(War on Women) NYC: 10 hours of Harassment or Compliments?

[Rothbardian Girl]

You're wrong, a lot of women like getting that type of attention. That's just how it is, take it up with them. It may be a minority of women, they may not like EVERY guy cat calling them, but that may be their preferred method of pickup from people who they find attractive because it shows initiative, which is something they find attractive.

Sadly, none of what you just typed contradicts my point. I said that the fact that a woman gives out her phone number doesn't necessarily imply that she enjoyed the interaction. The women you are talking about are a subset of a larger group, but again, this doesn't contradict what I have said. My thoughts on this subset are that although I personally don't know anyone who prefers being catcalled to being interacted with in other situations, I am willing to grant for the sake of argument that they exist, but this sort of preference seems sort of illogical, given that there are far more superior ways of interacting with people who find you attractive (that don't involve potential danger, aren't inherently random and aren't potentially bothersome).

 

[Philhelm]

Nor does giving a phone number, assuming it's not made-up, necessarily mean the woman actually approved of being catcalled - I've given my number out plenty of times and then ignored any texts or calls (not to catcallers, but in analogous situations). This isn't "mixed signals," this is how to get rid of someone bothersome literally without coming off as "too mean" for a woman (see, even I feel the pressure to act based on stereotypes!).

Actually, this seems more like something a jerk would do, male or female.

 

[Philhelm]

gay guys can be considered Alpha males....

This is true, although obviously there is a different dynamic in the mating ritual.

 

[Brian4Liberty]

Thanks! I seriously LOLed on that one.

 

[jmdrake]

Again, you can't just assume that women like it because it works. If a woman gives in as a defense mechanism, that most certainly doesn't mean she likes the tactic. Nor does giving a phone number, assuming it's not made-up, necessarily mean the woman actually approved of being catcalled - I've given my number out plenty of times and then ignored any texts or calls (not to catcallers, but in analogous situations). This isn't "mixed signals," this is how to get rid of someone bothersome literally without coming off as "too mean" for a woman (see, even I feel the pressure to act based on stereotypes!). There's also the completely separate issue of some men drastically misreading intentions in the first place. The fact remains that catcalling specifically has a really low success rate.

By "working" I mean guys end up sleeping with their targets. It might not work all the time, but it works enough of the time for guys to keep trying it. You aren't every woman and you don't know what every woman likes or doesn't like. Again think "Nigerian emails". There's no way in hell that scam should have ever worked let alone still work. And yet....people still fall for it. Here's a homeless guy making cat calls work for him.



Now maybe it's all fake and all these women were actors. Then again...maybe not.

 

[dannno]

Sadly, none of what you just typed contradicts my point. I said that the fact that a woman gives out her phone number doesn't necessarily imply that she enjoyed the interaction. The women you are talking about are a subset of a larger group, but again, this doesn't contradict what I have said. My thoughts on this subset are that although I personally don't know anyone who prefers being catcalled to being interacted with in other situations, I am willing to grant for the sake of argument that they exist, but this sort of preference seems sort of illogical, given that there are far more superior ways of interacting with people who find you attractive (that don't involve potential danger, aren't inherently random and aren't potentially bothersome).

I said the fact that a woman gives her phone number out is not what I equate to 'success'. Success would be a cat call, followed by a civil conversation, that leads to sex whether a phone number is exchanged or not.

Cat calling in itself is not dangerous, and I don't really care if people are 'bothered' by things, just do what you can to avoid them as best you can. People will always bother other people, and men have the right to talk to women randomly if they want. I think people that judge them for hitting on women that they perceive as more attractive and thus 'above them' are superficial.

 

[Rothbardian Girl]

Actually, this seems more like something a jerk would do, male or female.

It may be jerky behavior, but it's passive jerky behavior and has the effect of putting off any negative reactions until later. The short-term consequences of refusing to give a phone number out (awkwardness at best, violence at worst) are much more severe to me than not being around to witness someone's disappointment at my lack of further contact. I will say, while I'm in a confessional mood, that I think I can sometimes be an awkward person and so I'm hyper-sensitive to anything that would make me seem weird, such as refusing to give out a number even if I did enjoy any conversation leading up to the request. I chat most of the time to be friendly, not because I'm looking for anything else from that interaction.

 

[Brian4Liberty]

In fact if you are very attractive (I wouldn't put this actress in the very attractive category), most decent men aren't going to hit on you even if you want them to, and even if the situation is "appropriate".

Very good point. Some people in this thread have claimed that the woman in the video was not really even attractive. That's the point. She was more accessible, more in their league. And from all indications, she had a big booty in tight pants. IIRC, some studies have shown that to be a magnet for that kind of attention, especially if the face isn't super-model.

I was at a tech conference one time where some idiot had hired two models as his "booth bunnies". Far too attractive. Some other booth had a cute, but more average girl with a friendly disposition. Guess which booth had nearly zero people, and which one had a constant crowd?

LOL. As a black man living in Tennessee right after Obama got elected I had white people coming up to me and giving me high fives and saying "We did it!" Not sure what that's supposed to mean.

Did you respond with "What? Did Ron Paul win?!"

 

[Deborah K]

By "working" I mean guys end up sleeping with their targets. It might not work all the time, but it works enough of the time for guys to keep trying it. You aren't every woman and you don't know what every woman likes or doesn't like. Again think "Nigerian emails". There's no way in hell that scam should have ever worked let alone still work. And yet....people still fall for it. Here's a homeless guy making cat calls work for him.



Now maybe it's all fake and all these women were actors. Then again...maybe not.

He's an addict. That's really sad.

 

[jmdrake]

Very good point. Some people in this thread have claimed that the woman in the video was not really even attractive. That's the point. She was more accessible, more in their league. And from all indications, she had a big booty in tight pants. IIRC, some studies have shown that to be a magnet for that kind of attention, especially if the face isn't super-model.

I was at a tech conference one time where some idiot had hired two models as his "booth bunnies". Far too attractive. Some other booth had a cute, but more average girl with a friendly disposition. Guess which booth had nearly zero people, and which one had a constant crowd?

Yeah. The one time I went to COMDEX I actually tried to talk to a couple of "booth bunnies" about their products. They were clueless. Oh well.

Did you respond with "What? Did Ron Paul win?!"

LOL. I wish I'd thought of that. Maybe if Rand Paul wins I'll go to the liberal part of town, walk around and hive five white people and say "We did it!"

 

[jmdrake]

He's an addict. That's really sad.

Yeah. Homelessness is sad all around whatever the reason.

 

[PaulConventionWV]

Sadly, none of what you just typed contradicts my point. I said that the fact that a woman gives out her phone number doesn't necessarily imply that she enjoyed the interaction. The women you are talking about are a subset of a larger group, but again, this doesn't contradict what I have said. My thoughts on this subset are that although I personally don't know anyone who prefers being catcalled to being interacted with in other situations, I am willing to grant for the sake of argument that they exist, but this sort of preference seems sort of illogical, given that there are far more superior ways of interacting with people who find you attractive (that don't involve potential danger, aren't inherently random and aren't potentially bothersome).

You know, some people actually believe in love at first sight, and cat-calling is really just an extension of that. While it can often be jerkish and rude behavior (construction workers doing it just for kicks), sometimes people just feel the need to catch up with someone and learn more about them before they're lost forever in the endless throng of faces.

 

[PaulConventionWV]

Yeah. The one time I went to COMDEX I actually tried to talk to a couple of "booth bunnies" about their products. They were clueless. Oh well.




LOL. I wish I'd thought of that. Maybe if Rand Paul wins I'll go to the liberal part of town, walk around and hive five white people and say "We did it!"

Lol. They'll say, "What? Did Hillary win?"

 

[pessimist]

You are describing assholes.

Many embody the "alpha male" archetype.

Granted, sometimes assholes can be alpha, but that isn't a requirement.

Most dudes who fancy themselves as "alpha males" likely scare the living shit out the average woman. Women are generally not impressed with two roided out freaks smashing each other in the face, or rolling on the ground half naked. Typically that violent homoerotic imagery tends to be way more impressive to men.

It is MEN who tend to be drawn to the alpha male types. It is men who admire the 'physically powerful' male, and often judge other men's bodies.

Those types do get laid a lot though, but they tend to draw low class women; the porn stars, the "aspiring actresses", the women with low self-esteems and low intelligence.

Also, a man does not need to have high physical strength or good looks in order to be alpha, since it's primarily mental, although those traits can certainly help

With all due respect, your constant referring to "good looking, Alpha male studs" and your "intelligent, smart, funny guys are totally beta" seemed to imply something else. It seemed like you were focused more on the physical and primal rather than the mental.

I think it's more of a case in which men who are physically imposing, or are attractive and used to being validated by women's acceptance, naturally tend to be more confident.

I definitely agree that they tend to be more 'confident' but don't you think some of these physically imposing alpha studs can sometimes scare off women, thus having the opposite effect? You know, not all women are impressed by large dominate men. We are not in the jungle anymore.

Also, women want to be dominated (please note: not abused)

You lost me here.

In fact, women constantly test men in order to ensure their fitness as a leader, protector, and provider.

Well, my ex wanted to be the leader and we shared the financial responsibilities, but I guess I was kind of the 'protector'. Anyway, I don't know how accurate this is outside of tribal communities, but I do understand what you're implying here.

This is why women sometimes act like spoiled children or creat conflict seemingly out of nowhere. Failure to pass these tests often results in a dead bedroom situation and/or divorce. A woman does not want to wear the pants.

You know, from my observation, a lot of failed marriages occur because of incompatible personalities. The man is unable to meet the emotional needs/stimulation that his wife requires, and she disregards his physical needs.The results? Infidelity, divorce, and unhappy marriages.

 

[juleswin]

To the person who gave me a -rep and a very aggressive message, I think you just harassed me. Which professional victim campaigner would take up my cause? I seriously cannot live any longer having to deal with first world problem such as this.


Please this is not me trying to get sympathy reps, the -repper rep power only made a slight dent to my overall rating.

 

[Carlybee]

http://cheezburger.com/65728513

10 hours of walking in New York as a man

 

[Philhelm]

Most dudes who fancy themselves as "alpha males" likely scare the living shit out the average woman. Women are generally not impressed with two roided out freaks smashing each other in the face, or rolling on the ground half naked. Typically that violent homoerotic imagery tends to be way more impressive to men.

Again, you are describing assholes that may or may not be alpha. Judging from your comments and given the two pictures you posted earlier, we are definitely not on the same page. Sure, a gym rat that goes around calling people "brah" could possibly be alpha, but a lack of muscles does not preclude an alpha mindset.

It is MEN who tend to be drawn to the alpha male types. It is men who admire the 'physically powerful' male, and often judge other men's bodies. Those types do get laid a lot though, but they tend to draw low class women; the porn stars, the "aspiring actresses", the women with low self-esteems and low intelligence.

Okay, we're still not on the same page. But even your examples would be more succesful than a limp-wristed Starbucks patron with thick-rimmed glasses and high sensitivity.

With all due respect, your constant referring to "good looking, Alpha male studs" and your "intelligent, smart, funny guys are totally beta" seemed to imply something else. It seemed like you were focused more on the physical and primal rather than the mental.

First, I never stated that being intelligent, smart, or funny are Beta traits. In fact, the most capable Alphas would be highly intelligent. My point is that these traits alone won't get the dripping wet panties dropping; after all, there are plenty of smart and funny men that have bad luck with the ladies. Regarding the physical attributes, being handsome and well-built are Alpha traits, but all men have a combination of Alpha/Beta traits; being handsome and muscular alone does not make a man alpha. They are simply bonuses, although they can sometimes be enough to get laid.

I definitely agree that they tend to be more 'confident' but don't you think some of these physically imposing alpha studs can sometimes scare off women, thus having the opposite effect? You know, not all women are impressed by large dominate men. We are not in the jungle anymore.

This would depend on circumstance and the man's interaction. If a hugely built guy were to follow a woman in a parking lot at midnight without saying a word, then she would probably be a bit scared. But if the same man were to approach her at a party and start gaming her with confidence, her panties might get moist.

You lost me here.

Women want to be dominated. They want the man to lead. In fact, my wife point-blank tells me this sometimes when we discuss something as simple as where we want to go to eat. It took me awhile to realize that she wants me to just decide something and let me lead the way. If a woman is with a man that can't take the lead she loses confidence in him; she may take the lead out of necessity, but she does not want to be in that position. Bossy women are bossy because they think they have to be, since the men that should be leading are weak.

Well, my ex wanted to be the leader and we shared the financial responsibilities, but I guess I was kind of the 'protector'. Anyway, I don't know how accurate this is outside of tribal communities, but I do understand what you're implying here.

Regarding "tribal communities," sexual desire is primal, despite the so-called sophistication of Western society. A woman will intellectually decide to date/marry a Beta if he can be a good provider, but she isn't going to have the same sexual passion with him that she would otherwise have with an Alpah male. I guarantee that your ex did not want to be the leader. In fact, you had stated in another thread that you consider yourself to have feminine traits, so I imagine that you failed to take the lead forcing her to take the reigns. It's no surprise that she is your ex. If you shared financial responsibilies but weren't designated as the leader, you were likely playing the "Beta Bucks" role.

You know, from my observation, a lot of failed marriages occur because of incompatible personalities. The man is unable to meet the emotional needs/stimulation that his wife requires, and she disregards his physical needs.The results? Infidelity, divorce, and unhappy marriages.

Ding! Ding! Ding! Even Alphas can fall into a Beta role. Women will get bored of the man if he can no longer prove that he is the leader, or if he is unable to stimulate her sexual desires. Women are far more likely to leave a marriage than a man (although part of that is due to divorce rape). Being Beta simply does not make a woman's vagina tingle with desire.

 

[pessimist]

Again, you are describing assholes that may or may not be alpha. Judging from your comments and given the two pictures you posted earlier, we are definitely not on the same page. Sure, a gym rat that goes around calling people "brah" could possibly be alpha, but a lack of muscles does not preclude an alpha mindset.

Okay, I obviously have a completely different image in mind, but most of the guys who are self-proclaimed alphas tend to fit that description.

Would you consider a tall good looking guy with a high IQ, who cried during the Notebook, likes romantic dinners, walks on the beach, and cooks his wife breakfast every morning to be alpha?

Okay, we're still not on the same page. But even your examples would be more succesful than a limp-wristed Starbucks patron with thick-rimmed glasses and high sensitivity.

It depends on the type of woman. The nerdy Starbucks patron just might be a Harvard grad with a big bank account, and a well developed sense of humor who can relate to women. In that example, I don't think HE would want the women that would be attracted to the aforementioned "alpha's."

Sex as a conquest usually doesn't interest those types anyway.

First, I never stated that being intelligent, smart, or funny are Beta traits.

Well, you certainly were giving off that impression.

My point is that these traits alone won't get the dripping wet panties dropping;

A hot guy can get a chicks "panties wet" the moment he walks into a room. What the hell does 'alpha' or 'beta' have to do with anything?

after all, there are plenty of smart and funny men that have bad luck with the ladies.

Agreed. But this is true of every type of man out there. A smart and funny guy who is sensitive and listens and communicates will probably be more appealing than the loudmouth, beer-guzzling bro with a roofie in his pocket.

Good looking, physically fit guys can probably get laid at will, but can they all hold a relationship?

Is Bill Gates an alpha in your opinion?

Ding! Ding! Ding! Even Alphas can fall into a Beta role. Women will get bored of the man if he can no longer prove that he is the leader, or if he is unable to stimulate her sexual desires. Women are far more likely to leave a marriage than a man (although part of that is due to divorce rape). Being Beta simply does not make a woman's vagina tingle with desire.

I am not talking about HER sexual needs. I am talking her EMOTIONAL needs. Many wives feel lonely and neglected; there is no communication or mental stimulation or excitement.

So they look elsewhere to get it or lash out at their husbands in other ways to express their frustration. Women are generally more subtle.

Men, unable to adequately provide those type of needs, are rejected from their physical ones (sex) from their wives.

 

[Philhelm]

Okay, I obviously have a completely different image in mind, but most of the guys who are self-proclaimed alphas tend to fit that description.

A real Alpha won't go around talking about how Alpha he is.

Would you consider a tall good looking guy with a high IQ, who cried during the Notebook, likes romantic dinners, walk on the beaches, and cooks his wife breakfast every morning to be alpha?

If he acts as an emotional tampon for his woman, then he probably leans toward Beta, although as stated before, men can have traits from both spectrums. Also, when it comes to long-term relationships it's actually bad to be too Alpha all the time.

It depends on the type of woman. The nerdy Starbuck patron just might be a Harvard grad, with a big bank account, and a well-developed sense of humor who can relate to women. In that example, I don't think HE would want the women that would be attracted to the aforementioned "alpha's."

Alpha Fucks/Beta Bucks. Money can attract women to commit to a relationship, but it doesn't get their vaginas tingling. This is where the stereotype of the doctor's wife having an affair with the pool buy comes into the picture.

Sex as a conquest usually doesn't interest those types anyway.

Sex is sex; the "conquest" element is somewhat irrelevant.

A hot guy can get a chicks "panties wet" the moment he walks into a room. What the hell does 'alpha' or 'beta' have to do with anything?

Well sure, but once he opens his mouth and comes across as weak, then he will lose estimation. Remember, even Betas can and do get laid, it's just that the Beta traits limit the number/quality of women that are obtainable. The hot, confident man will be much, much more successful than the hot, unconfident man. Even if the hot unconfident man can make it into the sack with the woman, he will have a hard time keeping her interest for a long-term relationship.

Agreed. But this is true of every type of man out there. A smart and funny guy who is sensitive and listens and communicates will probably be more appealing that the loud-mouth, beer-guzzling bro with a roofie in his pocket.

Dammit man, Alpha doesn't mean loud-mouthed, beer-guzzling bro with a roofie in his pocket. For example, a Liam Neeson character would be a good example of a non-asshole Alpha, since his characters tend to be confident and have a fatherly authoritative aura, but he does not run around crushing beers on his head.

Good looking, physically fit guys can probably get laid at will, but can they all hold a relationship?

They can hold a relationship if they aren't doormats.

Is Bill Gates an alpha in your opinion?

I've read that his real personality is much different from the geek persona that most people think of him. He supposedly fostered competition and was pretty ruthless, so he may very well be an Alpha.

I am not talking about HER sexual needs. I am talking her EMOTIONAL needs. Many wives feel lonely and neglected; there is no communication or mental stimulation or excitement.

If a woman is simply neglected, even from an Alpha, she won't be happy. An alpha needs to be able to stimulate the woman emotionally, but can't become too sensitive lest he loses respect.[/quote]

 

[pessimist]

If he acts as an emotional tampon for his woman, then he probably leans toward Beta, although as stated before, men can have traits from both spectrums. Also, when it comes to long-term relationships it's actually bad to be too Alpha all the time.

If you observe long lasting relationships (I am talking 30+ years here)- you will notice that those couples have developed into an almost brother-sister type of relationship. Hell, many of them even start to look alike. They are so comfortable and content and familiar with each other that they have no desire to seek stimulation elsewhere.

This has nothing to do with 'alpha' or 'beta' or any of that nonsense, it has to do with compatibility. The fact is, a lot people discover that they were just in a relationship or married to the wrong person.

Alpha Fucks/Beta Bucks. Money can attract women to commit to a relationship, but it doesn't get their vaginas tingling. This is where the stereotype of the doctor's wife having an affair with the pool buy comes into the picture.

So what? If the "beta" guy is in a content relationship, and his wife or girlfriend have great chemistry and conversation and connect on an intimate level- who gives a fuck is she is turned on by hot guys? That is human nature. Hot and sexy people tend to kick the hormones into gear.

That doesn't mean she is going to cheat on him.

Sex is sex; the "conquest" element is somewhat irrelevant.

Sex with intimacy is vastly different from banging some drunk chick in back of your car and bragging to your friends about it.

Well sure, but once he opens his mouth and comes across as weak, then he will lose estimation. Remember, even Betas can and do get laid, it's just that the Beta traits limit the number/quality of women that are obtainable. The hot, confident man will be much, much more successful than the hot, unconfident man. Even if the hot unconfident man can make it into the sack with the woman, he will have a hard time keeping her interest for a long-term relationship.

I think relationships are more about compatibility than anything else. I can't buy into this alpha/beta stuff.

If a woman wants to be "dominated", she'll seek out the guy that will "dominate" her. If a woman wants a partner, she'll seek out a partner, etc. Same goes for the men. We just have a different perception of humanity and relationships.