Constitution and a Justice on the U. S. Supreme Court, learned that some Americans seemed to agree with Paine's work, he thundered, “Infatuated Americans, why renounce your country, your religion, and your God?”

Zephaniah Swift, author of America's first law book, noted, “He has the impudence and effrontery [shameless boldness] to address to the citizens of the United States of America a paltry performance which is intended to shake their faith in the religion of their fathers.”

John Jay, an author of the Federalist Papers and the original Chief-Justice of the U. S. Supreme Court, was comforted by the fact that Christianity would prevail despite Paine's attack,” I have long been of the opinion that the evidence of the truth of Christianity requires only to be carefully examined to produce conviction in candid minds.”


In fact, Paine's views caused such vehement public opposition that he spent his last years in New York as “an outcast” in “social ostracism” and was buried in a farm field because no American cemetery would accept his remains.




This quote is not an actual quote. It has been disputed by Monticello.org : http://wiki.monticello.org/mediawik..._most_perverted_system_that_ever_shone_on_man



The first part of this quote is also disputed. It has falsely been attached to the second part (underlined) that has been taken out of context. Here is the context: http://etext.lib.virginia.edu/etcbi...act=text&offset=8287826&textreg=1&query=burnt

You ought to be more careful about from where you pull your information. It doesn't help your argument at all.

And here is what Ron Paul thinks of people who are trying to revise our nation's history: http://www.lewrockwell.com/paul/paul148.html

Thanks for setting the record straight about this issue, so far. I've been saying this for such a long time, and all I ever get from the opposition is ignorant speculations and personal attacks. It will be interesting to see what evidence the revisionists will bring to counter you.
 
In fact, Paine's views caused such vehement public opposition that he spent his last years in New York as “an outcast” in “social ostracism” and was buried in a farm field because no American cemetery would accept his remains.

I challenge this, show me where you got this information. Also, this is an argumentum ad populum.
 
I challenge this, show me where you got this information. Also, this is an argumentum ad populum.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Paine

Thomas Paine had passed the legendary limit of life. One by one most of his old friends and acquaintances had deserted him. Maligned on every side, execrated, shunned and abhorred – his virtues denounced as vices – his services forgotten – his character blackened, he preserved the poise and balance of his soul. He was a victim of the people, but his convictions remained unshaken. He was still a soldier in the army of freedom, and still tried to enlighten and civilize those who were impatiently waiting for his death, Even those who loved their enemies hated him, their friend – the friend of the whole world – with all their hearts. On the 8th of June, 1809, death came – Death, almost his only friend. At his funeral no pomp, no pageantry, no civic procession, no military display. In a carriage, a woman and her son who had lived on the bounty of the dead – on horseback, a Quaker, the humanity of whose heart dominated the creed of his head – and, following on foot, two negroes filled with gratitude – constituted the funeral cortege of Thomas Paine.[15]
 
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okay, so maybe his views were less popular when the crazy evangelical Christians started to dominate the population, but that quote said nothing about Deborah's claiming that Thomas paine "was buried in a farm field because no American cemetery would accept his remains."
 
Paine died at 59 Grove Street in Greenwich Village, New York City, on the morning of June 8, 1809. He was 72. His burial site is located in New Rochelle, New York where he had lived after returning to America in 1802. His remains were later disinterred by an admirer looking to return them to England however; his final resting place today is unknown.
 
farm field - not verified by maybe, more importantly, I suspect the "because no American cemetery would accept his remains" is opinion.
 
It doesn't matter if all of the founding fathers were Christians, Muslims, or Voodoo Priests. They still founded a government based on individual freedom that would not promote nor inhibit religious practices.

The only reason people today insist on pointing out that this nation was founded on Christian principles is because they want us to be ruled by their particular Christian laws. Otherwise they would just go about their Christian lives and not try to impose it on the rest of the country.

FYI: Judeo-Christian principles are based on a basic set of ethics that evolved way before the bible was ever written. As soon as humans began living in groups larger than a single family they figured out pretty quick that you don't murder, steal, or screw your neighbors wife. It tends to create conflict.

Organized religion just took those ethics and codified them. Plus, they added some extras to help control the masses.
 
Liberty and Liberal (properly understood) ideas have only flourished in this world where Christianity has flourished because Christian doctrine affirms the worth of each and every human being. Where Christianity has not taken a foothold collectivism reigns (and its making a comeback in Christendom as well, unfortunately).

So the Salem witch trials and all the puritan intolerance were exercises in liberty and liberalism?
How about that Spanish Inquisition? Maybe throw in some pogroms for good measure.

And xtianity is all about collectivism.

Give up all your possessions and follow me.
 
okay, so maybe his views were less popular when the crazy evangelical Christians started to dominate the population, but that quote said nothing about Deborah's claiming that Thomas paine "was buried in a farm field because no American cemetery would accept his remains."
+1 to that.

It doesn't matter if all of the founding fathers were Christians, Muslims, or Voodoo Priests. They still founded a government based on individual freedom that would not promote nor inhibit religious practices.

The only reason people today insist on pointing out that this nation was founded on Christian principles is because they want us to be ruled by their particular Christian laws. Otherwise they would just go about their Christian lives and not try to impose it on the rest of the country.

FYI: Judeo-Christian principles are based on a basic set of ethics that evolved way before the bible was ever written. As soon as humans began living in groups larger than a single family they figured out pretty quick that you don't murder, steal, or screw your neighbors wife. It tends to create conflict.

Organized religion just took those ethics and codified them. Plus, they added some extras to help control the masses.
Thank you. Finally someone with some common sense in this movement.
 
Mis-guided... Oh please.

First of all, please note that in article six section three of the Constitution, it states the following: "No religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust under the United States." The words, "Christ, Christianity, Christian, Cross," or any other "Christian word" or even "Jewish" word are not mentioned in the Declaration of Independence, the Constitution, the Bill of Rights, or any other document from the 1700 era.

There is a good reason for the ommission of any jewish words, there were no jews on our shores until well after the documents were written, jews didn't show up until the early 1800s, prolly around 1830 or so, nearly 50 years after the constitutional convention was over. But now we have a judeo-christian country? You attack christianity, just as Benjamin Freedman said you would, and demand that you are the one with any light to shine?!?! Israel awaits you sir.
 
Did America Ever Have a Godly Heritage?

Here is an excellent video by historian/author David Barton of WallBuilders which unequivocally proves that America was established on Christian principles and the Founders' intent was for this country to be a Christian nation. If you have any disputes or questions about this presentation, you can contact WallBuilders by phone at (817) 441-6044 or by e-mail at [email protected].

I pray this video will answer any questions concerning the religious intent of our Founding Fathers as well as clear up any confusion by setting the record straight about our country's religious heritage. May the naysayers and scoffers be forever silenced!

"America's Godly Heritage" (Part 1)

"America's Godly Heritage" (Part 2)
 
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