(War on Women) NYC: 10 hours of Harassment or Compliments?

[pessimist]

An Alpha male isn't the same thing as a meathead, chest-thumping jock.

Well, then we have a different perception. I have the image of the ripped dudes in tribal tattoos who walk around in "I do alpha male shit" t-shirts, or the frat boy douche smashing beer bottles over his head, or Brock Lesnar.

I've always thought an 'alpha' was a man trying to exert his dominance over weaker men as part of some mating ritual.

A man of good looks, confidence, and high status is going to get a more favorable reaction from women than Joe Average

duh! Any man with high status is going to get a more favorable reaction from women than the average Joe. Any good looking guy is going to get a more favorable reaction on first glance. What is your point?

or the nicest, funniest, smartest, man alive if he acts weak in front of the woman (of course, even Betas get women, but they have to date down).

This is absurd. You are are VASTLY underestimating the power of personality. I am not sure what you mean by "acting weak" but many of these smart, funny dudes have sociopathic wit and charm, who know how to 'turn women on'. I have no idea what you're talking about here.

An ugly, glib, car salesman type well versed in the art of persuasion can get laid pretty much any time he wants to by manipulating and conning dumb women. Is he alpha?

Don't listen to what women say; watch what they do. But again, the Alpha isn't supposed to be what you envision it to be.

Yeah, I must have a different view of the "alpha male", but GOOD LOOKS has nothing to do with alpha or beta. There are a shit load of pretty boys who don't "do alpha male shit" or are even particularly masculine, but they can get laid any time they want because they're "hot".

Wow! Women like hot guys, like men like hot women? Who would have thought?

 

[chudrockz]

The video is an example to make a point. There are plenty of examples where a woman has done what you described and they block her way or get overly aggressive. No harm in a campaign for civility and decorum.

Does not say allot about the men in today's culture that have no issue with scaring the crap out of women with this kind of behavior.

When I was in college and partying frequently, I'd be walking around campus or small town and often there would be a woman walking near me. Since I'm large and (to some, I guess) kind of angry/ scary looking (!), I almost always attempted to converse at least briefly, with something like "hi, how are you tonight? I know I'm a giant, and if I make you nervous I would be happy to walk fifty feet in front of you, or stand still and let you be on your way." I had no desire to scare anyone. Several times at parties though I DID scare guys who I thought were acting badly toward women.

 

[jonhowe]

No, but that's implying that there was something wrong with what the man did that he needed consent for. Consent doesn't even enter into the equation because he didn't need consent.

So... why mention implied consent when no consent is needed, implied or expressed?

Again, you're being dense if you think they guy was 'just walking down the street'.

 

[TheTexan]

You know what I really hate? Is women bugging me all the time for computer help just because they know I work in IT.

Make them stop. I should make a video.

They actually do get kind of aggressive with their begging sometimes. A couple times they've even broke down in tears. Made me really uncomfortable.

 

[chudrockz]

And that just totally reminded me of a metal concert I was at once. There was a really cute young girl crowd surfing near me who was also topless. No one really seemed to object. I know I didn't. But there was one guy who was nearby who REPEATEDLY kept reaching up and totally overtly groping her boobs. She was obviously annoyed by it and kept batting his hands down. After about the third or fourth time he did it, I pushed my way over to him and said something very much like "Hey dude, if you don't stop grabbing at her she is going to put her shirt on. If you make her mad enough to put her shirt back on, I'm GOING to stomp your fucking face." He left.

 

[PaulConventionWV]

Again, you're being dense if you think they guy was 'just walking down the street'.

Was he doing something else that I didn't see?

Again, if she wanted him to stop, she should have said something like any normal woman would. He was probably curious as to why she wasn't saying anything.

 

[Rothbardian Girl]

No, but that's implying that there was something wrong with what the man did that he needed consent for. Consent doesn't even enter into the equation because he didn't need consent.

So... why mention implied consent when no consent is needed, implied or expressed?

presence was the one who brought it up when he implied that because the woman didn't tell the man to knock it off, she was consenting to the behavior (she "wanted" him to keep doing it, using presence's word choice). This is just like when people argue that democracy is legitimate because people implicitly consent to be bound by it when they are born, or the good old "social contract" argument. Basically, lack of response does not imply consent in these contexts.

 

[TheTexan]

Again, you're being dense if you think they guy was 'just walking down the street'.

The guy was probably just playing a game with her because she was clearly and obviously playing a game with them.

 

[presence]

The woman holds up a set of scales, presuming to weigh up life, as if existence is at her dictation. In the scales, life is measured quantitatively rather than qualitatively, a false reckoning over innate recognition of its value. The woman stands "above" the skull, apparently taking precedence over, and neglecting, the individual's former agency. Amid her sumptuous garb, she reduces the skull purely to an inanimate object, rather than a relic that once housed a unique seat of reason and emotion, conscience and insight. Equally, though, for all the woman's treatment of the skull as a mere footnote to her beauty, she also portrays it in the most conspicuous and negative light. She reflects it in the mirror, showing us the skull from different angles. The woman advertises the fact of death, and does so with a purse-lipped, almost arrogant sincerity. She presents the skull as if indicting death, as though mortality were a vice to see embarrassed, even shamed.


The positioning of the skull atop the folio reduces what was once the place of that faculty which enabled perception and registered experience to links purely with theory and hypothesis. The textual may feed the imagination and offer salient instruction, but, here, the woman, in her colour-rich attire, takes centre stage while that other "subject" is aligned to the scholarly but not the pragmatic, the inspirational but not the aesthetic. Vanity cajoles us into exclusively visual considerations, motioning the eye to her appearance rather than the curious pathos of that Other "character".

http://wwwsamcaneblogspotcom.blogspot.com/2011/12/transience-of-life-two-canvases-from.html

 

[PaulConventionWV]

You are choosing to be ignorant when you say things like this. It makes giving a serious reply impossible.

Carry on.

Oh, right. I forgot that I was always supposed to assume the worst.

Carry on.

 

[PaulConventionWV]

And that just totally reminded me of a metal concert I was at once. There was a really cute young girl crowd surfing near me who was also topless. No one really seemed to object. I know I didn't. But there was one guy who was nearby who REPEATEDLY kept reaching up and totally overtly groping her boobs. She was obviously annoyed by it and kept batting his hands down. After about the third or fourth time he did it, I pushed my way over to him and said something very much like "Hey dude, if you don't stop grabbing at her she is going to put her shirt on. If you make her mad enough to put her shirt back on, I'm GOING to stomp your fucking face." He left.

You're cool.

You remind me a lot of my cousin, who is a big, tattooed fellow but the nicest guy you'll ever meet.

 

[jonhowe]

Was he doing something else that I didn't see?

Clearly.

 

[Rothbardian Girl]

http://wwwsamcaneblogspotcom.blogspot.com/2011/12/transience-of-life-two-canvases-from.html

Please reserve your spammy nonsense for your own topics. I would be more than willing to bet no one here is actually going to read your post. At least you didn't use your obnoxious center-justified format this time.

 

[PaulConventionWV]

presence was the one who brought it up when he implied that because the woman didn't tell the man to knock it off, she was consenting to the behavior (she "wanted" him to keep doing it, using presence's word choice). This is just like when people argue that democracy is legitimate because people implicitly consent to be bound by it when they are born, or the good old "social contract" argument. Basically, lack of response does not imply consent in these contexts.

You're still not getting it. This is nothing like the implied consent to government oppression. The man needed no consent whatsoever to walk there, implied or not. None. Zero. Zippo.

The reason presence said that she wanted him to do it was because she made a video about it with an obvious agenda. I actually came to the same conclusion, believe it or not.

 

[PaulConventionWV]

Clearly.

Yes... and?

What was he doing? Was he thinking bad thoughts?

I must have missed it because I didn't see it in the video. Maybe if I look really close, I'll be able to see his thoughts.

 

[kahless]

And by "done better", you mean, "shown more violence/creepy behavior."

Well... they walked around for 10 hours and this is what they got. It's tame because the reality is tame, but they're trying to act like it's not.

I have heard the stories, read the accounts of others here and I have witnessed worse first hand. Regardless, it really does not matter since you do not need to show the more creepy behavior to achieve your goal. If you stigmatize the behavior demonstrated in the video it may reduce incidents that escalate from that behavior or worse.

 

[kahless]

When I was in college and partying frequently, I'd be walking around campus or small town and often there would be a woman walking near me. Since I'm large and (to some, I guess) kind of angry/ scary looking (!), I almost always attempted to converse at least briefly, with something like "hi, how are you tonight? I know I'm a giant, and if I make you nervous I would be happy to walk fifty feet in front of you, or stand still and let you be on your way." I had no desire to scare anyone. Several times at parties though I DID scare guys who I thought were acting badly toward women.

There really is no comparison to what you describe to the guy who intentionally followed the girl side by side for 5 minutes.

 

[Rothbardian Girl]

There really is no comparison to what you describe to the guy who intentionally followed the girl side by side for 5 minutes.

He is completely doing the right thing here though, and should be applauded for that. Personally it puts me at ease when men do that. Even brief eye contact and a smile or nod will do enough to show you aren't a threat. This is exactly the sort of thing people discuss when they discuss what men can do to police themselves and others, for those wondering. So... awesome all around.

 

[PaulConventionWV]

I have heard the stories, read the accounts of others here and I have witnessed worse first hand. Regardless, it really does not matter since you do not need to show the more creepy behavior to achieve your goal. If you stigmatize the behavior demonstrated in the video it may reduce incidents that escalate from that behavior or worse.

That's all anecdotal. And I doubt the goal was to stigmatize the behavior. The behavior is already stigmatized. They didn't target the demographic that usually does this and reach out to schools to educate kids on this behavior. They just put it out there to shame men in general for what is inherently a "man problem."

 

[chudrockz]

There really is no comparison to what you describe to the guy who intentionally followed the girl side by side for 5 minutes.

No, of course there isn't. I'm saying that when I was in college and found myself walking near a lone young woman, I did what I could to make her feel like she was NOT in danger. I did the opposite of the guy in the video, in other words.