Vets have broken down barricades at Lincoln Memorial and are carrying them to the White House

[phill4paul]

What the hell is with the thread de-rail? It's irrelevant whether or not vets are "heros." What's more important is that more and more people are seeing fascism for what it really is.

R U serious? Lol. It's RPF.

 

[AuH20]

What the hell is with the thread de-rail? It's irrelevant whether or not vets are "heros." What's more important is that more and more people are seeing fascism for what it really is.

I don't think they are heroes. I don't stand or applaud when vets are announced at sporting events I attend. But the other extreme, casting them as remorseless, calculated murderers is downright offensive. Walk in their shoes and then you can cast judgement. Ever been shot at? Ever been threatened with a courtmartial? Probably not.

 

[Dr.3D]

Kids don't understand the concept of having a draft. All the time you are in high school, you are thinking about what happens when you graduate. You know when you get your diploma, there is a very good chance you will then be drafted and sent to the meat grinder. It's not a pleasant thought at all. It sort of takes all of the fun out of your high school days.

Those who haven't been down that road should think before they speak of calling those folks murderers. You get drafted, taken at gunpoint to a foreign country, dropped off with a weapon and told to survive by following orders. If you don't follow the orders, you will be subjected to a court martial. If you don't defend yourself in combat, you will be the one who was "murdered." Doesn't leave much choice does it?

 

[Christian Liberty]

Kids don't understand the concept of having a draft. All the time you are in high school, you are thinking about what happens when you graduate. You know when you get your diploma, there is a very good chance you will then be drafted and sent to the meat grinder. It's not a pleasant thought at all. It sort of takes all of the fun out of your high school days.

Those who haven't been down that road should think before they speak of calling those folks murderers. You get drafted, taken at gunpoint to a foreign country, dropped off with a weapon and told to survive by following orders. If you don't follow the orders, you will be subjected to a court martial. If you don't defend yourself in combat, you will be the one who was "murdered." Doesn't leave much choice does it?

I wouldn't go. I'd either leave the country, go to prison, or stand my ground and force them to kill me. I wouldn't go murder people overseas just because the governing authority told me too. That's WRONG.

What the hell is with the thread de-rail? It's irrelevant whether or not vets are "heros." What's more important is that more and more people are seeing fascism for what it really is.

They aren't objecting to fascism. This isn't a liberty-minded protest at all.

 

[jmdrake]

They aren't objecting to fascism. This isn't a liberty-minded protest at all.

Yeah. Because now you can read everyone's mind.

 

[Cabal]

I don't think they are heroes. I don't stand or applaud when vets are announced at sporting events I attend. But the other extreme, casting them as remorseless, calculated murderers is downright offensive. Walk in their shoes and then you can cast judgement. Ever been shot at? Ever been threatened with a courtmartial? Probably not.

While I agree that they are neither necessarily heroes, nor are they necessarily embodiments of evil--they are individuals, and some of them may very well be heroes, or evil doers, regardless of their military service--I don't think walking in one's shoes is necessary to cast judgment. I don't need to murder someone to know that murder is wrong, or to call murderers murderers. But, just to reiterate, I don't find guilt by association valid in this case.

As an aside, Ron Paul served in the military.

Ironically--ironic because I am agnostic--I generally have a mindset of 'forgive them, for they know not what they do' (Luke 23:34 IIRC) when it comes to the State's employees--be they military, police, or what have you--until they individually take action that is morally reprehensible. It is their individual actions that determine what wrong they have done, not simply their military or police service. Unfortunately, for military and police, if not others, they tend to corner themselves in a no-win situation where they have to support violence, or initiate violence themselves against otherwise innocent people, or else they too will become victims. While there has been conscription in the past, I suspect it is true for most today that no one made them join the police, or military--so in that sense, there was a choice. But again, where simply joining is concerned, 'forgive them, for they know not what they do.'

The vast majority of people believe they are serving good, and fighting evil. The vast majoirty of people join the police force, or the military because they believe it is honorable, and in the service of virtue.

In any case, playing these kinds of blame games for nothing more than association is ultimately a distraction. The true enemy is the State, and it's best not to lose sight of that.

 

[Christian Liberty]

As an aside, Ron Paul served in the military.

Yes, and?

Ron Paul is a far better man than I'll ever be, but I don't blindly get me ideas from him.

 

[Dr.3D]

I wouldn't go. I'd either leave the country, go to prison, or stand my ground and force them to kill me. I wouldn't go murder people overseas just because the governing authority told me too. That's WRONG.

Big words. I seriously hope you are never put in a position to actually have to live them.

 

[cajuncocoa]

Korea wasn't a defensive action. Neither was our incursion in the Philippines. There's more, but you get the point.

Agreed, but until anti war activists started to make serious noise during Vietnam, I don't think most Americans realized this.

 

[phill4paul]

I wouldn't go. I'd either leave the country, go to prison, or stand my ground and force them to kill me. I wouldn't go murder people overseas just because the governing authority told me too. That's WRONG.

Some did not go. Some left. You need to understand that times were...different...then. The opinions that you have formed at such a young age might not have come to you at that place and time. Remember, within just the last year your shift to anarcho-capitalism. Mostly based, I would glean, on your interaction over the internet. This information would not have been available then. The prevailing attitudes would not have been the same. Don't find too much fault in others that may not have had the same information you have had that have helped you sculpt your beliefs.

 

[Christian Liberty]

Big words. I seriously hope you are never put in a position to actually have to live them.

Is that because you hope I have a good life, or because you would advise me to do evil if that situation ever came to pass?

Trust me, I know how evil the military is. I would have nothing to do with it. And unlike some of you who don't believe in anything greater than yourselves (See, this is back to my point of the implicit uselessness of trying to get an atheist to see real morality) if I die I know where I'm going.

 

[Christian Liberty]

Some did not go. Some left. You need to understand that times were...different...then. The opinions that you have formed at such a young age might not have come to you at that place and time. Remember, within just the last year your shift to anarcho-capitalism. Mostly based, I would glean, on your interaction over the internet. This information would not have been available then. The prevailing attitudes would not have been the same. Don't find too much fault in others that may not have had the same information you have had that have helped you sculpt your beliefs.

A valid point, but if I had gone back then, that wouldn't be an EXCUSE. I might have done it, the wicked being that I am in my flesh, but I would never, EVER have had any kind of justification. If I had done it, I would not have been worthy of honor, I would be a murderer. And if I was later awakened to the truth, I would not pretend like I deserved any sort of honor for my wicked deeds that I did over there.

 

[better-dead-than-fed]

I'd either leave the country, go to prison, or stand my ground and force them to kill me.

That's not what you do when ordered to pay taxes to fund "murder".

I wouldn't go murder people overseas just because the governing authority told me too. That's WRONG.

But you pay taxes to fund "murder" just because the governing authority tells you to.

The distinction you make between those two cases seems arbitrary, as it's not dictated by "absolute morality" ("the authority of the Bible"). Not practicing what you're preaching, as far as I can see.

 

[Dr.3D]

Is that because you hope I have a good life, or because you would advise me to do evil if that situation ever came to pass?

Trust me, I know how evil the military is. I would have nothing to do with it. And unlike some of you who don't believe in anything greater than yourselves (See, this is back to my point of the implicit uselessness of trying to get an atheist to see real morality) if I die I know where I'm going.

What I meant was, we all have our own cross to bear and I hope that isn't the one you are required to bear. I hope you never find the need to dodge the draft.

 

[tod evans]

FF,

Are you signed up for "selective service" or whatever they're calling it?

 

[better-dead-than-fed]

I know how evil the military is. I would have nothing to do with it.

You are making the choice to fund the military instead of "leaving the country, going to prison, or standing your ground and forcing them to kill you". When you die, you know where you're going.

 

[Cabal]

Yes, and?

Ron Paul is a far better man than I'll ever be, but I don't blindly get me ideas from him.

You're implying anyone else does?

I thought it was plainly apparent how the mention of RP's military service related to the rest of my post. Would you like me to draw you a map with crayons and construction paper next time?

 

[phill4paul]

A valid point, but if I had gone back then, that wouldn't be an EXCUSE. I might have done it, the wicked being that I am in my flesh, but I would never, EVER have had any kind of justification. If I had done it, I would not have been worthy of honor, I would be a murderer. And if I was later awakened to the truth, I would not pretend like I deserved any sort of honor for my wicked deeds that I did over there.

One deals with the abject horror that is war in different ways.

If you have not already seen the movie "The Deer Hunter" I would recommend it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Deer_Hunter

 

[Brian4Liberty]

Caught a minute of CNN covering this story. They featured the guy who said that Obama needs to put down his Koran and come out the Whitehouse with his hands up. That must have been what this was all about. CNN: news you can trust.

 

[tod evans]

Caught a minute of CNN covering this story. They featured the guy who said that Obama needs to put down his Koran

The prez's "bible";

FF,

Are you signed up for "selective service" or whatever they're calling it?