Wage Strikes Planned at Fast-Food Outlets

Ahhhh, college boy libertarians. The bane of my existence. Let me guess, you got into Ron Paul because he was anti war and pro pot but never actually registered GOP to vote for him, right? Just did some sign waving? The truth is that CaptLou's fundamental truth IS correct (apart from those so oppressed by governments that they were not able to rise above it. That does not exist here). The harder you work in this world, the more successful you will be. Your vitriolic ranting against that point is comical and shows you really have some growing up to do.

you are 21, you told me in your neg rep. when you were in 3rd grade, I was pushing Libertarianism at county fairs. As in talking to thousands, (<<not hyperbole, I personally talked to thousands of people, I used to have a huge "world's smallest quiz" with thousands of stickers on it to prove it) and registering them to vote. So your guess is wrong. You'll learn, I know you will... or you will live a life of privilege and think you earned it.

I'd like to see if you are so cock sure when you are 42, lived another 21 years of life as an adult, and finding out the world and life rarely works out like a wide eyed 21 year old thinks it will, and that many times all hard work gets is just enough to get you by, but not enough to get ahead. Especially in the new normal.
 
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I'm 18. Is there even going to be any wealth when I'm 75? I'll be very, very pleasantly surprised if our government hasn't entirely annihilated the concept.

No Fiat Currency can hold its value. But its Value is only a measure that YOU place on it. That means the value doesnt come from the Govt Decree, it comes from YOU because YOU have Value. Your skills have value. What you create, what you produce, what you repair, thats Value. When you create something, you create your own Wealth. And Fiat is the means by which they transfer the real things of real value, your real Wealth from you to them, with this Debt Based Debt Backed War and Petro Fiat Dollar.

Gold glitters. Its what you buy with it that counts.
 
Hurting your bottom line for the day. So what? That's not theft and not my problem.

Assuming I work for you and I go on strike I am depriving your business of my labor, a valuable part of your businesses' service. Why? Because I believe I deserve/need a wage raise-- that you wouldn't give me, because that was not your problem. You have two options, give me a raise and I will stop striking or fire me.

But you stated originally, "I believe if someone is pursuing their own self-interest and does not hurt anyone else than their actions are moral."

I replied with that someone is being hurt by their actions, therefore the act of walking off the job for a day, while they may have a "right" to do so, it is not right to do so. Someone is being hurt by their actions. So, if we use the most basic principle of morality saying that as long as no one else is hurt by another's actions then the action is moral, then the act of striking is not moral since it does indeed hurt another.

When you take a job you enter into an agreement with the employer. You agree to provide labor in exchange for a wage. If at some point you feel that the wage is not sufficient you have the option of sitting down with the employer and negotiating. However, not showing up for work when scheduled is a violation of that agreement and causes harm to the employer. Which again is why I stated that although he has a "right" to walk off the job, doing so is not a right (i.e. moral) act since it is a violation of the agreement and causes harm to the employer.
 
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I'm 18. Is there even going to be any wealth when I'm 75? I'll be very, very pleasantly surprised if our government hasn't entirely annihilated the concept.

Yes, there should be. As someone else stated, there were wealthy people even in the USSR. But, all speculation aside, you have choices to make at this stage of life. You can choose to pursue accumulating wealth, or you can choose a path where you live just to or beyond your means like so many others do. If I were you, I would spend as much time as possible earning money, live way below my means, and then save up that money to either purchase or create an entity that will generate income for myself. Keep repeating the process and in a few years you could have total economic security.
 
Yes, I am 21 and guess what? I work more than 40 hours a week. I have done everything in my power to put myself in a position to succeed. There is nothing "wide eyed" about the notion that merit is the way to advance in this world. Once you cut through all the BS and excuses that's where we are left.

you are 21, you told me in your neg rep. when you were in 3rd grade, I was pushing Libertarianism at county fairs. As in talking to thousands, (<<not hyperbole, I personally talked to thousands of people, I used to have a huge "world's smallest quiz" with thousands of stickers on it to prove it) and registering them to vote. So your guess is wrong. You'll learn, I know you will... or you will live a life of privilege and think you earned it.

I'd like to see if you are so cock sure when you are 42, lived another 21 years of life as an adult, and finding out the world and life rarely works out like a wide eyed 21 year old thinks it will, and that many times all hard work gets is just enough to get you by, but not enough to get ahead. Especially in the new normal.
 
Yes, I am 21 and guess what? I work more than 40 hours a week. I have done everything in my power to put myself in a position to succeed. There is nothing "wide eyed" about the notion that merit is the way to advance in this world. Once you cut through all the BS and excuses that's where we are left.
LoL

You are "in a position to succeed".

You got it all figured out, don'cha?

Bright eyed, bushy tailed, 21, and ready to take on the world! Life to you is a dashing, bold adventure. You're gonna grab life by the horns and not take no for an answer. You path is figured, and your plans will be manifest. It is all coming together. Soon the delusions of grandeur will become the fruits of success, and you, will make it, because you work a little bit of overtime. Oh, and you are unique in your generation, because most people in your generation are too lazy to work overtime! You are special, aren't you? Kids your age just don't understand like you that the key to success is simply working overtime!

Wait until you have done 21 years of real life, not 3, before you start preaching the keys to success.
 
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Somebody sounds a little bitter. Hb, this guy needs a hug.

A lot of people are. Just look at the OP example.

Truth is, people are in the situation they are in because of their own choices. But instead of placing blame on themselves, they blame everything else. Liberals blame the employers, libertarians blame the system, etc.

Again going back to the OP example. 23 years old, working for 9 bucks an hour flipping burgers. Now, granted he did go out and get some skills training for the pharmacy tech thing, but he is still griping that he can't come up with the 100 bucks to get his license. So he wants to strike for better wages. He is in essence blaming his employer for his lack of earnings.

But how many 23 year-olds are there out there making substantially more money? Lots of them. By 23 you could have a Masters Degree, medical training, a trade, years of experience in the same industry, etc. Simon made choices in his life that resulted in being 23 years old and earning 9 bucks an hour. Someone else made choices that resulted in them earning 5 times that per hour.

And then you have the aspect of what people do with their money once they earn it. Some live to their means, some below and some above. Basically, in the end, if you are poor, or if you are struggling to get by you have no one to blame other than yourself. You made the choices in life that put you in the career you are in. You made the choices in life that put you in a position of being one paycheck away from homelessness. Are there exceptions? Of course. But in general, people have no one to blame other than themselves.
 
If I were you, I would spend as much time as possible earning money, live way below my means, and then save up that money to either purchase or create an entity that will generate income for myself. Keep repeating the process and in a few years you could have total economic security.
Don't forget to live below your means, and buy an old clunker.
Of course you want to buy your house, not rent, (you know, so you can generate revenue for yourself)
Don't get sick or hurt or a disease.
Make sure the job you take will be the only job you have, so you can show the stability to get a loan to buy your house.
Don't buy with loaned money, as interest costs money, so buy everything with cash
and don't let real life get in the way of your plans.
Don't let your old clunker break down.
Don't let your roommates lose their jobs. (if you are living below your means, you will have roommates).
It is all so simple, people are just too lazy and greedy!!
 
Don't forget to live below your means, and buy an old clunker.
Of course you want to buy your house, not rent, (you know, so you can generate revenue for yourself)
Don't get sick or hurt or a disease.
Make sure the job you take will be the only job you have, so you can show the stability to get a loan to buy your house.
Don't buy with loaned money, as interest costs money, so buy everything with cash
and don't let real life get in the way of your plans.
Don't let your old clunker break down.
Don't let your roommates lose their jobs. (if you are living below your means, you will have roommates).
It is all so simple, people are just too lazy and greedy!!

Yep; exactly. This is The Millionaire Next Door mentality. Nothing wrong with that, but many Americans mistakenly think that this is how true wealth works. True wealth is a totally different ballgame.
 
"You know Marge, that Bart of ours is a little miracle. His winning smile, his button nose, his fat little stomach, his face alight with wholesome mischief. He reminds me of me, before the weight of the world crushed my spirit." - Homer Simpson.


Heh heh. :D
 
Don't forget to live below your means, and buy an old clunker.

It is more cost effective to buy a reliable used car than a clunker. 2 or 3 years old, let someone else eat the depreciation.


Of course you want to buy your house, not rent, (you know, so you can generate revenue for yourself)

One's own home is an expense not an asset. In some cases, it is actually preferable to rent because your maintenance expenses are lower. Owning your own home is preferable solely because you can do with that home what you choose, rather than being limited in your ability to renovate, expand, etc.

Don't get sick or hurt or a disease.

Obviously this is impossible to predict. Which is why it is important for people to have secondary and tertiary sources of income that are not labor dependent.

Make sure the job you take will be the only job you have, so you can show the stability to get a loan to buy your house.

Stability is a good thing to show if one is applying for credit. However, one can have multiple jobs, but you do want the primary job to show stability. So you are correct here.

Don't buy with loaned money, as interest costs money, so buy everything with cash

Loans are fine provided that the money being borrowed results in the ability to purchase an asset that generates revenue. For example taking a mortgage on a rental property producing $1000 in rent, but the mortgage payment is $700 per month. While it is preferable to not have any debt, there are some instances where taking on debt is reasonable.

and don't let real life get in the way of your plans.

See my answer to getting sick or hurt, the same applies.

Don't let your old clunker break down.

Which is why you shouldn't buy an old clunker. Additionally, having secondary and tertiary sources of income allows one to have enough money coming in to deal with expenses as they arise. This along with proper budgeting should address any issues with unexpected expenses.

Don't let your roommates lose their jobs. (if you are living below your means, you will have roommates).

Roommates are not a necessity. In fact, I advise against it for the reason you stated. There are plenty of affordable apartments out there. If it turns out that one's income is not sufficient to afford one, then they have the choice to work additional hours, secure skills to earn more money and/or relocate.

It is all so simple, people are just too lazy and greedy!!

Granted you are being sarcastic, but this is the one thing you said that makes any sense. In large part, people want possessions but are unwilling to work to obtain these possessions. Or, as soon as they earn enough money, they spend it. One can have more possessions than they could ever dream of, but they need to deny themselves in the short term, so they can enjoy life in the long term.
 
Don't forget to live below your means, and buy an old clunker.
Of course you want to buy your house, not rent, (you know, so you can generate revenue for yourself)
Don't get sick or hurt or a disease.
Make sure the job you take will be the only job you have, so you can show the stability to get a loan to buy your house.
Don't buy with loaned money, as interest costs money, so buy everything with cash
and don't let real life get in the way of your plans.
Don't let your old clunker break down.
Don't let your roommates lose their jobs. (if you are living below your means, you will have roommates).
It is all so simple, people are just too lazy and greedy!!

 
LoL, I'm the bitter sounding one? Listen to you old men cluck your tongues!!

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LoL

You are "in a position to succeed".

You got it all figured out, don'cha?

Bright eyed, bushy tailed, 21, and ready to take on the world! Life to you is a dashing, bold adventure. You're gonna grab life by the horns and not take no for an answer. You path is figured, and your plans will be manifest. It is all coming together. Soon the delusions of grandeur will become the fruits of success, and you, will make it, because you work a little bit of overtime. Oh, and you are unique in your generation, because most people in your generation are too lazy to work overtime! You are special, aren't you? Kids your age just don't understand like you that the key to success is simply working overtime!

Wait until you have done 21 years of real life, not 3, before you start preaching the keys to success.

Most people in our generation ARE too lazy to work over time.


What do you want this guy to do, give up? What's your problem with hard work done by anyone other than yourself?
 
But you stated originally, "I believe if someone is pursuing their own self-interest and does not hurt anyone else than their actions are moral."

I replied with that someone is being hurt by their actions, therefore the act of walking off the job for a day, while they may have a "right" to do so, it is not right to do so. Someone is being hurt by their actions. So, if we use the most basic principle of morality saying that as long as no one else is hurt by another's actions then the action is moral, then the act of striking is not moral since it does indeed hurt another.
No I don't believe breaking a voluntary agreement and not showing up for work is immoral, yeah I consider it poor etiquette and in a free market you would have every right to tell other people about how lousy of an employee I was.

By your same definition of "hurt" it would be equally reasonable to switch this around and say that an employer is "hurting" an employee when they underpay them for the productivity their job is creating.

When you take a job you enter into an agreement with the employer. You agree to provide labor in exchange for a wage. If at some point you feel that the wage is not sufficient you have the option of sitting down with the employer and negotiating. However, not showing up for work when scheduled is a violation of that agreement and causes harm to the employer. Which again is why I stated that although he has a "right" to walk off the job, doing so is not a right (i.e. moral) act since it is a violation of the agreement and causes harm to the employer.

Strikes are a form of negotiation and would serve a legitimate purpose in a free market.
 
Don't forget to live below your means, and buy an old clunker.
Of course you want to buy your house, not rent, (you know, so you can generate revenue for yourself)
Don't get sick or hurt or a disease.
Make sure the job you take will be the only job you have, so you can show the stability to get a loan to buy your house.
Don't buy with loaned money, as interest costs money, so buy everything with cash
and don't let real life get in the way of your plans.
Don't let your old clunker break down.
Don't let your roommates lose their jobs. (if you are living below your means, you will have roommates).
It is all so simple, people are just too lazy and greedy!!

It sounds like, through your sarcasm, the damning point you are trying to make is that "life has risks".
What a revelation! I thought I could just hit snooze!
 
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