Was America founded on Judeo-Christian Principles? Of Course it was!

The founders were all Christians, but the country was founded on FREEDOM above and beyond everything else.

If it were founded solely on Christianity, we would most likely have a state religion.

However, the founders believed that people had the right to believe whatever they want to believe. Even Atheists. ;)
 
It's curious how offended you are. I've produced well-founded research to back up my argument and you have produced an angry opinion based on nothing. Do not attempt to put words in my mouth (so to speak) by referring to the Vatican, etc. - what bunk! If you even read what I wrote you would know that I practice no religion.

For the love of God, can anyone debate an issue and produce facts to back up their stance? These are the people I would like to debate with, not people who resort to slinging insults because they feel threatened by an opinion that doesn't fit in with their misguided version of history.

No you haven't.

I've destroyed your "proof" with historical documents showing that it was US law at the founding to recognize that the US is not in any way founded on Christianity, and that the common law is not founded on Christianity.

I also note that you haven't responded to those. Evasion speaks volumes.
 
No you haven't.

I've destroyed your "proof" with historical documents showing that it was US law at the founding to recognize that the US is not in any way founded on Christianity, and that the common law is not founded on Christianity.

I also note that you haven't responded to those. Evasion speaks volumes.

You have destroyed nothing. Your so-called "historical documents" are just quotes. Do you honestly think I can't come up with my own set of quotes to counter yours? Your denial of the research I've provided to back up my argument won't magically make it all disappear.

I have sufficiently refuted the ridiculous myth that our Founders were all atheists and deists. And I have sufficiently proven that we have a godly heritage.

Here is more evidence of that:

John Adams: "The general principles on which the fathers achieved independence were....the general principles of Christianity....I will avow that I then believed, and now believe, that general principles of Christianity are as eternal and immutable as the existance and attributes of God."

John Jay: "Providence has given to our people the choice of their rulers, and it is the duty - as well as the privilege and interest - of our Christian nation to select and prefer Christians for their rulers."

George Washington: "Of all the dispositions and habits which lead to political prosperity, religion and morality are indespensable supports. In vain would that man claim the tribute of patriotism, who should labor to subvert these great pillars."

Here are some Supreme Court ruling quotes:

"No purpose of action against religion can be imputed to any legislation, state or national, because this is a religious people...This is a Christian nation. "
Church of the Holy Trinity v. U.S. (1892)

"Whatever strikes at the root of Christianity tends manifestly to the dissolution of civil government"
People v. Ruggles (1811)

"By our form of government, the Christian religion is the established religion, and all sects and denominations of Christians are placed on the same equal footing."
Runkel v. Winemiller (1799)

I could go on and on and on..... but you get the point. I didn't make this up so don't kill the messenger. And for God's sake don't misinterpret my argument to mean that I want Christianity to take over the government.

For the fifty millionth time: I reject the implication that our founders were all atheists, agnostics, and deists and that Christian principles had nothing to do with our nation's founding.

We were clearly founded on Christian principles. For the life of me I can't understand why some people are sooooo threatened by that. I would think you would be thrilled to death that we have since become so secularized. Just stop trying to deny it, accept it for what it is and move on already.
 
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It's curious how offended you are. I've produced well-founded research to back up my argument and you have produced an angry opinion based on nothing. Do not attempt to put words in my mouth (so to speak) by referring to the Vatican, etc. - what bunk! If you even read what I wrote you would know that I practice no religion.
For the love of God, can anyone debate an issue and produce facts to back up their stance? These are the people I would like to debate with, not people who resort to slinging insults because they feel threatened by an opinion that doesn't fit in with their misguided version of history.

Mis-guided... Oh please.

First of all, please note that in article six section three of the Constitution, it states the following: "No religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust under the United States." The words, "Christ, Christianity, Christian, Cross," or any other "Christian word" or even "Jewish" word are not mentioned in the Declaration of Independence, the Constitution, the Bill of Rights, or any other document from the 1700 era.
Second. There were no Jews in the US when it was founded. Hello? Really, that one is common sense. So that completely eliminates the Jewish part of the debate.
Thirdly, if you read the text of the Treaty of Tripoli, it specifically states that America was not, will not, and is not founded on any specific religion, specifically Christianity in article 11. "The Government of the United States is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion."
Fourthly. Yeah, some of the founders were Christians. No one is disputing that. But

The Christian right wing is trying to re-write history, and you know it. George Washington was NOT a Christian, but a Deist. Our founders were Deists, Unitarians and Atheists. Get your facts straight. Thomas Paine wrote a book denouncing Christianity, calling it evil, false, etcetera. Thomas Jefferson and Adams were Deists. Madison was a Deist. Madison himself: "Religious bondage shackles and debilitates the mind and unfits it for every noble enterprise." "During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What have been its fruits? More or less in all places, pride and indolence in the Clergy, ignorance and servility in the laity, in both, superstition, bigotry and persecution."

Thomas Jefferson said:
I have examined all the known superstitions of the world, and I do not find in our particular superstition of Christianity one redeeming feature. They are all alike founded on fables and mythology. Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned. What has been the effect of this coercion? To make one half the world fools and the other half hypocrites; to support roguery and error all over the earth.

Thomas Jefferson said:
Christianity...(has become) the most perverted system that ever shone on man. ...Rogueries, absurdities and untruths were perpetrated upon the teachings of Jesus by a large band of dupes and importers led by Paul, the first great corrupter of the teaching of Jesus.

Thomas Paine said:
I would not dare to so dishonor my Creator God by attaching His name to that book (the Bible).

Among the most detestable villains in history, you could not find one worse than Moses. Here is an order, attributed to 'God' to butcher the boys, to massacre the mothers and to debauch and rape the daughters. I would not dare so dishonor my Creator's name by (attaching) it to this filthy book (the Bible).

It is the duty of every true Deist to vindicate the moral justice of God against the evils of the Bible.

Accustom a people to believe that priests and clergy can forgive sins...and you will have sins in abundance.

The Christian church has set up a religion of pomp and revenue in pretended imitation of a person (Jesus) who lived a life of poverty.

James Madison said:
What influence in fact have Christian ecclesiastical establishments had on civil society? In many instances they have been upholding the thrones of political tyranny. In no instance have they been seen as the guardians of the liberties of the people. Rulers who wished to subvert the public liberty have found in the clergy convenient auxiliaries. A just government, instituted to secure and perpetuate liberty, does not need the clergy.
 
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The words, "Christ, Christianity, Christian, Cross," or any other "Christian word" or even "Jewish" word are not mentioned in the Declaration of Independence, the Constitution, the Bill of Rights, or any other document from the 1700 era.

That is only partially true. The word Providence is used repeatedly in the DOI. The fact that the words are not in the documents does not disqualify the evidence that our founders used Christian principles as a basis for the foundation of our republic.

There were no Jews in the US when it was founded. Hello?

Uh….hello to you? Christianity was born out of the Jewish religion. Christ was a practicing Jew, a Rabbi, his followers were Jews. The Old Testament comes directly from the Torah.

The Christian right wing is trying to re-write history, and you know it. George Washington was NOT a Christian, but a Deist. Our founders were Deists, Unitarians and Atheists. Get your facts straight.

LOL! http://www.adherents.com/gov/Founding_Fathers_Religion.html The evidence is in this link as to what religion our founders were. Perhaps your problem is with my sources. If you want your argument to have any standing with anyone reading it, then you will need to discredit my sources as you will now discover I have done with yours as well as your baseless argument.

Thomas Paine wrote a book denouncing Christianity, calling it evil, false, etcetera.

Paine’s, Age of Reason, infuriated many of the Founding Fathers. John Adams wrote, “The Christian religion is, above all the religions that ever prevailed or existed in ancient or modern times, the religion of wisdom, virtue, equity and humanity, let the Blackguard [scoundrel, rogue] Paine say what he will.”

Samuel Adams wrote Paine a stiff rebuke, telling him, “[W]hen I heard you had turned your mind to a defense of infidelity, I felt myself much astonished and more grieved that you had attempted a measure so injurious to the feelings and so repugnant to the true interest of so great a part of the citizens of the United States.”

Benjamin Rush, signer of the Declaration, wrote to his friend and signer of the Constitution John Dickinson that Paine's Age of Reason was “absurd and impious”;

Charles Carroll, a signer of the Declaration, described Paine's work as “blasphemous writings against the Christian religion”;

John Witherspoon said that Paine was “ignorant of human nature as well as an enemy to the Christian faith”;

and Elias Boudinot, President of Congress, even published the Age of Revelation—a full-length rebuttal to Paine's work.

Patrick Henry, too, wrote a refutation of Paine's work which he described as “the puny efforts of Paine.”

When William Paterson, signer of the Constitution and a Justice on the U. S. Supreme Court, learned that some Americans seemed to agree with Paine's work, he thundered, “Infatuated Americans, why renounce your country, your religion, and your God?”

Zephaniah Swift, author of America's first law book, noted, “He has the impudence and effrontery [shameless boldness] to address to the citizens of the United States of America a paltry performance which is intended to shake their faith in the religion of their fathers.”

John Jay, an author of the Federalist Papers and the original Chief-Justice of the U. S. Supreme Court, was comforted by the fact that Christianity would prevail despite Paine's attack,” I have long been of the opinion that the evidence of the truth of Christianity requires only to be carefully examined to produce conviction in candid minds.”


In fact, Paine's views caused such vehement public opposition that he spent his last years in New York as “an outcast” in “social ostracism” and was buried in a farm field because no American cemetery would accept his remains.


Quote:
False quote attributed to Thomas Jefferson

Christianity...(has become) the most perverted system that ever shone on man. ...Rogueries, absurdities and untruths were perpetrated upon the teachings of Jesus by a large band of dupes and importers led by Paul, the first great corrupter of the teaching of Jesus.

This quote is not an actual quote. It has been disputed by Monticello.org : http://wiki.monticello.org/mediawik..._most_perverted_system_that_ever_shone_on_man

Another false and misleading quote attributed to Thomas Jefferson

I have examined all the known superstitions of the world, and I do not find in our particular superstition of Christianity one redeeming feature. They are all alike founded on fables and mythology. Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned. What has been the effect of this coercion? To make one half the world fools and the other half hypocrites; to support roguery and error all over the earth.

The first part of this quote is also disputed. It has falsely been attached to the second part (underlined) that has been taken out of context. Here is the context: http://etext.lib.virginia.edu/etcbi...act=text&offset=8287826&textreg=1&query=burnt

You ought to be more careful about from where you pull your information. It doesn't help your argument at all.

And here is what Ron Paul thinks of people who are trying to revise our nation's history: http://www.lewrockwell.com/paul/paul148.html
 
The following thread prompted this one:
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=125338&page=38

I reject the obvious desire to revise history on this matter. It is as though our heritage is something that should be feared and reviled, and so it must be denied. An Orwellian trait to be sure.

I’ve decided to share some facts about this issue, but before I get into it, allow me to preface this by stating that I believe in a Creator, and I believe that Christ was the human manifestation of that Creator. However, I do not belong to a religious organization. I am a recovering Catholic. I come from a very long line of Catholics that includes priests and nuns on my French-Canadian Father’s side. My Mother was raised with no religion as her Father was an atheist. I was baptized right after birth, but my parents did not raise me Catholic. I practiced Catholicism of my own volition as a young girl, up until the Priest molestation scandal and subsequent illegal alien advocacy of the Catholic Church.

While I believe there is a place in the world for religion, I also believe that way too many people see it as an end, rather than a means to an end. This undermines a person’s wisdom and sense of balance. Instead of viewing the church as a vehicle in which to teach people about the source of divine power and through which divine power can be channeled into man’s nature, people view the church as the power itself. And the church allows and even encourages this line of thinking. I believe this is extremely deceptive and destructive.

I see organized religion in the same way as I see government. If it is allowed to be corrupted, it will be. The idea of religion, as in the idea of capitalism is not, in and of itself, corrupt. But human nature dictates that those who are left to their own devices without any oversight or intervention, will inevitably succumb to the greed and corruption that comes with too much power.

The founders knew this. You can tell they did when you read the Declaration of Independence. Read how they describe King George. Their goal was to protect us against corruption of power. “[They] delivered to us a system of government which has enjoyed unprecedented success: we are now the world’s longest on-going constitutional republic. Two hundred years under the same document- and under one form of government – is an accomplishment unknown among contemporary nations. For example: Russia, Italy, Spain, and other nations underwent revolutions about the same time as the American Revolution, but with very different results. Consider France: in the last 200 years it has gone through seven completely different forms of governments; Italy has over 50 tries, yet we are still in our first.

Where then, did our Founding Fathers acquire the ideas that produced such longevity? Other nations certainly had access to what our Founders utilized, yet evidently chose not to. From what sources did our Founders choose their ideas?

This question was asked by political science professors at the University of Houston. They rightfully felt that they could determine the source of the Founders’ ideas if they could collect the writings from the Founding Era and see whom the Founders were quoting.

The researchers assembled 15,000 writings from the founding Era – no small sample – and searched those writings. That project spanned ten years; but at the end of that time, the researchers had isolated 3,154 direct quotes made by the Founders and had identified the source of those quotes.

The researchers discovered that Baron Charles de Montesquieu was the man quoted most often by the founding fathers, with 8.3 percent of the Founders’ quotes being taken from his writings. Sir William Blackstone was the second most-quoted individual with 7.9 percent of the Founder’s quotes, and John Locke was third with 2.9 percent.

Surprisingly, the researchers discovered that the founders quoted directly out of the bible 4 times more than they quoted Montesquieu, 4 times more often than they quoted Blackstone, and 12 times more often than they quoted John Locke. Thirty four percent of the Founders’ quotes came directly out of the bible.

The study was even more impressive when the source of the ideas used by Montesquieu, Blackstone, and Locke were identified. Consider for example, the source of Blackstone’s ideas. Blackstone’s Commentaries on the Laws was first introduced in 1768, and for the next 100 years America’s courts quoted Blackstone to settle disputes, to define words, and to examine procedure; Blackstone’s Commentaries were the final word in the Supreme Courts. So what was a significant source of Blackstone’s ideas? Perhaps the best answer to that question can be given through the life of Charles Finney.

Charles Finney is known as a famous revivalist, minister, and preacher from one of America’s greatest revivals; the Second Great Awakening in the early 1800’s. Finney, in his autobiography, spoke of how he received his call to ministry. He explained that – having determined to become a lawyer – he, like all other law students at the time, commenced the study of Blackstone’s Commentaries on the Laws. Finney observed that Blackstone’s Commentaries not only provided the laws, it also provided the Biblical concepts on which those laws were based. Finney explained that in the process of studying Blackstone, he read so much of the Bible that he became a Christian and received his call to the ministry. Finney’s life story clearly identified a major source of Blackstone’s ideas for law.

So, while 34% of the Founders’ quotes came directly out of the Bible, many of their quotes were taken from men – like Blackstone – who had used the Bible to arrive at their own conclusions.”

This doesn’t even include Supreme Court decisions, Congressional records, speeches, inaugurations, etc. all of which include sources of Biblical content and concepts. I can produce those as well, if need be ,as well as what was taught in American schools for the first 175 years.

Bear in mind, the above is not some made up opinion, it is well documented, irrefutable research into actual quotes from the Founders.


Sources:

David Barton, Original Intent, 1997

Donald Lutz, The Origins of American Constitutionalism 1988

“The Relative Influence of European Writers on Late Eighteenth Century American Political Thought” American Political Science Review
I posted this on MySpace.
 
Wow, thank you.
Thank you. I posted in the religion forum. It is getting the same hostile resistance there. These Atheists seem to be highly organized. They hold conventions. I say that it takes more faith to be an Atheist; than it does to believe in God.
 
Thank you. I posted in the religion forum. It is getting the same hostile resistance there. These Atheists seem to be highly organized. They hold conventions. I say that it takes more faith to be an Atheist; than it does to believe in God.

not an atheist jut not a Christian here :D
 
Deborah K, I'm pleased and impressed with your work, it is very good, well thought through and supported. You get a 5 pointed star by your name for that. I have made the same (basic) research as you and came to the same conclusions.

The shadowy ones have co-opted our country, they attack our roots, like mold, and they attack our virtue in an effort to replace it with their base depravity. This country was never founded on immorality or debauchery, so the tainted ones must try to destroy what displeases them. Unfortunately, they have gained the upper hand by guile, stealth and cunning. There is no depth they refuse to sink to to further their agenda.

If I fight back, I'm labeled a bigot, because far too many are still asleep. I'm not a bigot, I'm a realist and their adversary. I want my country back, as pristine as it was before they corrupted it. I wish them the just fruits of their treason.
 
Deborah K, I'm pleased and impressed with your work, it is very good, well thought through and supported. You get a 5 pointed star by your name for that. I have made the same (basic) research as you and came to the same conclusions.

The shadowy ones have co-opted our country, they attack our roots, like mold, and they attack our virtue in an effort to replace it with their base depravity. This country was never founded on immorality or debauchery, so the tainted ones must try to destroy what displeases them. Unfortunately, they have gained the upper hand by guile, stealth and cunning. There is no depth they refuse to sink to to further their agenda.

If I fight back, I'm labeled a bigot, because far too many are still asleep. I'm not a bigot, I'm a realist and their adversary. I want my country back, as pristine as it was before they corrupted it. I wish them the just fruits of their treason.

The tainted ones? Oi vey.
 
Deborah K, I'm pleased and impressed with your work, it is very good, well thought through and supported. You get a 5 pointed star by your name for that. I have made the same (basic) research as you and came to the same conclusions.

The shadowy ones have co-opted our country, they attack our roots, like mold, and they attack our virtue in an effort to replace it with their base depravity. This country was never founded on immorality or debauchery, so the tainted ones must try to destroy what displeases them. Unfortunately, they have gained the upper hand by guile, stealth and cunning. There is no depth they refuse to sink to to further their agenda.

If I fight back, I'm labeled a bigot, because far too many are still asleep. I'm not a bigot, I'm a realist and their adversary. I want my country back, as pristine as it was before they corrupted it. I wish them the just fruits of their treason.

Thank you for the kudos. Much appreciated.
:)
 
Deborah K, I'm pleased and impressed with your work, it is very good, well thought through and supported. You get a 5 pointed star by your name for that. I have made the same (basic) research as you and came to the same conclusions.

The shadowy ones have co-opted our country, they attack our roots, like mold, and they attack our virtue in an effort to replace it with their base depravity. This country was never founded on immorality or debauchery, so the tainted ones must try to destroy what displeases them. Unfortunately, they have gained the upper hand by guile, stealth and cunning. There is no depth they refuse to sink to to further their agenda.

If I fight back, I'm labeled a bigot, because far too many are still asleep. I'm not a bigot, I'm a realist and their adversary. I want my country back, as pristine as it was before they corrupted it. I wish them the just fruits of their treason.


Deborah K, I too am impressed by your research. Most likely even somebody with a Ph.D. in Biblical studies hasn't researched this topic as thoroughly.

As for the shadowly ones, I feel sorry for them and hope somehow they will have their eyes opened and understand the seriousness of what they are doing.
 
I am amazed at the ignorance and intolerance shown in this thread by those who would complain of the ignorance and intolorance of religious folk. Most of the vitriol seems to miss the point of the OP entirely. ITSM the denial of the bible's influence on western society is silly. It doesn't matter if the underlying tenents of the book were based on reptilian texts from atlantis:p, the evidence put forth clearly shows that the bible was the most qouted source and that the vast majority of founders were affiliated with JC religions.

Interesting and well researched post, Deborah. Thanks
 
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I believe some of our friends may have been offended by my post above, so let me explain. I do not for one second believe all Jews are anti-American, but many despise our heritage and anything Christian.

The ones I refer to embody that and the following characteristics, as well.

1) Knowing and understanding who those puppeteers are and refusing to renounce or expose them, preferring to be Jews first and Americans second, or benefiting from the deeds of those I refer to.

2) Allowing those descendents of Khazars to remain in their midst and shielding them from exposure and harm. (see #1) Working with or for them to the detriment of America, regardless of the degree of harm.

3) Refusing to assimilate and to become Americans first, determined to share our fate and to rejoice in our triumphs and commiserate in our failures, placing this country ahead of self. i.e. any loyalty to any other country, including Israel.

4) Anyone who assaults American traditions, including Christianity is NOT a true American. Jews have American principals and traditions under attack, just as they have done in every country they have occupied and destroyed for more than 5,000 years. Many Jews are not involved in this assault but shield and defend those who are involved. You are with America or you are with Israel, when it comes down to it, when support for Israel becomes damaging to America, failure to defend America makes you my enemy.

Anyone who refuses to understand that Israel and America's involvement and support for her has tended to destroy American values, traditions and standing in the world community, is intentionally blind, deceiving themselves or has been so totally indoctrinated by the Jewish-devised institution of political correctness, that they too should leave our shores.

This is my only country, I have served her and would gladly give my life to preserve her and keep her safe against all enemies foreign and particularly domestic. Anyone born here who gives their allegiance to any other country is no countryman of mine, and I would sooner they occupied the land with which they identify.

To defend the evil ones among us, who are damaging this country, or to identify with them, is treason. From my perspective, an offense deserving the death penalty.

I have no problem with someone being ultra rich, but when they use their power, as in the MSM, global banking, etc., to destroy ANY aspect of America-first culture, to the detriment of Americans, they have crossed the line in the sand, and there can be no redemption for them. They should be deported or executed.

America's relationship with Israel has damaged America and should be severed. Given the opportunity, I would put a sheet of black glass over Israel and seek out those responsible, here in America or abroad, and summarily execute them.

While I have no doubt that many Jews here in America are truly Americans first and share my love for her, many do not. To those, I would ask, if someone within your family had committed a heinous crime, would you help justice to be served or would you become and accessory to the crime? I understand how difficult a question like that is, but that is the choice many Jews are faced with, they know and understand America's plight, yet refuse to stand with her against her cloaked enemy. Being a chameleon doesn't hide your heart or end the conflict within you, it defines you, it is who you are.

Benjamin Freedman (a Jew) said that Jews are vampires, in that they can't live in Israel, inhabited only by other vampires, they must live among those they feed off of. Those are the ones to whom I refer.
 
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