Was America founded on Judeo-Christian Principles? Of Course it was!

[GBurr]

I'm an evangelical and I have to agree with your critics. I quote socialists all the time. Does that make a socialist?

Our founders had a very poor view of organized religion. I'm not saying they are atheists or that they didn't value many of the same things as Christians and Jews. As far as designing a Judeo/Cristian State no way. Jefferson and Madison were very clear about separating church and state as if a wall was between them. I laugh when Christians say that the separation of church and state was to keep government out of religion not religion out of government. If you allow church to mingle with government then government will mingle with church. Jefferson and Madison both made that very clear. Since Jefferson and Madison were the primary authors of the governments principles I'm going to have to say that the government is in no way a Judeo/Christian government.

I do believe that this nation has many Judeo/Christian values because of the high number of Jews and Christians. This could be interpreted to mean that we are a Judeo/Christian nation, however in no way was the government supposed to be Judeo/Christian.

 

[BeFranklin]

I'm an evangelical and I have to agree with your critics. I quote socialists all the time. Does that make a socialist?

Our founders had a very poor view of organized religion. I'm not saying they are atheists or that they didn't value many of the same things as Christians and Jews. As far as designing a Judeo/Cristian State no way. Jefferson and Madison were very clear about separating church and state as if a wall was between them. I laugh when Christians say that the separation of church and state was to keep government out of religion not religion out of government. If you allow church to mingle with government then government will mingle with church. Jefferson and Madison both made that very clear. Since Jefferson and Madison were the primary authors of the governments principles I'm going to have to say that the government is in no way a Judeo/Christian government.

Outside tense noted.

Proverbs 3:34 Surely [The LORD] scorneth the scorners (mockers): but he giveth grace unto the lowly.

Jefferson wasn't clear at all about "a wall of separation", because he didn't come up with the term. It was from the famous sermons of Roger Williams, noted baptist, and yes it was to keep government out of using force to establish state religons.

Jefferson, for one, is responsible for several laws in Virgina quoting straight from the bible, ie sabbath worship and marriage laws, and instituted worship services in the capitol buildings. There were also, fyi, very few Jews in america at that time, so claiming there was a high number of them is also another inaccuracy in your post. The nation was Christian.

 

[tonesforjonesbones]

Exactly befranklin...i'm not going to share ...nope. It WAS a christian nation...but there was freedom of religion. Some folks just don't cotton to those facts. tones

 

[Original_Intent]

And Ben Franklin, everyone's favorite Deist, called for prayer in the Constitutional convention - a very strange request coming from probably the most renowned Deist of the time (at least according to the history revisionists).

There was never meant to be a national religion. (There is now, it is called secular humanism)

There was never meant to be federal laws regarding an establishment of religion.

There is no separation of church and state in the Constitution. The only "wall" is a directive to CONGRESS to make no law regarding an establishment of religion.

"We have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion. Avarice, ambition, revenge, or gallantry, would break the strongest cords of our Constitution as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other."

— John Adams, October 11, 1798

Not only do the Americans follow their religion from interest, but they often place in this world the interest that makes them follow it. In the Middle Ages the clergy spoke of nothing but a future state; they hardly cared to prove that a sincere Christian may be a happy man here below. But the American preachers are constantly referring to the earth, and it is only with great difficulty that they can divert their attention from it. To touch their congregations, they always show them how favorable religious opinions are to freedom and public tranquillity; and it is often difficult to ascertain from their discourses whether the principal object of religion is to procure eternal felicity in the other world or prosperity in this.

-Alexis de Tocqueville, Religion in America

 

[BlackTerrel]

Does it matter? I'm a Christian and I really don't care what the founders believed? You can be any religion you want as long as you don't infringe on my rights to follow mine.

 

[BlackTerrel]

Please see the whole article here: http://www.realjewnews.com/?p=159

realjewnews.com?

Even Harvard University knows they control America: http://www.jewwatch.com/jew-83-page-report-AIPAC-controls-USA.pdf

jewwatch.com is run by a notorious white supremacist. Why are you on these websites. Perhaps you need to get a life and stop blaming Jews for all the worlds ills?

 

[BlackTerrel]

The founders were all Christians, but the country was founded on FREEDOM above and beyond everything else.

Freedom for who?

 

[JeNNiF00F00]

Freedom for who?

Touche!

 

[Brooklyn Red Leg]

Ah Christ almighty. Haven't we beaten each other to death enough times over this issue? Who gives a flying fuck what the Founders personally believed as far as religious philosophy? This thread should be moved to the Hot Topics forum and out of General Politics. Could one of the mods please do so as its going to only cause more discord.

 

[Deborah K]

I'm an evangelical and I have to agree with your critics. I quote socialists all the time. Does that make a socialist?

Our founders had a very poor view of organized religion. I'm not saying they are atheists or that they didn't value many of the same things as Christians and Jews. As far as designing a Judeo/Cristian State no way. Jefferson and Madison were very clear about separating church and state as if a wall was between them. I laugh when Christians say that the separation of church and state was to keep government out of religion not religion out of government. If you allow church to mingle with government then government will mingle with church. Jefferson and Madison both made that very clear. Since Jefferson and Madison were the primary authors of the governments principles I'm going to have to say that the government is in no way a Judeo/Christian government.

I do believe that this nation has many Judeo/Christian values because of the high number of Jews and Christians. This could be interpreted to mean that we are a Judeo/Christian nation, however in no way was the government supposed to be Judeo/Christian.

Yet another example of someone who has misinterpreted my point. For your review:

Was America founded on Judeo-Christian Principles? Of Course it was! READ the question! It does NOT say that the founders wanted a "Judeo-Christian State" (your words). It does NOT say the founders wanted a "Judeo/Christian government". (Again, YOUR words, not mine) It states that America was founded on Judeo-Christian PRINCIPLES. And then I go on to back up my claim with facts.

Now can we at least start from that premise instead of an erroneous one?

 

[Deborah K]

Ah Christ almighty. Haven't we beaten each other to death enough times over this issue? Who gives a flying fuck what the Founders personally believed as far as religious philosophy? This thread should be moved to the Hot Topics forum and out of General Politics. Could one of the mods please do so as its going to only cause more discord.

Again, only people like you want this thread relegated to Hot Topics where non-members can't see it. This is about dispelling the ridiculous account that our founders were all deists and atheists, a lie being perpetuated by social engineers. This is a very important discussion that needs to be had. I appreciate very much that the mods and admins understand this, even if you don't.

 

[revolutionman]

people who argue that America was founded on christian principals usually use that as a launchpad for attacking homosexuals and the religious freedoms of non christian people.

otherwise whether or not Christian values inspired Classical Liberal philosophy is irrelevant.

In America, at least in Governmental capacities, the bible is no more important than the dictionary, and Jesus is no more relevant than Bugs Bunny.

The only reason to tie Christianity into the founding is simply to alienate nonchristians.

America is a Republic governed by law. Not a theocratic state beholden to ancient fables and child molesting clerics. If thats what you want then feel free to go to Iran or Saudi Arabia, because if you think a Christian State run by the book and a bunch of tight ass preachers will be any better you got another thing coming.

I'm more than happy to call many a Christian my brother, and my family is very much Catholic, but to use your faith and its historical role in the founding of this country to attack some, and alienate others, is hateful. And hateful people are the one sort that I'd rather not consort with.

 

[Kraig]

Why even say "it was founded on christian principles" what does that even mean? That makes people think that it is all based on the Bible. Why not say "it was found by men, many of them being Christian, who believed in separation of Church and state". That is a much more accurate description, and less confusing or offending to people.

 

[Deborah K]

people who argue that America was founded on christian principals usually use that as a launchpad for attacking homosexuals and the religious freedoms of non christian people. otherwise whether or not Christian values inspired Classical Liberal philosophy is irrelevant.

Not in my case. Again, the point of the thread was to dispell the Orwellian objective to revise history on this matter.

The only reason to tie Christianity into the founding is simply to alienate nonchristians.

Then why all the history revision? Do you deny that over the past decade and a half more and more people believe the founders were deists and atheists? I contend your statement is fallacious, it's really the other way around.

 

[Deborah K]

Why even say "it was founded on christian principles" what does that even mean? That makes people think that it is all based on the Bible. Why not say "it was found by men, many of them being Christian, who believed in separation of Church and state". That is a much more accurate description, and less confusing or offending to people.

Oh so you want me to be politically correct? Like that's ever gonna happen. It is what it is. Maybe you should be asking yourself why it is that you feel so threatened by it.

 

[revolutionman]

Christians can historicize Jesus Christ, but when people try to paint the founding fathers as men who embraced secular law over spiritual doctrine suddenly its revisionist history.

 

[Kraig]

Oh so you want me to be politically correct? Like that's ever gonna happen. It is what it is. Maybe you should be asking yourself why it is that you feel so threatened by it.

I don't feel threatened by it but I can understand why some people would. I don't think a limited republic that is based on three separate branches that are supposed to check and balance each other could be considered "judeo christian principles", so I don't think it is very accurate either.

 

[LibertyEagle]

I'm more than happy to call many a Christian my brother, and my family is very much Catholic, but to use your faith and its historical role in the founding of this country to attack some, and alienate others, is hateful. And hateful people are the one sort that I'd rather not consort with.

Why are you thinking that accurately stating the historical fact that this country was founded on Christian principles, somehow causes what you mentioned? I truly don't get it.

If some use their faith (or lack thereof) to attack others, it's wrong. Seems pretty simple to me.

 

[LibertyEagle]

Christians can historicize Jesus Christ, but when people try to paint the founding fathers as men who embraced secular law over spiritual doctrine suddenly its revisionist history.

Because IT IS.

 

[TonySutton]

It disheartens me that we can invest 477 replies to a thread which does absolutely nothing to advance the cause of Liberty.