Wage Strikes Planned at Fast-Food Outlets

By your same definition of "hurt" it would be equally reasonable to switch this around and say that an employer is "hurting" an employee when they underpay them for the productivity their job is creating.

I disagree. If an employer and employee reach and agreement for X dollars per hour for their labor, they are only being underpaid if the employer pays them less than the agreed upon amount.

Strikes are a form of negotiation and would serve a legitimate purpose in a free market.

I agree with strikes, only in the instance where the employer is not honoring the agreed upon labor "contract". Otherwise, those who walk out on their jobs should be fired.
 
I am in a position to succeed, and it is because I work hard and invest wisely. I agree with Origanalist, you sound bitter. People need to quit making excuses and man up. There's not nearly enough gumption in today's society. If you bust your ass at your job and work as hard as you can you WILL be able to live comfortably in this country (apart from the mentally retarded, severely handicapped, etc). Anyone who disagrees is making excuses.

LoL

You are "in a position to succeed".

You got it all figured out, don'cha?

Bright eyed, bushy tailed, 21, and ready to take on the world! Life to you is a dashing, bold adventure. You're gonna grab life by the horns and not take no for an answer. You path is figured, and your plans will be manifest. It is all coming together. Soon the delusions of grandeur will become the fruits of success, and you, will make it, because you work a little bit of overtime. Oh, and you are unique in your generation, because most people in your generation are too lazy to work overtime! You are special, aren't you? Kids your age just don't understand like you that the key to success is simply working overtime!

Wait until you have done 21 years of real life, not 3, before you start preaching the keys to success.
 
Again going back to the OP example. 23 years old, working for 9 bucks an hour flipping burgers. Now, granted he did go out and get some skills training for the pharmacy tech thing, but he is still griping that he can't come up with the 100 bucks to get his license.

Something else that seems off about this is this: most workplaces develop into a quasi-family atmosphere. He's surrounded (presumably) by people who not only work with him, but care about him and want to see him "escape" to something better. Anywhere I've worked, there's been someone who would step in and help me better myself. In this instance, it would figure that someone would either loan him the $100, take up a collection for the $100, or even simply give him the $100.
 
Two more things:

Someone should send Simon this link: http://losangeles.craigslist.org/jjj/

Also, every pharmacy in LA should be on alert for this guy's application. It's already known that he will walk off the job if he doesn't like his pay, therefore he shouldn't be hired by anyone wanting a quality employee.

Or even better he can open his own pharmacy and pay everyone what they think they should be paid.
 
Something else that seems off about this is this: most workplaces develop into a quasi-family atmosphere. He's surrounded (presumably) by people who not only work with him, but care about him and want to see him "escape" to something better. Anywhere I've worked, there's been someone who would step in and help me better myself. In this instance, it would figure that someone would either loan him the $100, take up a collection for the $100, or even simply give him the $100.

Yeah I know what you mean. Something isn't right about that. $1000 maybe so, but $100 is nothing. Again it goes back to the mentality we are dealing with here: "I need $100, so instead of going out cutting lawns for the cash, I'll walk off the only job I have because I feel they don't pay me enough". Bullshit
 
Yeah I know what you mean. Something isn't right about that. $1000 maybe so, but $100 is nothing. Again it goes back to the mentality we are dealing with here: "I need $100, so instead of going out cutting lawns for the cash, I'll walk off the only job I have because I feel they don't pay me enough". Bullshit


Exactly. I would not expect them to buy him a house or even a car. (Although my husband and I each had a car gifted to us back in those days, and I know several people who have gifted cars to people who needed them, too. But those were white collar workers, not McDonald's employees.)

But $100 bucks? $10 from everyone who works there. Heck, make it $15 and throw a party for him too!
 
Something else that seems off about this is this: most workplaces develop into a quasi-family atmosphere. He's surrounded (presumably) by people who not only work with him, but care about him and want to see him "escape" to something better. Anywhere I've worked, there's been someone who would step in and help me better myself. In this instance, it would figure that someone would either loan him the $100, take up a collection for the $100, or even simply give him the $100.


Fast food workers with $100 to throw around. Another zany fantasy.
I am in a position to succeed, and it is because I work hard and invest wisely.

Yup. you got it all figured out at 21. We'll see how you fare after you live some real life, and not nest flying fantasies of grandeur.
 
I disagree. If an employer and employee reach and agreement for X dollars per hour for their labor, they are only being underpaid if the employer pays them less than the agreed upon amount.

Are the contracts signed in blood? They are for life? From then on, the employer gets to make all the rules because of a contract? I've never seen that in the fine print of any document I ever worked at... ....have you?



I agree with strikes, only in the instance where the employer is not honoring the agreed upon labor "contract". Otherwise, those who walk out on their jobs should be fired.

What if firing them means the employer loses everything?
Maybe the employer should consider the risks of not giving a raise, before his worker decides to show him he has undervalued an employee.
 
Who cares? What was the last minimum wage strike that actually lead to higher wages? The way to go about it is to vote in politicians that will force the companies to pay a higher minimum wage or not be able to do business. You'd think these young pikers would know that by now.
What I would guess everyone would know by now ( and evidently do not ) , is that you can make it as dumbass high gubmit required as anyone would like and then , it will only mean less jobs for those who need them most etc....
 
Most people in our generation ARE too lazy to work over time.

Just... plain... bullshit.

It sounds like, through your sarcasm, the damning point you are trying to make is that "life has risks".

Risks are more severe for the poor. A rich man risks losing his BMW, and having to drive a Prius, if he fails, a poor man risks having to live on the streets if he fails. Therefore, the poor are more averse to risk, and will tend to stay in a shit job, out of fear of losing everything.
captObvious said:
It is more cost effective to buy a reliable used car than a clunker. 2 or 3 years old, let someone else eat the depreciation.

Oh shit! It's that easy for someone on minimum wage to buy a 2009 model sedan?! You really do have the world figured out! It's not that min wage workers can't afford fairly new $15,000 cars, it's that they are too stupid to buy them, and buy $1,500 clunkers.

Obviously this is impossible to predict. Which is why it is important for people to have secondary and tertiary sources of income that are not labor dependent.

I love how once again you write something so stupid in such haughty, intellectual language. Those damn min wage workers need to be investing in securities and local business ventures, perhaps even be doing angel investing and real estate... ..on $8.02 an hour.

LoL


Which is why you shouldn't buy an old clunker. Additionally, having secondary and tertiary sources of income allows one to have enough money coming in to deal with expenses as they arise. This along with proper budgeting should address any issues with unexpected expenses.

No, actually, it is better to have at least half a million dollars tucked away in a savings account accruing interest safely. Ponies are nice too, as are lear jets. If your car breaks down, you can then just fly to work. But definitely be sure to always have at least half a million tucked away. Thing is, poor people never learn these habits to financial success, and therefore are caught in a cycle of poverty.

Roommates are not a necessity. In fact, I advise against it for the reason you stated. There are plenty of affordable apartments out there. If it turns out that one's income is not sufficient to afford one, then they have the choice to work additional hours, secure skills to earn more money and/or relocate.
So to you, paying full rent all the time, is better than sharing rent and risking having to pay full rent sometimes?
Oh, and in Seattle, good luck finding an apartment you could live in alone at 8.02 an hour.

In large part, people want possessions but are unwilling to work to obtain these possessions. Or, as soon as they earn enough money, they spend it. One can have more possessions than they could ever dream of, but they need to deny themselves in the short term, so they can enjoy life in the long term.

While this is true for some people, it is not true for all people, not by a long shot.
And we haven't even talked about people with families yet.
 
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Any Bad Mother can demand whatever the hell they wish , lol , if they get it , more power to them. All I have to say about this is I only demand Liberty . Under that , things will work out as they should .....
 
Any Bad Mother can demand whatever the hell they wish , lol , if they get it , more power to them. All I have to say about this is I only demand Liberty . Under that , things will work out as they should .....

Govt thinks highly of themselves because they "grant wishes".

I wish this person didnt have the right to do this. Wish Granted.

I wish that person didnt have the right to do that. Wish Granted.

I wish I had my Liberty and Freedom back. Sorry, someone else already wished that all away.
 
Risks are more severe for the poor. A rich man risks losing his BMW, and having to drive a Prius, if he fails, a poor man risks having to live on the streets if he fails. Therefore, the poor are more averse to risk, and will tend to stay in a shit job, out of fear of losing everything.

Risks are equal for those who are poor (earning little money from their labor) and those who are rich (earning a lot of money for their labor), since most people spend to the level of their income - both of these people are essentially broke There are millions of people who are one check away from financial disaster at every income level. he difference though that I have been speaking of is between the broke and the wealthy (i.e. those who have passive income).


Oh shit! It's that easy for someone on minimum wage to buy a 2009 model sedan?! You really do have the world figured out! It's not that min wage workers can't afford fairly new $15,000 cars, it's that they are too stupid to buy them, and buy $1,500 clunkers.

Low end cars, like a Ford Focus for example, go for less than $10000 with relatively low mileage and only a few years old. Even at minimum wage, one can save up the money to buy a car like that in less than a year if they are willing to work extra hours, and scrimp and save.


I love how once again you write something so stupid in such haughty, intellectual language. Those damn min wage workers need to be investing in securities and local business ventures, perhaps even be doing angel investing and real estate... ..on $8.02 an hour.

Again, it all depends on one's willingness to work. There are many businesses that can be started with very little money and can provide secondary income. My niece works full time as a paralegal and in her spare time makes handcrafted jewelry and sells it on Etsy. She doesn't make a fortune doing so, but the profit margins are very high, and it is a nice start for her working towards financial security. And here's the thing - she doesn't spend the money she earns from her business; she is saving it up so that she can invest that money into other ventures.

So to you, paying full rent all the time, is better than sharing rent and risking having to pay full rent sometimes?
Oh, and in Seattle, good luck finding an apartment you could live in alone at 8.02 an hour.

Yes, it is. The risk is greater than the reward. As far as Seattle, while it is an expensive city, I did manage to find inexpensive rentals on Craigslist. However, if one cannot manage to work and pay rent in that city, then perhaps relocation is in order, or simply work a second or third job. It is not an option for everyone, but options are there.

While this is true for some people, it is not true for all people, not by a long shot.
And we haven't even talked about people with families yet.

With few exceptions people are in the economic situation they are in because of choices they have made in their life. Now, I am not sure at 42 years old if you make 20 grand a year or 200 grand, but whichever one it is, the reason if because of your choices. If you are on the lower end of the income scale, or are living paycheck to paycheck you have no one to blame other than yourself for your situation.

The same goes for the example in the OP, and for that matter every other minimum wage worker. They are in a low paying job because of their own choices. At 23 years old the OP example is flipping burgers for 9 bucks an hour. At 23 years old there are also those employed as nurses, engineers, accountants, plumbers, mechanics, barbers, etc all making far more than 9 bucks an hour. Heck, I have a 17 year old granddaughter that waitresses at a diner and makes more than 9 bucks an hour. At 23 years old the OP example doesn't have $100 saved up to pay for a license. What has he been doing for the past 7 years with his money? There are people at 23 years old who are well on their way to financial independence, because of the choices they made.

We have a work ethic and skills deficit in this country, unlike we have ever seen before. Just look at the number of adult men working in low wage jobs like retail stores, etc. Are these men victims of the economy, or are they victims of their own decisions? It's the latter, since I think you would have to search far and wide to find a 42 year old man with a Masters degree in engineering and an investment portfolio working as a WalMart greeter.

So if you are stuck flipping burgers for 9 bucks an hour - don't blame your employer and walk out on the job. Blame yourself and do something about it. At 23 years old, this guy is working a job typically reserved for teenagers and those looking for extra income. But he is trying to survive on this job. Silly - and his own fucking fault.
 
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Mr. Rojas said he had studied for a pharmacy technician’s certificate, but he had been unable to save the $100 needed to apply for a license.

LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL

Give me a break. This is bullshit on either Mr. Rojas' part or the jouranlists'.

If he really can't figure out how scrounge up $100 in a one-shot way to be able to make his certificate a reality in terms of producing its expected income earning ability, then he probably shouldn't be working in a setting that gives people life-or-death drugs anyway.

How much did the studying for the certificate cost? Surely more than $100. I mean really, spend thousands of dollars on a certificate, and oh man, now I don't have $100 left to get the license, damn, guess I'll forget about it.

If he was serious, he would make it happen.

Perhaps he just realizes that the job market is so tough for his pharmacy certificate that he wouldn't be able to get a job anyway, especially considering that people with bachelors of science in Pharmacy can't find a job either and that's who he's going to be competing against. In this case, he is right in not paying the $100 for a lost cause. But also in this case, he shouldn't be masquerading as a would-be pharmacy tech if that's not actually what he's trying to do anymore.

By the way Mr. Rojas if you're reading this, you're welcome. Send me a PM if you need any more advice (and I'll gladly give much more).
 
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We have a work ethic and skills deficit in this country, unlike we have ever seen before. Just look at the number of adult men working in low wage jobs like retail stores, etc. Are these men victims of the economy, or are they victims of their own decisions? It's the latter, since I think you would have to search far and wide to find a 42 year old man with a Masters degree in engineering and an investment portfolio working as a WalMart greeter.

So if you are stuck flipping burgers for 9 bucks an hour - don't blame your employer and walk out on the job. Blame yourself and do something about it. At 23 years old, this guy is working a job typically reserved for teenagers and those looking for extra income. But he is trying to survive on this job. Silly - and his own fucking fault.

Yeah, 25 years ago I lived in a crappy cheap apartment in a questionable neighborhood while I was going to school. There was a guy that lived across the street from me who was mentally disabled. He was functional, but talking to him it was apparent that he rode the little bus to school back in the day.

He lost his job, so he took his lawnmower and started driving around knocking on doors where the lawn was overgrown asking to cut their grass. After a few months, he had bunch of regular customers. One of them owned some commercial property, and hired him to cut those too.

Another customer was a supervisor for the neighboring city's beach maintenance program. He asked my friend to apply for a job cleaning the beaches at night. Which he did, and got. That money alone was enough for him to live on, but he didn't quit mowing lawns.

He did stop by a golf course to ask if they needed any help with their lawns. Of course, their lawn guy was a college grad who specialized in golf course, a little out of my friends league. But he saw the residential grade mower my friend was using, and ended up hiring him to come in once a week to maintain their equipment. He did that for a year or so, then decided 3 jobs were too much so he quit.

After a couple of months, they called and offered him quite a bit to come back, because his replacement had managed to ruin up 2 expensive pieces of equipment. So he went back.

Last I heard, he hired some guys to cut the lawns for him, but he still went out on weekends looking for new customers.
 
Risks are equal for those who are poor (earning little money from their labor) and those who are rich (earning a lot of money for their labor), since most people spend to the level of their income - both of these people are essentially broke There are millions of people who are one check away from financial disaster at every income level. he difference though that I have been speaking of is between the broke and the wealthy (i.e. those who have passive income).

No, you missed the point. financial disaster to a rich man is having to live a bit less comfortably. To a poor man, it is potentially begging on the streets, and never being able to bounce back. That is the difference. It is not the same at all.

Yes, it is. The risk is greater than the reward.

You talk in the language of economics, but the logic is still fail. Just because you say the risk is greater than the reward, and use part of an economic law, does not mean the situation applies to the law. The risk is not greater than the reward. The risk is only having to cover a roomie for 2 or 3 months, max, until you find a new, one, while the rewards is paying perhaps as low as 1/3rd the rent you would have every month.

As far as Seattle, while it is an expensive city, I did manage to find inexpensive rentals on Craigslist. However, if one cannot manage to work and pay rent in that city, then perhaps relocation is in order, or simply work a second or third job. It is not an option for everyone, but options are there.

At min wage in Seattle, I assure you, you did not find a place for less than half of what a full time min-wage employee would make after taxes. Half your pay for housing is not inexpensive. It may be inexpensive to you.

Relocation? With what money? And once again, it is easier to relocate if there is family elsewhere... ...what if there is no family? What if your family is dead? What if you were a foster child? What if your parents raped you when you were 14 and you had to run away? I've met these people, and talked to them at length about their lives. I know you think everybody should be able to rise above such things... ...and for that, I wish it had happened to you. You would be singing a different tune. Perhaps in the next life you'll get to start out ugly, or hated, or raped, or beaten by an alcoholic, when you are young. Yeah, some people do rise above it all, but who are you to judge those who do not? Do not give me "everybody endures hardships in life"... ...because that is simply false. Some of the people here make me so sick with their assumptions about life and expectations of people to just rise up and beat the world with all the cards stacked against them. I thought my youth was pretty bad, until I met people who had truly fucked up lives and no chances and no lucky breaks. Then I realized I had it good. I, like most of you arrogant posters, wouldn't even be where I am today if it wasn't for family and people around me who cared, and could help me when I was down, and just knowing they were there just in case I did fall. Not everybody has that, and it is not exactly horrible to be poor... ...but it is horrible to be disrespected, and looked down upon, and blamed for situations people have no control over.

I mean, what is with the cold-heartedness? Do you think that makes you appear more logical? Do you think theoretical systems are good because they are systems? Do you not understand that all systems are human devices, and therefore flawed and "corrupt"? I see so many people proud of being cold-hearted, and taking it to lengths, just so they can claim that it is part of some "reality". The only reality is what we make. It doesn't mean you have to feed the homeless, but if you want to solve problems, maybe you should at least try to understand them first, before passing your judgements. I know it makes you feel good to think you are successful, therefore you are smart, and the poor are dumb, but it really isn't true, and it isn't flattering, either.

It is sick to watch the privileged pat themselves on the back, and assure themselves they are simply better people than the working poor, when they are nothing more than more privileged people.

We have a work ethic and skills deficit in this country, unlike we have ever seen before. Just look at the number of adult men working in low wage jobs like retail stores, etc. Are these men victims of the economy, or are they victims of their own decisions?

Economy. Thirty years ago they would be working in a high paying factory job. Those jobs don't exist anymore. A ton of people retiring from the workforce today will never be able to get back in, because previous generations are nothing like the current one when it comes to important work skills in the computer age. A high school degree was enough to get a job one could raise a family on. Try that in today's world. I know, there is still plumber, electrician, etc, those have always been around, what isn't around anymore is factory jobs for all of the rest of the high school only graduates. It has nothing to do with work ethic. Old people calling young people lazy is as old as the hills. Young people are always harder workers. They are young, fresh, physically stronger and heartier, and hornier and hungrier for money. It has always been that way, and there has always been an older generation trying to keep them down and take their labor from them on the cheap. Obamacare is just the newest layer of that.

It's the latter, since I think you would have to search far and wide to find a 42 year old man with a Masters degree in engineering and an investment portfolio working as a WalMart greeter.

I love how you people always bring up engineering. Yeah, its a great degree, and useful, and useful to humanity... ...it is also an incredibly difficult one to get. Your average person can not get one, no matter how driven they are. There are also people with MBA's, who learn nothing but how to be good parasites, skimming as much possible with as little effort as possible. And there is a whole spectrum in between. Look at the enormous bureaucracy, and tell me it isn't true.

So if you are stuck flipping burgers for 9 bucks an hour - don't blame your employer and walk out on the job.

Why not? Flipping burgers, making cars in a factory. It's all the same skill level. Burger flippers could get more, they just need to figure out how to take from the shareholders. There is surely a way, and if the shareholders "have to" pay what the burger flippers demand or go out of business, then that is the fair value of their labor. If the shareholders would rather go out of business, so be it. Go out of business... ..another burger joint will open. It will not be the end of the world. People will still want burgers.
 
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Low end cars, like a Ford Focus for example, go for less than $10000 with relatively low mileage and only a few years old. Even at minimum wage, one can save up the money to buy a car like that in less than a year if they are willing to work extra hours, and scrimp and save.

What if they can't get extra hours? Two jobs can be quite a juggle, especially in areas as fluid as fast food and retail, where schedules change from week to week. And doubly difficult without a car. Can you imagine relying on public transportation to shuttle you between part time jobs? Also, spending 10000 on a Ford doesn't mean you don't get a lemon. And by that I mean, Fords suck ass.

And I would say, at best, one could save up 7000 in a year at $8.02 an hour, full time. It's possible, yes, but 7000 is a hefty risk zone for a car. Better to just risk 3000. If it goes, at least you only lost 3000, not 7000.
 
No, you missed the point. financial disaster to a rich man is having to live a bit less comfortably. To a poor man, it is potentially begging on the streets, and never being able to bounce back. That is the difference. It is not the same at all.

If one has no savings, and no secondary sources of income, financial disaster (eg. losing a job) is equally devastating, since the "rich" person typically has higher expenses each month. When no money comes in either person is screwed.


It is sick to watch the privileged pat themselves on the back, and assure themselves they are simply better people than the working poor, when they are nothing more than more privileged people.

The working poor are poor because they have not obtained the skills and talents to make their labor valuable. It has nothing to do with luck or privilege. You can find numerous examples of people who were born into poverty and rose above it because of their hard work and ingenuity.



Economy. Thirty years ago they would be working in a high paying factory job. Those jobs don't exist anymore.

Wrong. Thirty years ago, an entry level job was still a shit job. Factory workers with no skills and no employment history started out at the bottom. Only if they worked their way up and gained skills did they get those higher paying jobs.


Why not? Flipping burgers, making cars in a factory. It's all the same skill level. Burger flippers could get more, they just need to figure out how to take from the shareholders. There is surely a way, and if the shareholders "have to" pay what the burger flippers demand or go out of business, then that is the fair value of their labor. If the shareholders would rather go out of business, so be it. Go out of business... ..another burger joint will open. It will not be the end of the world. People will still want burgers.

They are not the same skill level. Not even close. Flipping burgers always has paid less than a factory job whether it is today, 30 or 50 years ago. Fast food jobs are not meant to be a career, they never were. And if at 23 years old the best one can do is a part time job in fast food making 9 bucks an hour, they have no one to blame but themselves. Because, as I stated before, there are plenty of 23 year olds who have much better careers. I stated earlier, my 17 year old grandaughter makes more than 9 bucks an hour as a waitress. How is this possible? She started at 15 as a hostess for minimum wage. She was a good employee, showed up on time, etc. The business recognized that she was excellent with customer service and a model employee. At 16, when a waitress position opened up she got it. Now, when she goes off to college next year she'll be bringing with her nearly 3 years experience and a excellent reference that she can then use to secure a waitress job when she is away at school. At 17, my grandaughter is already way ahead of the example in the OP - is she lucky? No, she just did the right things. She made the right choices, and the OP example apparently has not.
 
What if they can't get extra hours? Two jobs can be quite a juggle, especially in areas as fluid as fast food and retail, where schedules change from week to week. And doubly difficult without a car. Can you imagine relying on public transportation to shuttle you between part time jobs? Also, spending 10000 on a Ford doesn't mean you don't get a lemon. And by that I mean, Fords suck ass.

And I would say, at best, one could save up 7000 in a year at $8.02 an hour, full time. It's possible, yes, but 7000 is a hefty risk zone for a car. Better to just risk 3000. If it goes, at least you only lost 3000, not 7000.

Excuses, excuses - that's all I hear from you. You really should be out there selling welfare benefits, you'd be great at it.

You never address the key points here: If someone is 23 years old and the best job they can get is 20 hours a week at 9 bucks an hour flipping burgers - who's fault is that? If someone is 42 years old and they are struggling, living paycheck to paycheck because they cannot earn enough income - who's fault is that?
 
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Excuses, excuses - that's all I hear from you. You really should be out there selling welfare benefits, you'd be great at it.

You never address the key points here: If someone is 23 years old and the best job they can get is 20 hours a week at 9 bucks an hour flipping burgers - who's fault is that? If someone is 42 years old and they are struggling, living paycheck to paycheck because they cannot earn enough income - who's fault is that?

It's no use Capt. Hard work and saving will never get you anywhere. It's best just to force other people to pay you more with the force of government. I'm sure this guys parents must have been born rich to be able to afford to have him live at home.

Or maybe not, maybe they just have the government take other peoples money so they can afford it.
 
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