Voter Fraud Conspiracies

[Sam_Adams]

If they get away with cheating now they'll continue to do it. They're going to "ream" Ron Paul for demanding that votes be counted in America? I think not.

Do you honestly think that they wouldn't continue it anyway (assuming that they convinced a 70 year old woman to lose 31 out of 200,000+ votes in the state).

 

[Thumper]

Some of you in here really should take a break from the computer. Paranoia can be a sign of mania or bipolar disorder.

Whereas denial is just a sign of ignorance...

 

[leglock]

I think we would get more votes if there was a recount, keep in mind other candidates would as well. Nothing leads me to believe that there was a grave mistake from the polls. McCain was obviously going to win it, he kicked Bush's ass in 2000. Romney had spent TONS of money in NH. And Giuliani and Huckabee sadly have the name recognition we don't have.

Would it be worth it? Probably not. The most we're going to get is fourth and third is pretty damn reaching. We have the Michigan battle coming up and I believe we need to focus on that state. I'm suprised there aren't more people visiting that forum, ATM.

As for screaming "fraud"...
Not exactly the best idea, we don't have proof of intent. We have proof of error, however.

 

[Sam_Adams]

Whereas denial is just a sign of ignorance...

Noone is denying that there was a mistake. What we're denying is that a recount would further Ron Paul's campaign. It most assuredly would not further the cause. It is not a sign of ignorance, yet name calling is.

 

[Fight-n-Mad]

Sam, I think the burden of proof is on the system to prove that the count was accurate.

There may or may not have been widespread fraud. But the fact is, a lot of the voting system is just as screwed up as the federal government. The relationship of the voting machine vendors to elections officials, in many cases, are similar to the relationships that politicians have with the contributors/lobbyists/contractors. And it's very common for the elections officials to be extremely resistant to any attempts at oversight or transparency.

There needs to be fire started, and now is as good of a time as any. EVERYONE, no matter who they vote for, should be concerned about this. This isn't just about RP, or a few votes that weren't counted. There's a huge problem, and it's not going to get fixed without widespread outrage.

 

[AzNsOuLjAh27]

For those of you claiming voter fraud, seeing images of Satan in the numbers, etc....

Why would you want to go bitter this early in the campaign?
Why give the press more ammunition to beat us over the head with?

A recount MIGHT move us into 4th place, but that's unlikely. So, do you want the media ABSOLUTELY REAMING Ron Paul for demanding a recount when we were tens of THOUSANDS of votes short of first?

Please, move on. Focus on the issues and spreading the word. Right now, all you're doing is making this campaign look like a bunch of bitter loonies are in the crowd.

Thats a little too obvious. You gotta try a little bit harder next time. We have them red handed and your saying, let it go.

 

[Thumper]

Do you honestly think that they wouldn't continue it anyway (assuming that they convinced a 70 year old woman to lose 31 out of 200,000+ votes in the state).

I can see that you arent going to bother reading any of the information from BlackBoxVoting.org that I posted, or even acknowledge it.

Frankly, you're wasting my time and the time of others with your arguments. Why don't we agree to disagree. That way you and your friends can stop playing "thought police" and we can go back to what we were doing which wasn't bothering anyone until you decided to bother us.

 

[Sam_Adams]

Sam, I think the burden of proof is on the system to prove that the count was accurate.

There may or may not have been widespread fraud. But the fact is, a lot of the voting system is just as screwed up as the federal government. The relationship of the voting machine vendors to elections officials, in many cases, are similar to the relationships that politicians have with the contributors/lobbyists/contractors. And it's very common for the elections officials to be extremely resistant to any attempts at oversight or transparency.

There needs to be fire started, and now is as good of a time as any. EVERYONE, no matter who they vote for, should be concerned about this. This isn't just about RP, or a few votes that weren't counted. There's a huge problem, and it's not going to get fixed without widespread outrage.

Nobody, ESPECIALLY ME, is claiming that the system is not without fraud, mistakes, etc.

I'm merely saying that challenging the vote is not helpful at this point. But apparently I'm not talking to rational folks. Now is NOT the time.

 

[beachmaster]

As for screaming "fraud"...
Not exactly the best idea, we don't have proof of intent. We have proof of error, however.

Usually, proof is given after an investigation, not before. Evidence is given before. I think there is evidence of fraud. Had 21 votes been registered instead of 31, I could see clear typographical type error. But to go from 31 to ZERO... that's evidence (not proof) of fraud.

Besides, we don't need to scream fraud about this one incident. We need transparency. We need to see the source code for the software. We need the public to be able to count the votes, not some hidden personnel in a back room.

We need to know without a doubt that our votes are counted. If I can't be reasonably assured that my vote can not only be counted, but can be re-counted by truly non-biased third parties (not the software company), then I should think twice about bothering to vote.

 

[Sam_Adams]

I can see that you arent going to bother reading any of the information from BlackBoxVoting.org that I posted, or even acknowledge it.

Frankly, you're wasting my time and the time of others with your arguments. Why don't we agree to disagree. That way you and your friends can stop playing "thought police" and we can go back to what we were doing which wasn't bothering anyone until you decided to bother us.

Thought police? I'm not the one hitting the "ignore" button every time I read a post I don't agree with.

Who's wasting time? Calling a volunteer phone bank to demand a recount because of 31 votes?

Please try to see the forest for the trees.

 

[Thumper]

Noone is denying that there was a mistake. What we're denying is that a recount would further Ron Paul's campaign. It most assuredly would not further the cause. It is not a sign of ignorance, yet name calling is.

yes...and your friend morerock calling us maniacs and implying that we're bipolar doesn't qualify as namecalling. thanks for the double standard. if you're going to play the part of the impartial referee, admonish your buddy as well. otherwise it's just hypocracy.

 

[wildflower]

Thought police? I'm not the one hitting the "ignore" button every time I read a post I don't agree with.

Who's wasting time? Calling a volunteer phone bank to demand a recount because of 31 votes?

Please try to see the forest for the trees.

Ok, ok, we got your opinion. You've been repeating it over and over and bumping all these threads to try to stop an investigation.

Got it.

Buh-bye!

 

[Sam_Adams]

Please point out where I've called you a name. morerock, stop calling these people names.

Happy?

 

[Sam_Adams]

Ok, ok, we got your opinion. You've been repeating it over and over and bumping all these threads to try to stop an investigation.

Got it.

Buh-bye!

Who's trying to stop anything?

You want a recount.

Ron Paul campaign: REQUEST DENIED, MOVE THE FUCK ON.

 

[Thumper]

Thought police? I'm not the one hitting the "ignore" button every time I read a post I don't agree with.

Who's wasting time? Calling a volunteer phone bank to demand a recount because of 31 votes?

Please try to see the forest for the trees.

I have neither ignored you, or called the campaign. Stop making assumptions. Stop telling me what to think and what to do and stop trying to make everyone conform to your opinion. You don't have the right to tell anyone here what to do.

 

[Thumper]

Who's trying to stop anything?

You want a recount.

Ron Paul campaign: REQUEST DENIED, MOVE THE FUCK ON.

Ummm...yeah... I don't recall the campaign officially denying any requests and I don't remember anyone making you the campaign spokesman...

Nice language by the way...I'm sure your mother must be proud.

 

[morerocklesstalk]

Please point out where I've called you a name. morerock, stop calling these people names.

Happy?

You never have. I actually like your posts.

Sandra told me that I was a multiple ID of yours. That's just crazy.

 

[Sam_Adams]

Ummm...yeah... I don't recall the campaign officially denying any requests and I don't remember anyone making you the campaign spokesman...

Nice language by the way...I'm sure your mother must be proud.

Ron Paul will not demand a recount no matter how many people call. They won't even officially deny a recount because no one has officially asked for one.

Watch and learn. There will be no statewide recount in NH. It is for the best at this time.

 

[Fight-n-Mad]

I'm merely saying that challenging the vote is not helpful at this point. But apparently I'm not talking to rational folks. Now is NOT the time.

Yeah, well a lot of us have been trying to bring this issue to people's attention for years. Now we have a situation where the system is still broken, and will probably continue to be throughout the primaries.

I will say though, this shouldn't all fall on Ron Paul. The headlines should read, "Voter's Nationwide Denounce Electronic Voting Machines and Demand Transparency".

 

[disciple]

"And verily I say unto you, that whoso hath the light of his eyes clear seeth everything clear, and draweth light even out of darkness itself; but the blind doeth not so."

Jesus of Nazareth