Was America founded on Judeo-Christian Principles? Of Course it was!

[yongrel]

Other fun Christian values:

GE 3:1-7, 22-24 God allows Adam and Eve to be deceived by the Serpent (the craftiest of all of God's wild creatures). They eat of the "Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil," thereby incurring death for themselves and all of mankind for ever after. God prevents them from regaining eternal life, by placing a guard around the "Tree of Eternal Life." (Note: God could have done the same for the "Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil" in the first place and would thereby have prevented the Fall of man, the necessity for Salvation, the Crucifixion of Jesus, etc.)

GE 4:2-8 God's arbitrary preference of Abel's offering to that of Cain's provokes Cain to commit the first biblically recorded murder and kill his brother Abel.

GE 34:13-29 The Israelites kill Hamor, his son, and all the men of their village, taking as plunder their wealth, cattle, wives and children.

GE 6:11-17, 7:11-24 God is unhappy with the wickedness of man and decides to do something about it. He kills every living thing on the face of the earth other than Noah's family and thereby makes himself the greatest mass murderer in history.

GE 19:26 God personally sees to it that Lot's wife is turned to a pillar of salt (for having looked behind her while fleeing the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah).

GE 38:9 "... whenever he lay with his brother's wife, he spilled his semen on the ground to keep from producing offspring for his brother. What he did was wicked ..., so the Lord put him to death."

EX 2:12 Moses murders an Egyptian.

EX 7:1, 14, 9:14-16, 10:1-2, 11:7 The purpose of the devastation that God brings to the Egyptians is as follows:
to show that he is Lord;
to show that there is none like him in all the earth;
to show his great power;
to cause his name to be declared throughout the earth;
to give the Israelites something to talk about with their children;
to show that he makes a distinction between Israel and Egypt.

EX 9:22-25 A plague of hail from the Lord strikes down everything in the fields of Egypt both man and beast except in Goshen where the Israelites reside.

EX 12:29 The Lord kills all the first-born in the land of Egypt.

EX 17:13 With the Lord's approval, Joshua mows down Amalek and his people.

EX 21:20-21 With the Lord's approval, a slave may be beaten to death with no punishment for the perpetrator as long as the slave doesn't die too quickly.

EX 32:27 "Put every man his sword by his side, and go in and out from gate to gate throughout the camp, and slay every man his brother, and every man his companion, and every man his neighbor.

EX 32:27-29 With the Lord's approval, the Israelites slay 3000 men.

LE 26:7-8 The Lord promises the Israelites that, if they are obedient, their enemies will "fall before your sword."

LE 26:22 "I will also send wild beasts among you, which shall rob you of your children."

LE 26:29, DT 28:53, JE 19:9, EZ 5:8-10 As a punishment, the Lord will cause people to eat the flesh of their own sons and daughters and fathers and friends.

LE 27:29 Human sacrifice is condoned. (Note: An example is given in JG 11:30-39)

NU 11:33 The Lord smites the people with a great plague.

NU 12:1-10 God makes Miriam a leper for seven days because she and Aaron had spoken against Moses.

NU 15:32-36 A Sabbath breaker (who had gathered sticks for a fire) is stoned to death at the Lord's command.

NU 16:27-33 The Lord causes the earth to open and swallow up the men and their households (including wives and children) because the men had been rebellious.

NU 16:35 A fire from the Lord consumes 250 men.

NU 16:49 A plague from the Lord kills 14,700 people.

NU 21:3 The Israelites utterly destroy the Canaanites.

NU 21:6 Fiery serpents, sent by the Lord, kill many Israelites.

NU 21:35 With the Lord's approval, the Israelites slay Og "... and his sons and all his people, until there was not one survivor left ...."

NU 25:4 (KJV) "And the Lord said unto Moses, take all the heads of the people, and hang them up before the Lord against the sun ...."

NU 25:8 "He went after the man of Israel into the tent, and thrust both of them through, the man of Israel, and the woman through her belly."

NU 25:9 24,000 people die in a plague from the Lord.

NU 31:9 The Israelites capture Midianite women and children.

NU 31:17-18 Moses, following the Lord's command, orders the Israelites to kill all the Midianite male children and "... every woman who has known man ...." (Note: How would it be determined which women had known men? One can only speculate.)

NU 31:31-40 32,000 virgins are taken by the Israelites as booty. Thirty-two are set aside (to be sacrificed?) as a tribute for the Lord.

DT 2:33-34 The Israelites utterly destroy the men, women, and children of Sihon.

DT 3:6 The Israelites utterly destroy the men, women, and children of Og.

DT 7:2 The Lord commands the Israelites to "utterly destroy" and shown "no mercy" to those whom he gives them for defeat.

DT 20:13-14 "When the Lord delivers it into your hand, put to the sword all the males .... As for the women, the children, the livestock and everything else in the city, you may take these as plunder for yourselves."

DT 20:16 "In the cities of the nations the Lord is giving you as an inheritance, do not leave alive anything that breathes."

DT 21:10-13 With the Lord's approval, the Israelites are allowed to take "beautiful women" from the enemy camp to be their captive wives. If, after sexual relations, the husband has "no delight" in his wife, he can simply let her go.

DT 28:53 "You will eat the fruit of the womb, the flesh of the sons and daughters the Lord your God has given you."

JS 1:1-9, 18 Joshua receives the Lord's blessing for all the bloody endeavors to follow.

JS 6:21-27 With the Lord's approval, Joshua destroys the city of Jericho men, women, and children with the edge of the sword.

JS 7:19-26 Achan, his children and his cattle are stoned to death because Achan had taken a taboo thing.

JS 8:22-25 With the Lord's approval, Joshua utterly smites the people of Ai, killing 12,000 men and women, so that there were none who escaped.

JS 10:10-27 With the help of the Lord, Joshua utterly destroys the Gibeonites.

JS 10:28 With the Lord's approval, Joshua utterly destroys the people of Makkedah.

JS 10:30 With the Lord's approval, Joshua utterly destroys the Libnahites.

JS 10:32-33 With the Lord's approval, Joshua utterly destroys the people of Lachish.

JS 10:34-35 With the Lord's approval, Joshua utterly destroys the Eglonites.

JS 10:36-37 With the Lord's approval, Joshua utterly destroys the Hebronites.

JS 10:38-39 With the Lord's approval, Joshua utterly destroys the Debirites.

JS 10:40 (A summary statement.) "So Joshua defeated the whole land ...; he left none remaining, but destroyed all that breathed, as the Lord God of Israel commanded."

JS 11:6 The Lord orders horses to be hamstrung. (Exceedingly cruel.)

JS 11:8-15 "And the lord gave them into the hand of Israel, ...utterly destroying them; there was none left that breathed ...."

JS 11:20 "For it was the Lord's doing to harden their hearts that they should come against Israel in battle, in order that they should be utterly destroyed, and should receive no mercy but be exterminated, as the Lord commanded Moses."

JS 11:21-23 Joshua utterly destroys the Anakim.

JG 1:4 With the Lord's support, Judah defeats 10,000 Canaanites at Bezek.

JG 1:6 With the Lord's approval, Judah pursues Adoni-bezek, catches him, and cuts off his thumbs and big toes.

JG 1:8 With the Lord's approval, Judah smites Jerusalem.

JG 1:17 With the Lord's approval, Judah and Simeon utterly destroy the Canaanites who inhabited Zephath.

JG 3:29 The Israelites kill about 10,000 Moabites.

JG 3:31 (A restatement.) Shamgar killed 600 Philistines with an oxgoad.

JG 4:21 Jael takes a tent stake and hammers it through the head of Sisera, fastening it to the ground.

JG 7:19-25 The Gideons defeat the Midianites, slay their princes, cut off their heads, and bring the heads back to Gideon.

JG 8:15-21 The Gideons slaughter the men of Penuel.

JG 9:5 Abimalech murders his brothers.

JG 9:45 Abimalech and his men kill all the people in the city.

JG 9:53-54 "A woman dropped a stone on his head and cracked his skull. Hurriedly he called to his armor-bearer, 'Draw your sword and kill me, so that they can't say a woman killed me.' So his servant ran him through, and he died."

JG 11:29-39 Jepthah sacrifices his beloved daughter, his only child, according to a vow he has made with the Lord.

JG 14:19 The Spirit of the Lord comes upon a man and causes him to slay thirty men.

JG 15:15 Samson slays 1000 men with the jawbone of an ass.

JG 16:21 The Philistines gouge out Samson's eyes.

JG 16:27-30 Samson, with the help of the Lord, pulls down the pillars of the Philistine house and causes his own death and that of 3000 other men and women.

JG 18:27 The Danites slay the quiet and unsuspecting people of Laish.

JG 19:22-29 A group of sexual depraved men beat on the door of an old man's house demanding that he turn over to them a male house guest. Instead, the old man offers his virgin daughter and his guest's concubine (or wife): "Behold, here are my virgin daughter and his concubine; let me bring them out now. Ravish them and do with them what seems good to you; but against this man do not do so vile a thing." The man's concubine is ravished and dies. The man then cuts her body into twelve pieces and sends one piece to each of the twelve tribes of Israel.

JG 20:43-48 The Israelites smite 25,000+ "men of valor" from amongst the Benjamites, "men and beasts and all that they found," and set their towns on fire.

JG 21:10-12 "... Go and smite the inhabitants of Jabesh-gilead with the edge of the sword and; also the women and little ones.... every male and every woman that has lain with a male you shall utterly destroy." They do so and find four hundred young virgins whom they bring back for their own use.

1SA 4:10 The Philistines slay 30,000 Israelite foot soldiers.

1SA 5:6-9 The Lord afflicts the Philistines with tumors in their "secret parts," presumably for having stolen the Ark.

1SA 6:19 God kills seventy men (or so) for looking into the Ark (at him?). (Note: The early Israelites apparently thought the Ark to be God's abode.)

1SA 7:7-11 Samuel and his men smite the Philistines.

1SA 11:11 With the Lord's blessing, Saul and his men cut down the Ammonites.

1SA 14:31 Jonathan and his men strike down the Philistines.

1SA 14:48 Saul smites the Amalekites.

1SA 15:3, 7-8 "This is what the Lord says: Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have; do not spare them, but kill both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass ....' And Saul ... utterly destroyed all the people with the edge of the sword."

1SA 15:33 "Samuel hewed Agag in pieces before the Lord ...."

1SA 18:7 The women sing as they make merry: "Saul has slain his thousands and David his ten thousands."

1SA 18:27 David murders 200 Philistines, then cuts off their foreskins.

1SA 30:17 David smites the Amalekites.

2SA 2:23 Abner kills Asahel.

2SA 3:30 Joab and Abishai kill Abner.

2SA 4:7-8 Rechan and Baanah kill Ish-bosheth, behead him, and take his head to David.

2SA 4:12 David has Rechan and Baanah killed, their hands and feet cut off, and their bodies hanged by the pool at Hebron.

2SA 5:25 "And David did as the Lord commanded him, and smote the Philistines ...."

2SA 6:2-23 Because she rebuked him for having exposed himself, Michal (David's wife) was barren throughout her life.

2SA 8:1-18 (A listing of some of David's murderous conquests.)

2SA 8:4 David hamstrung all but a few of the horses.

2SA 8:5 David slew 22,000 Syrians.

2SA 8:6, 14 "The Lord gave victory to David wherever he went."

2SA 8:13 David slew 18,000 Edomites in the valley of salt and made the rest slaves.

2SA 10:18 David slew 47,000+ Syrians.

2SA 11:14-27 David has Uriah killed so that he can marry Uriah's wife, Bathsheba.

2SA 12:1, 19 The Lord strikes David's child dead for the sin that David has committed.

2SA 13:1-15 Amnon loves his sister Tamar, rapes her, then hates her.

2SA 13:28-29 Absalom has Amnon murdered.

2SA 18:6 -7 20,000 men are slaughtered at the battle in the forest of Ephraim.

2SA 18:15 Joab's men murder Absalom.

2SA 20:10-12 Joab's men murder Amasa and leave him "... wallowing in his own blood in the highway. And anyone who came by, seeing him, stopped."

2SA 24:15 The Lord sends a pestilence on Israel that kills 70,000 men.

1KI 2:24-25 Solomon has Adonijah murdered.

1KI 2:29-34 Solomon has Joab murdered.

1KI 2:46 Solomon has Shime-i murdered.

1KI 13:15-24 A man is killed by a lion for eating bread and drinking water in a place where the Lord had previously told him not to. This is in spite of the fact that the man had subsequently been lied to by a prophet who told the man that an angel of the Lord said that it would be alright to eat and drink there.

1KI 20:29-30 The Israelites smite 100,000 Syrian soldiers in one day. A wall falls on 27,000 remaining Syrians.

2KI 1:10-12 Fire from heaven comes down and consumes fifty men.

2KI 2:23-24 Forty-two children are mauled and killed, presumably according to the will of God, for having jeered at a man of God.

2KI 5:27 Elisha curses Gehazi and his descendants forever with leprosy.

2KI 6:18-19 The Lord answers Elisha's prayer and strikes the Syrians with blindness. Elisha tricks the blind Syrians and leads them to Samaria.

2KI 6:29 "So we cooked my son and ate him. The next day I said to her, 'Give up your son so we may eat him,' but she had hidden him."

2KI 9:24 Jehu tricks and murders Joram.

2KI 9:27 Jehu has Ahaziah killed.

2KI 9:30-37 Jehu has Jezebel killed. Her body is trampled by horses. Dogs eat her flesh so that only her skull, feet, and the palms of her hands remain.

2KI 10:7 Jehu has Ahab's seventy sons beheaded, then sends the heads to their father.

2KI 10:14 Jehu has forty-two of Ahab's kin killed.

2KI 10:17 "And when he came to Samaria, he slew all that remained to Ahab in Samaria, till he had wiped them out, according to the word of the Lord ...."

2KI 10:19-27 Jehu uses trickery to massacre the Baal worshippers.

2KI 11:1 Athaliah destroys all the royal family.

2KI 14:5, 7 Amaziah kills his servants and then 10,000 Edomites.

2KI 15:3-5 Even though he did what was right in the eyes of the Lord, the Lord smites Azariah with leprosy for not having removed the "high places."

2KI 15:16 Menahem ripped open all the women who were pregnant.

2KI 19:35 An angel of the Lord kills 185,000 men.

1CH 20:3 (KJV) "And he brought out the people that were in it, and cut them with saws, and with harrows of iron, and with axes."

2CH 13:17 500,000 Israelites are slaughtered.

2CH 21:4 Jehoram slays all his brothers.

PS 137:9 Happy will be the man who dashes your little ones against the stones.

PS 144:1 God is praised as the one who trains hands for war and fingers for battle.

IS 13:15 "Everyone who is captured will be thrust through; all who are caught will fall by the sword. Their infants will be dashed to pieces before their eyes; their ... wives will be ravished."

IS 13:18 "Their bows also shall dash the young men to pieces; and they shall have no pity on the fruit of the womb; their eye shall not spare children."

IS 14:21-22 "Prepare slaughter for his children for the iniquity of their fathers."

IS 49:26 The Lord will cause the oppressors of the Israelite's to eat their own flesh and to become drunk on their own blood as with wine.

JE 16:4 "They shall die grievous deaths; they shall not be lamented; neither shall they be buried; but they shall be as dung upon the face of the earth: and they shall be consumed by the sword, and by famine; and their carcasses shall be meat for the fowls of heaven, and for the beasts of the earth."

LA 4:9-10 "Those slain by the sword are better off than those who die of famine; racked with hunger, they waste away for lack of food. ... pitiful women have cooked their own children, who became their food ..."

EZ 6:12-13 The Lord says: "... they will fall by the sword, famine and plague. He that is far away will die of the plague, and he that is near will fall by the sword, and he that survives and is spared will die of famine. So will I spend my wrath upon them. And they will know I am the Lord, when the people lie slain among their idols around their altars, on every high hill and on all the mountaintops, under every spreading tree and every leafy oak ...."

EZ 9:4-6 The Lord commands: "... slay old men outright, young men and maidens, little children and women ...."

EZ 20:26 In order that he might horrify them, the Lord allowed the Israelites to defile themselves through, amongst other things, the sacrifice of their first-born children.

EZ 21:3-4 The Lord says that he will cut off both the righteous and the wicked that his sword shall go against all flesh.

EZ 23:25, 47 God is going to slay the sons and daughters of those who were whores.

EZ 23:34 "You shall ... pluck out your hair, and tear your breasts."

HO 13:16 "They shall fall by the sword: their infants shall be dashed in pieces, and their women with child shall be ripped up."

MI 3:2-3 "... who pluck off their skin ..., and their flesh from off their bones; Who also eat the flesh of my people, and flay their skin from off them; and they break their bones, and chop them in pieces, as for the pot, and as flesh within the caldron."

MT 3:12, 8:12, 10:21, 13:30, 42, 22:13, 24:51, 25:30, LK 13:28, JN 5:24 Some will spend eternity burning in Hell. There will be weeping, wailing and gnashing of teeth.

MT 10:21 "... the brother shall deliver up his brother to death, and the father his child, ... children shall rise up against their parents, and cause them to be put to death."

MT 10:35-36 "For I have come to turn a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law a man's enemies will be the members of his own family."

MT 11:21-24 Jesus curses [the inhabitants of] three cities who were not sufficiently impressed with his great works.

AC 13:11 Paul purposefully blinds a man (though not permanently).

 

[mtmedlin]

I have no argument with you on that. Again, I am debating the denial of Christian principles in our heritage.

and I am arguing that they arent Christian principles if the bible ripped of the principles from other places. Just my minor distate for the arrogance of those that profess the incomplete holy book known as the Bible.



btw Yongrel, nice list.

 

[yongrel]

Even more Family Values from Christianity!

GE 4:17 Cain's wife would likely have been his sister. (Note, assuming that Cain was, say, 100 years older than his wife, his wife could possibly have been a niece rather than a sister.)

(KJV) GE 17:10-14, 23-27, 21:4, 34:15, 17, 22, 24, EX 4:26, 12:44, 48, LE 12:3, DT 10:16, 30:6, JS 5:2-5, 7-8, JE 4:4, 9:25, LK 1:59, LK 2:21, JN 7:22-23, AC 7:8, 10:45, 11:2, 15:1, 5, 24, 16:3, RO 2:25-29, 3:1, 30, 4:9-12, 15:8, CO 7:18-19, GA 2:3, 7-9, 12, 5:2-3, 6, 11, 6:12-13, 15, EP 2:11, PH 3:3, 3:5, CN 2:11, 3:11, 4:11, TS 1:10 Various references to circumcision, some quite vulgar.

(KJV)GE 17:11, 14, 23-25, EX 4:25, LE 12:3, DE 10:16, JS 5:3, SA 18:25, 27, SA 3:14, JE 4:4, HA 2:16 Various references to foreskins, some rather vulgar.

GE 9:22 Ham, the father of Canaan, saw his father's nakedness.

GE 19:4-8 A group of sexually depraved men demands that Lot turn over to them his two male visitors. Lot offers his two virgin daughters instead.

GE 19:30-38 Lot's daughters have sexual intercourse with him while he is drunk and both become pregnant by their father.

GE 24:2-9, 47:29 "... put your hand under my thigh, and I will make you swear by the Lord ...." (Note: This means "put your hand under my testicles," which is the manner in which oaths were taken at the time; "testament," "testify," and "testicle" have the same root.)

GE 29:16-30 Jacob marries both Leah and her sister Rachel. He has children by both Leah and Rachel's maid Bilhah, but Rachel remains barren. Due apparently to Rachel's generosity to her husband, the Lord eventually allows Rachel to conceive.

GE 34:1-2 Shechem defiles Dinah.

GE 34:13-29 Hamor, his son, and the men of their village agree to be circumcised so as to be allowed to marry the daughters of the Israelites. On the third day, "when they were sore," the Israelites kill Hamor, his son, and all the men of the village, and plunder their wealth, taking their wives and children, thus getting revenge for the defiling of Dinah.

GE 35:22 (KJV) "Reuben went and lay with Bilhah, his fathers concubine."

GE 38:9 Onan "spills his seed" on the ground rather than fulfill his obligation to his widowed sister-in-law to father a child by her.

GE 38:13-19 Tamar plays the role of a harlot in order to have sexual intercourse with her father-in-law. She conceives and twins are born.

GE 39:7-23 The wife of Joseph's master tries to get Joseph to go to bed with her. He refuses, and flees leaving his "garment in her hand." She claims that Joseph tried to rape her, and Joseph ends up imprisoned.

EX 20:26 "Neither shalt thou go up by steps unto mine altar, that thy nakedness be not discovered thereon."

LE 15:16-19 (KJV) "And if any man's seed of copulation go out from him, then he shall wash all his flesh in water, and be unclean until the even. And every garment, and every skin, whereon is the seed of copulation, shall be washed with water, and be unclean until the even. The woman also with whom man shall lie with seed of copulation, they shall both bathe themselves in water, and be unclean until the even. And if a woman have an issue, and her issue in her flesh be blood, she shall be put apart seven days: and whosoever toucheth her shall be unclean ...."

LE 21:20, 22:24 (References to testicles, or "stones" in the KJV.)

NU 31:17-18 "... all the young girls who have not known man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves." (Note: How did they determine which girls were virgins, and what did they do with them after they kept them alive for themselves? This is not a pretty picture.)

NU 31:31-40 32,000 virgins are taken by the Israelites as booty of which thirty-two are set aside as a tribute for the Lord.

DT 21:10-14 With the Lord's approval, the Israelites are allowed to kidnap "beautiful women" from the enemy camp to be their trial wives. If, after having sexual relations, a man has "no delight" in his wife, he can simply let her go.

DT 23:1 (KJV) "He that is wounded in the stones [testicles], or hath his privy member [penis] cut off, shall not enter into the congregation of the Lord."

DT 28:15, 30 If you do not obey the voice of the Lord, the Lord will cause another man to "lie with" your wife-to-be.

JS 5:3 "... the Hill of Foreskins."

JG 8:30-31 Gideon had many wives as well as a concubine.

JG 19:22-29 A group of sexual depraved men beat on the door of an old man's house demanding that he turn over to them a male house guest. Instead, the old man offers his virgin daughter and his guest's concubine (or wife): "Behold, here are my virgin daughter and his concubine; let me bring them out now. Ravish them and do with them what seems good to you; but against this man do not do so vile a thing." The man's concubine is ravished and dies. The man then cuts her body into twelve pieces and sends one piece to each of the twelve tribes of Israel.

JG 21:11-12 "This is what you shall do; every male and every woman that has lain with man you shall utterly destroy. And they found ... four hundred young virgins who had not known man by lying with him; and they brought them to the camp ...." (Again, how did they determine which girls were virgins? This is not a pretty picture.)

JG 21:14-23 The 400 virgins captured above prove to be insufficient, so the Benjaminites hide in the vineyards and kidnap "the daughters of Shiloh" as they come out to dance and celebrate.

SA 5:6-9 The Lord afflicts Philistines with tumors in their "secret parts."

SA 18:27 So that David might be allowed to marry the king's daughter, the king asks David to bring him 100 Philistine foreskins. David does the job right and brings the king not 100, but 200, foreskins of murdered Philistines.

SA 25:22, 25:34, 1KI 14:10, 16:10-11, 21:21, 2KI 9:8 (KJV) "... him that pisseth ...."

SA 19:24 "And he stripped off his clothes also, and prophesied before Samuel in like manner, and lay down naked all that day and all that night."

SA 3:7 (KJV) "Wherefore hast thou gone in unto [a euphemism for sexual intercourse] my fathers concubine?"

SA 5:13, 20:3 David had many concubines.

SA 6:14, 16, 20-23 David dances and exposes himself to his maids. (His wife, Michal rebukes him for having done so, and as a consequence she is made barren.)

SA 12:11-12 The Lord is going to punish David for his sin by taking his wives and causing his neighbor to have sexual relations with them in public.

SA 13:1-14 King David's son, Amnon, rapes his half-sister, Tamar.

SA 16:22 Absalom "went into his father's concubines" in the sight of all Israel.

KI 1:1-4 David was old, and although covered with clothes, could not get warm. A beautiful, young virgin is brought in to be his concubine and nurse. But alas, he was so old and infirm that he "knew her not."

KI 11:3 Solomon (the wisest man ever) had 700 wives and 300 concubines.

KI 6:29 "So we cooked my son and ate him. The next day I said to her, 'Give up your son so we may eat him,' but she had hidden him."

KI 18:27, IS 36:12 (KJV) "... eat their own dung and drink their own piss." (Note: Although correctly translated according to the oldest Hebrew manuscripts, piss and pisseth have been re-translated to something more "godly" in all versions since the KJV.)

CH 11:21 Rehoboam had eighteen wives and sixty concubines.

ES 2:2-17 King Ahasuerus holds a sexual contest with "fair young virgins" to pick a new Queen (after having been spurned by Queen Vashti).

PR 5:19 (KJV) "... Let her breasts satisfy thee at all times; and be thou ravished always with her love."

SO 1:13 "My beloved is to me a bag of myrrh, that lies between my breasts."

SO 2:3 "I sat down under his shadow with great delight, and his fruit was sweet to my taste."

SO 2:6, 8:3 "His left hand is under my head, and his right hand embraces me."

SO 2:16, 6:3 "My lover is mine and I am his. He browses among the lilies."

SO 4:5, 7:3 "Your two breasts are like two fawns ...."

SO 5:4 (KJV) "My beloved put in his hand by the hole of the door, and my bowels were moved for him."

SO 7:1-2 "... the joints of your thighs are like jewels ...."

SO 7:7-9 "You are stately as a palm tree, and your breasts are like its clusters. I say I will climb the palm tree and lay hold of its branches. Oh may your breasts be like clusters of the vine ...."

SO 8:10 "... and my breasts were like towers."

IS 3:17 "The Lord will smite with a scab the crown of the head of the daughters of Zion, and the Lord will uncover their secret parts."

IS 13:15 "Their infants will be dashed to pieces before their eyes; their ... wives will be ravished."

IS 20:2-4 The Lord himself apparently commands his servant to go naked for three years.

IS 57:8 "Behind your doors and doorpost ... you uncovered your bed, you climbed into it and opened it wide; you made a pact with those whose beds you love, and you looked on their nakedness."

LA 4:21 "... thou shalt be drunken, and shalt make thyself naked."

EZ 4:12 (KJV) "And thou shalt eat it as barley cakes, and thou shalt bake it with dung that cometh out of man, in their sight. And the Lord said, Even thus shall the children of Israel eat their defiled bread ...."

EZ 4:15 (KJV) "... I have given thee cows dung for mans dung, and thou shalt prepare thy bread therewith."

EZ 16:7 "... You grew up and ... arrived at full maidenhood; your breasts were formed ... yet you were naked and bare."

EZ 16:8 "Later I passed by, and when I looked at you and saw that you were old enough for love, I spread the corner of my garment over you and covered your nakedness. I gave you my solemn oath and entered into a covenant with you, declares the Sovereign Lord, and you became mine."

EZ 16:22 "... you were naked and bare, kicking about in your blood."

EZ 16:36 "... your shame was laid bare and your nakedness uncovered in your harlotries with your lovers ...."

EZ 16:37 "Therefore I am going to gather all your lovers, with whom you took pleasure, those you loved as well as those you hated. I will gather them against you from every side and will strip you in front of them, and they will see all your nakedness."

EZ 16:39 "... they will strip you of your clothes, ... and leave you naked and bare."

EZ 23:3 "They played the harlot in Egypt; they played the harlot in their youth; there were their breasts fondled and their virgin bosoms handled." Or, as the KJV puts it: "they bruised the teats of their virginity."

EZ 23:8 (KJV) "... in her youth they lay with her, and they bruised the breasts of her virginity, and poured their whoredom upon her."

EZ 23:10 "They stripped her naked, took away her sons and daughters and killed her with the sword."

EZ 23:17 (KJV) "And the Babylonians came to her into the bed of love, and they defiled her with their whoredom, and she was polluted with them ...."

EZ 23:18 (KJV) "So she discovered her whoredoms, and discovered her nakedness: ...."

EZ 23:20-21 (RSV) "Yet she increased her harlotry ... and doted on her paramours there, whose members [i.e., sexual organs] were like those of asses and whose issue was like that of horses. Thus you longed for the lewdness of your youth, when the Egyptians handled your bosom and pressed your young breasts."

EZ 23:29 (KJV) "... and shall leave thee naked and bare: and the nakedness of thy whoredoms shall be discovered, both thy lewdness and thy whoredoms."

EZ 23:34 "You shall ... pluck out your hair, and tear your breasts."

HO 1:2 (KJV) "And the Lord said to Hosea, Go, take unto thee a wife of whoredoms and children of whoredoms: for the land hath committed great whoredom.'"

HO 2:2 (KJV) "... let her ... put away her whoredoms out of her sight, and her adulteries from between her breasts ...."

HO 2:3 "Otherwise I will strip her naked and make her as bare as the day she was born."

HO 13:16 "They shall fall by the sword: their infants shall be dashed in pieces, and their women with child shall be ripped up."

AM 2:16 " Even the bravest warriors will flee naked on that day,' declares the Lord."

MI 1:8 "I will go stripped and naked."

MI 3:2-3 "... who pluck off their skin ..., and their flesh from off their bones; Who also eat the flesh of my people, and flay their skin from off them; and they break their bones, and chop them in pieces, as for the pot, and as flesh within the caldron."

NA 3:5 " I am against you,' says the Lord ... , and will lift up your skirts over your face; I will show the nations your nakedness and kingdoms your shame.'"

HA 2:15 "Woe to him who gives drink to his neighbors, pouring it from the wineskin till they are drunk, so that he can gaze on their naked bodies."

MA 2:3 The Lord says that he will spread dung upon the faces of the priests.

MK 14:51-52 A young man discards his clothing and flees naked.

JN 21:7 (KJV) "Now when Simon Peter heard that it was the Lord, he girt his fishers coat unto him, for he was naked, and did cast himself into the sea."

AC 19:13-16 Seven Jewish exorcists are overpowered by a man with a demon and flee naked and wounded.

RE 16:15 When Jesus comes again, he will come like a thief in the night so that those who do not have their clothes [on] will go naked and be shamefully exposed.

RE 17:16 "They will bring her to ruin and leave her naked; they will eat her flesh and burn her with fire."

 

[Deborah K]

Yongrel:

Every single verse you just quoted comes from the Old Testament which pre-dates Christianity with exception to the book of Revelation, and the couple of others you listed at the end.

Yes, Christianity was born out of Judaism, but if you know anything about the bible you know that Jesus came to fulfill the prophesies in the Old Testament and begin a new convenant. Another mistake you are making is in trying to take modern day views and apply them to ancient practices, ie. your example about stoning women. What makes you think that was a "Christian" value?

There is a story in the New Testament where Jesus intervenes on behalf of a woman being stoned, but again, if you knew what you were talking about, you'd know that during the time of Jesus, "Christianity" did not exist. Jesus was a Jew, his followers were all Jews. Christianity didn't take its form until long after he was crucified.

 

[yongrel]

Yongrel:

Every single verse you just quoted comes from the Old Testament which pre-dates Christianity with exception to the book of Revelation, and the couple of others you listed at the end.

Yes, Christianity was born out of Judaism, but if you know anything about the bible you know that Jesus came to fulfill the prophesies in the Old Testament and begin a new convenant. Another mistake you are making is in trying to take modern day views and apply them to ancient practices, ie. your example about stoning women. What makes you think that was a "Christian" value?

There is a story in the New Testament where Jesus intervenes on behalf of a woman being stoned, but again, if you knew what you were talking about, you'd know that during the time of Jesus, "Christianity" did not exist. Jesus was a Jew, his followers were all Jews. Christianity didn't take its form until long after he was crucified.

So does Chrisitianity not include the Old Testament? The Old Testament doesn't count?

So where are these Young Earth creationists getting their info from?

 

[Tdcci]

An outright lie? How so? Up to that point in our history, kids could pray in school, etc, etc. For 175 years this was the case and more.

Children could ALWAYS pray in school, even today! You can't regulate that, because you don't know what the kids are thinking. As I explained in the second paragraph, the court struck down GOVERNMENT DIRECTED PRAYING, THAT IS GOVERNMENT RESPECTING A PARTICULAR RELIGION

Again, sheesh, you need to check your history facts. Look at Reynolds v. United States, Everson v. Board of Education, Baer v. Kolmorgen.

Reynolds v. United States: A man violated polygamy laws and tried to evade the fine by saying that his religion permitted it. This is absolutely insane. If this passed, then everybody would have their own law according to their religion! There would be chaos! The court ruled that it was not a valid defense and I completely agree with the court's decision.

Everson v. Board of Education: a New Jersey public school subsidized travel to private catholic schools, therefore respecting one religion. The court recognized that, but ruled it was constitutionally permissable. I see nothing wrong with the ruling.

Baer v. Kolmorgen: I actually couldn't find what this case was about, whether that was by intentional misspelling or how it was covered up in Christian blogs using it to attack the seperation of church and state. What I gather from those who reference the case is that a dissenting judge predicted that if the principle of Seperation of Church and State was going to continue to be used, that people would believe someday that it was part of the Constitution. You're going to have to get me a link to the case, if the case is relevant and not that quote (unlikely).

No one is denying our godly heritage? I invite the readers on this forum to look through Tdcc's posts and read what he/she has written. Talk about lies.

I've written some unpopular things, but I wouldn't call them lies. Good job avoiding the question, btw.

Tdcc, start backing up your argument with facts because I'm not going to waste my time with baseless opinions.

I should ask the same of you, but I already did. You presented all the "facts" in your arsenal, that X% of those who wrote key founding documents were religious. Doesn't prove that religion had any influence on the Country's founding, but that doesn't stop you from going into a rant about seperation of church and state and how the godless communists are oppressing religious children.

 

[mtmedlin]

The 400 virgins captured above prove to be insufficient, so the Benjaminites hide in the vineyards and kidnap "the daughters of Shiloh" as they come out to dance and celebrate

Wow, I thought that I had a strong "drive"

 

[Tdcci]

So does Chrisitianity not include the Old Testament? The Old Testament doesn't count?

So where are these Young Earth creationists getting their info from?

If you strip out the old testament you have to take the "Judeo" out of "Judeo-Christian". Even with the old testament, Judaism and Christianity have very little in common. Christians love to quote the Old Testment to justify their hatred for gays, women, and black people but then throw it all away when they are shown what other things appear in those books

 

[micahnelson]

Ok, shes just saying Christianity played a role in the founding of America. I don't think you can argue against that point- what hasn't had a religious element in recent history. Shes not a theocrat give her a break.

We are, or should be, all on the same side here.

 

[Tdcci]

Ok, shes just saying Christianity played a role in the founding of America.

That deviates significantly from the title. Maybe Christianity showed the founders how NOT to run a country, Church of England etc. I can accept that.

I don't think you can argue that point. Shes not a theocrat give her a break.

I think she is a theocrat, she is trying to argue that the seperation of church and state is a lie.

We are, or should be, all on the same side here.

Which side is that?

 

[micahnelson]

The side of limited government. Shes coming in from a Conservative Christian background, drawn by limited government and lower taxes. She probably had to overcome the war issue and is still learning. I think we should regard each other as works in progress, ya know? I came from this camp to some degree as well.

Others have come from the left side, these are typified by the Kucinich supporters we have attracted. The anti-war draws them, but they have to learn how social programs are not really beneficial to end poverty, etc. Its a learning curve for all of us.

I just want to make sure this doesn't become like the hannity forums, institutionalized bickering. Points have been made, and she has backed off her original assertions.

Lets not be pricks about it, i guess is what im saying.

 

[Patriot123]

So what you're saying is, the research done by the University of Houston which I presented in my OP and which is based on 15,000 writings and their origins, is just bunk because you said so??? Sorry but you're going to have to do a much better job of disproving the research.

As far as your claim that the founders were atheists, deists, etc. blah, blah, blah.
Debunk the following then, and do it with the research of reputable sources otherwise please stop wasting my time and everyone else's who would like to have an intellectually honest debate about this.

Religious Affiliation of the Delegates to the Constitutional Convention of 1787, including the Signers of the Constitution of the United States of America.

There were 55 delegates to the Constitutional Convention of 1787 at which the U.S. Constitution was drafted and signed. All participated in the proceedings which resulted in the Constitution, but only 39 of these delegates were actually signers of the document.

From: Robert G. Ferris (editor), Signers of the Constitution: Historic Places Commemorating the Signing of the Constitution, published by the United States Department of the Interior, National Park Service: Washington, D.C. (revised edition 1976), page 138:

Most of the [signers of the Constitution] married and fathered children. Sherman sired the largest family, numbering 15 by two wives... Three (Baldwin, Gilman, and Jenifer) were lifetime bachelors. In terms of religious affiliation, the men mirrored the overwhelmingly Protestant character of American religious life at the time and were members of various denominations. Only two, Carroll and Fitzsimons, were Roman Catholics.

Religious Affiliation # of delegates % of delegates

Episcopalian/Anglican 31 56.4%
Presbyterian 16 29.1%
Congregationalist 8 14.5%
Quaker 3 5.5%
Catholic 2 3.6%
Methodist 2 3.6%
Lutheran 2 3.6%
Dutch Reformed 2 3.6%

TOTAL 55 100%


Name of Signer State Religious Affiliation

Daniel Carroll Maryland Catholic
Thomas Fitzsimons Pennsylvania Catholic
Roger Sherman Connecticut Congregationalist
Nathaniel Gorham Massachusetts Congregationalist
John Langdon New Hampshire Congregationalist
Nicholas Gilman New Hampshire Congregationalist
Abraham Baldwin Georgia Congregationalist; Episcopalian
William Samuel Johnson Connecticut Episcopalian; Presbyterian
James Madison Jr. Virginia Episcopalian
George Read - Delaware Episcopalian
Daniel of St. Thomas Jenifer Maryland Episcopalian
David Brearly New Jersey Episcopalian
Richard Dobbs Spaight, Sr. North Carolina Episcopalian
Robert Morris Pennsylvania Episcopalian
Gouverneur Morris Pennsylvania Episcopalian
John Rutledge South Carolina Episcopalian
Charles Cotesworth Pinckney South Carolina Episcopalian
Charles Pinckney South Carolina Episcopalian
Pierce Butler South Carolina Episcopalian
George Washington Virginia Episcopalian
Benjamin Franklin Pennsylvania Episcopalian (Deist)
William Blount North Carolina Episcopalian; Presbyterian
James Wilson Pennsylvania Episcopalian; Presbyteran
Rufus King Massachusetts Episcopalian; Congregationalist
Jacob Broom Delaware Lutheran
William Few Georgia Methodist
Richard Bassett Delaware Methodist
Gunning Bedford Jr. Delaware Presbyterian
James McHenry Maryland Presbyterian
William Livingston New Jersey Presbyterian
William Paterson New Jersey Presbyterian
Hugh Williamson North Carolina Presbyterian
Jared Ingersoll Pennsylvania Presbyterian
Alexander Hamilton New York Huguenot; Presbyterian; Episcopalian
Jonathan Dayton New Jersey Presbyterian; Episcopalian
John Blair Virginia Presbyterian; Episcopalian
John Dickinson Delaware Quaker; Episcopalian
George Clymer Pennsylvania Quaker; Episcopalian
Thomas Mifflin Pennsylvania Quaker; Lutheran


Name of Non-Signing Delegate State Religious Affiliation
Oliver Ellsworth Connecticut Congregationalist
Caleb Strong Massachusetts Congregationalist
John Lansing, Jr. New York Dutch Reformed
Robert Yates New York Dutch Reformed
William Houstoun Georgia Episcopalian
William Leigh Pierce Georgia Episcopalian
Luther Martin Maryland Episcopalian
John F. Mercer Maryland Episcopalian
Elbridge Gerry Massachusetts Episcopalian
George Mason Virginia Episcopalian
Edmund J. Randolph Virginia Episcopalian
George Wythe Virginia Episcopalian
James McClurg Virginia Presbyterian
William C. Houston New Jersey Presbyterian
William R. Davie North Carolina Presbyterian
Alexander Martin North Carolina Presbyterian


Source: http://www.adherents.com/gov/Founding_Fathers_Religion.html

I'll say one thing, and one thing only. For you to come onto this forum and try to affirm that the nation that our ancestors gave their blood for what was completely the opposite of what they were fighting for is an insult to this nation, to my family relatives who have fought in wars and were ready to give their life to fight against what you're trying to affirm, and all of the fellow patriots on this forum. Our country was NOT founded on a Christian basis, is NOT Vatican City nor will it ever be, so please take your religion and impose it on someone else, because in the words of our founders, go back to Britain if you want to try to re-write history and change what this country was founded upon.

 

[Deborah K]

So does Chrisitianity not include the Old Testament? The Old Testament doesn't count?

So where are these Young Earth creationists getting their info from?

As I stated, Christianity was born out of Judaism, Christ was a Jew. In studying the books of the Bible and their origins, one has to bear in mind that they span thousands of years. The bible is a collection of writings that were assembled and then re-assembled. There are many books that were deliberately not included which are very interesting reading.

 

[Deborah K]

The 400 virgins captured above prove to be insufficient, so the Benjaminites hide in the vineyards and kidnap "the daughters of Shiloh" as they come out to dance and celebrate

Wow, I thought that I had a strong "drive"

ROFL!!

 

[Deborah K]

The side of limited government. Shes coming in from a Conservative Christian background, drawn by limited government and lower taxes. She probably had to overcome the war issue and is still learning. I think we should regard each other as works in progress, ya know? I came from this camp to some degree as well.

Others have come from the left side, these are typified by the Kucinich supporters we have attracted. The anti-war draws them, but they have to learn how social programs are not really beneficial to end poverty, etc. Its a learning curve for all of us.

I just want to make sure this doesn't become like the hannity forums, institutionalized bickering. Points have been made, and she has backed off her original assertions.

Lets not be pricks about it, i guess is what im saying.

Actually, I've been against the war from the beginning, but you're right about the conservative part, I lean libertarian/conservative. The Christians on this forum would probably beg to differ with you as to whether I am a real Christian.

What do you mean about my backing off my original assertions? I have done nothing of the sort.

 

[Deborah K]

I'll say one thing, and one thing only. For you to come onto this forum and try to affirm that the nation that our ancestors gave their blood for what was completely the opposite of what they were fighting for is an insult to this nation, to my family relatives who have fought in wars and were ready to give their life to fight against what you're trying to affirm, and all of the fellow patriots on this forum. Our country was NOT founded on a Christian basis, is NOT Vatican City nor will it ever be, so please take your religion and impose it on someone else, because in the words of our founders, go back to Britain if you want to try to re-write history and change what this country was founded upon.

It's curious how offended you are. I've produced well-founded research to back up my argument and you have produced an angry opinion based on nothing. Do not attempt to put words in my mouth (so to speak) by referring to the Vatican, etc. - what bunk! If you even read what I wrote you would know that I practice no religion.

For the love of God, can anyone debate an issue and produce facts to back up their stance? These are the people I would like to debate with, not people who resort to slinging insults because they feel threatened by an opinion that doesn't fit in with their misguided version of history.

 

[Theocrat]

What's Your Evidence to the Contrary?

I'll say one thing, and one thing only. For you to come onto this forum and try to affirm that the nation that our ancestors gave their blood for what was completely the opposite of what they were fighting for is an insult to this nation, to my family relatives who have fought in wars and were ready to give their life to fight against what you're trying to affirm, and all of the fellow patriots on this forum. Our country was NOT founded on a Christian basis, is NOT Vatican City nor will it ever be, so please take your religion and impose it on someone else, because in the words of our founders, go back to Britain if you want to try to re-write history and change what this country was founded upon.

What is your proof of this, Patriot123? Deborah K just gave you ample evidence to support her claim that America's Founders were Christian-oriented, but all you've done is stated your opinion that the contrary of what she's provided is true, based on your own feelings that her information is an "insult" to our nation and she's "imposing" her religion on you. I'm not trying to attack you, but I'm just making an observation based on what I've just read from you. If Deborah K is lying, give us the evidence to support your claim. Thank you.

 

[New Governor Of Alaska]

The United States: A Country founded on Paganism
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=126821

 

[Theocrat]

"Church in the U.S. Capitol"

The United States: A Country founded on Paganism
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=126821

Here is an article which might give you a different perspective on your notion that America was founded on paganism.

Click here.

 

[kyleAF]

Was America founded on Judeo-Christian Principles? Of Course it was!

We are incredibly fortunate that the founders didn't carry it through to its logical conclusion.

Was America founded on Judeo-Christian Principles? Of Course it was!

So was the third Reich... "Wrapped in a flag and carrying a cross" and all of that.

Difference? We kept our sanity... and our Constitutional Republic kept those who would impose religion in check.

Let's keep it that way.