Update: Just spoke to bus companies

[nayjevin]

Nobody's paying a political consultant.

Why did you wait so long to say this?

 

[Dave Aiello]

Why did you wait so long to say this?

I haven't read through the last 5ish pages - I assume this became an issue? The "political consultant" in question is a former RP staffer, and he is not being hired - He is willing to help us on the ground in Iowa.

 

[nayjevin]

I haven't read through the last 5ish pages - I assume this became an issue? The "political consultant" in question is a former RP staffer, and he is not being hired - He is willing to help us on the ground in Iowa.

Is he the person with the FB page that 'likes' Joe Arpaio and Team Huckabee?

Does he expect to be part of the Ron Paul campaign this time around? If not, why? Is it possible he's disgruntled?

Is he wishing to remain anonymous? If so, why?

Are you insinuating that your plan is grounded by using the phrase 'on the ground'? Are you insinuating other plans are ungrounded?

Do you think it's important to address concerns about your project? Do you think it's important to read a thread before posting?

Do you think it's important to read and answer questions directed toward your project? If so, why haven't you?

 

[nayjevin]

Nobody's paying a political consultant. If you want some clarity on that issue, the individual that you believe to be a "paid political consultant" happens to have been Ron's Political Director in Iowa for his '08 campaign. Please elaborate as to why it would be a bad idea to have him on board with this project?

I'm in complete agreement that we need familiar faces to be associated with this organization in order for it to solicit serious donations to our cause. It's a bit of a catch-22, however. You can't get people on board without something up and running, but in order for it to be up and running, you have to have familiar faces on board.

This isn't exactly the case, as I do see ways to get things started. I've talked with Maresco about this in some detail, and he is certainly trusted in the community, and he has said he is willing to be involved. I'm not sure, however, he has the ability to effectively handle the financial reporting and bookkeeping required. Another hurdle is the fact that someone that's well respected in the community must 1) be willing to volunteer their time, and 2) be capable of / have experience in handling finances. All of our expenditures will be made transparent, and multiple people will likely have access to this information, so I don't see it to be too big of an issue, but I do see the concern here.

PS - Tangent, I admire your skepticism and zeal in that regard, but nobody is getting any cut of anything. Teacherone is helping with the web development. We received chip-in donations to go toward web development. The only expenditure so far has been purchasing a cheap Joomla site template, which is looking top-notch, and once Teacherone and I finish it, will be a site that would otherwise cost well over 1k that we put together for $59 and our time. There will be some expenses incurred in the future, specifically the development of a real-time moneybomb module and payment processing platform, but that will be tackled when the time comes.

So after concerns were raised (and promptly ignored) that poor monetary decisions were being made, money was spent on something that could be free (a website template, just google for free website templates). Further, after concerns have been made as to other potential free resources being used (and promptly ignored), OP is warning that expenses will be incurred to re-invent the wheel and create them from scratch.

Again, why do you need a custom moneybomb module and payment processing platform? Have you ever heard of chipin? LOL

OK, I'm done here. All that's left is spin and selectively ignoring concerns.

I expect fully that my ideas will be incorporated with a 'SEE IT WAS FINE ALONG.' And that whatever success arises from the project will similarly be used as a 'YOU SHOULD HAVE TRUSTED US.'

I suspect the secrecy will be used against me as well when the plan is rolled out. 'SEE, WE WERE BEING RESPONSIBLE BEHIND CLOSED DOORS.'

 

[speciallyblend]

I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not.. but either way, you really aren't contributing anything to the discussion, and you aren't making much sense. And if you are not being sarcastic, I'd like you to elaborate as to what in the world you're talking about, and especially your reasoning behind the name-calling.

this is not what i was expecting when i opened this thread????? hmmmmmm lets see i have watched a ronpaul2012.tv video but i cannot stand alex jones! I do not understand the guilt by association. Can we somehow end this drama? Though i have no clue where the drama began!!!

 

[Dave Aiello]

this is not what i was expecting when i opened this thread????? hmmmmmm lets see i have watched a ronpaul2012.tv video but i cannot stand alex jones! I do not understand the guilt by association. Can we somehow end this drama? Though i have no clue where the drama began!!!

To sum up this thread:

I gave an update with progress in contacting bus companies. I have also taken initiative to start a grassroots PAC, whose leadership would consist of numerous prominent grassroots activists. The PAC could effectively fund our efforts to 1) house volunteers in Iowa 2) set up bussing hubs to bus RP supporters in to the straw poll to 3) win the Iowa straw poll. Also, the PAC has no contribution limits, while still being able to advocate the election of a federal candidate (citizens united v FEC, 2010). Since the court ruling last year lifting many restrictions, PACs have increased immensely in popularity and power in supporting federal candidates.

Our plans and expenses will be transparent so people know exactly what they're contributing to. It provides a perfect platform for people who 1) question the effectiveness of money spent by the official campaign and/or 2) have reached their legal donation limit to the official campaign. Using this PAC, we could also utilize and direct grassroots volunteers, whereas the official campaign cannot.

NayJevin and Tanget4RonPaul have expressed a dissenting opinion, where they believe we should rely on Ron Paul supporters to self-organize and carpool to the straw poll. We implemented this strategy in 08, and came in 5th place behind 4 candidates who had busing operations (including thompson and tancredo). They seem to fear anything which requires central planning.

There is reason to believe that the official campaign is implementing a similar strategy this year for the iowa straw poll. The majority of the grassroots understands the catalyzing effect that a win at Ames could have for this campaign, and that is why we want to have the infrastructure in place to win. With a win at Ames, legions of "I like Ron Paul but he can't win" voters would be awakened. With the win, comes months of positive media coverage. A win at Ames can't be taken lightly. Ron immediately becomes touted as a front runner in Iowa. The catalyzing effect would be immense.

 

[MelissaWV]

have reached their legal donation limit to the official campaign

How is this a problem when the official campaign has not yet begun? Do you believe that, upon announcement, so very many people will max out that their support will flood into the bus project in time to float it to solvency?

 

[tangent4ronpaul]

NayJevin and Tanget4RonPaul have expressed a dissenting opinion, where they believe we should rely on Ron Paul supporters to self-organize and carpool to the straw poll. We implemented this strategy in 08, and came in 5th place behind 4 candidates who had busing operations (including thompson and tancredo). They seem to fear anything which requires central planning.

Correction: we have both stated on many occasions that we are not adverse to buses and that for some areas they are appropriate. But locals should decide what they need. Vans would be more appropriate for some areas, and carpooling for others. but your got one point half right - we are against top-down structures, and like bottom-up. We like an open process, not one conducted in secret. We don't "fear" it, just think it has no place here.

 

[nayjevin]

To sum up this thread:

RonPaulNation has continued his pattern of smearing dissent and selectively ignoring opinions.

He has continued his pattern of claiming support from people he is unwilling to name.

He has continued to ignore valid concerns.

He calls Ron Paul supporters sheep - and he is to be the shepherd.

He despises transparency and shows a lack of understanding of the nature of grassroots organization.

He continually purports to have the best plan - without being willing to divulge details of that plan.

If there are good and honest grassroots leaders with integrity behind this project - they need to find a better spokesperson.

 

[tangent4ronpaul]

Is he the person with the FB page that 'likes' Joe Arpaio and Team Huckabee?

Does he expect to be part of the Ron Paul campaign this time around? If not, why? Is it possible he's disgruntled?

Is he wishing to remain anonymous? If so, why?

Are you insinuating that your plan is grounded by using the phrase 'on the ground'? Are you insinuating other plans are ungrounded?

Do you think it's important to address concerns about your project? Do you think it's important to read a thread before posting?

Do you think it's important to read and answer questions directed toward your project? If so, why haven't you?

bump! - what he said.

 

[speciallyblend]

To sum up this thread:

I gave an update with progress in contacting bus companies. I have also taken initiative to start a grassroots PAC, whose leadership would consist of numerous prominent grassroots activists. The PAC could effectively fund our efforts to 1) house volunteers in Iowa 2) set up bussing hubs to bus RP supporters in to the straw poll to 3) win the Iowa straw poll. Also, the PAC has no contribution limits, while still being able to advocate the election of a federal candidate (citizens united v FEC, 2010). Since the court ruling last year lifting many restrictions, PACs have increased immensely in popularity and power in supporting federal candidates.

Our plans and expenses will be transparent so people know exactly what they're contributing to. It provides a perfect platform for people who 1) question the effectiveness of money spent by the official campaign and/or 2) have reached their legal donation limit to the official campaign. Using this PAC, we could also utilize and direct grassroots volunteers, whereas the official campaign cannot.

NayJevin and Tanget4RonPaul have expressed a dissenting opinion, where they believe we should rely on Ron Paul supporters to self-organize and carpool to the straw poll. We implemented this strategy in 08, and came in 5th place behind 4 candidates who had busing operations (including thompson and tancredo). They seem to fear anything which requires central planning.

ok thanks, My concern is, i want to make sure we have iowa folks in charge of this

 

[IDefendThePlatform]

How is this a problem when the official campaign has not yet begun? Do you believe that, upon announcement, so very many people will max out that their support will flood into the bus project in time to float it to solvency?

I was under the impression that donating to the exploratory committee counts as the real campaign once he announces. And yes, this isn't a ton of people, but it only takes one Drew Carey with 10 or 20k to make a huge difference.

 

[Dave Aiello]

RonPaulNation has continued his pattern of smearing dissent and selectively ignoring opinions.

He has continued his pattern of claiming support from people he is unwilling to name.

He has continued to ignore valid concerns.

He calls Ron Paul supporters sheep - and he is to be the shepherd.

He despises transparency and shows a lack of understanding of the nature of grassroots organization.

He continually purports to have the best plan - without being willing to divulge details of that plan.

If there are good and honest grassroots leaders with integrity behind this project - they need to find a better spokesperson.

GO TO RONPAULNATION.ORG. we're working on the damn plans, right there, out in the open. This is happening regardless of your opinion, and the majority of people on this board understand the importance of implementing this plan. I believe that money spent on winning the Iowa straw poll will be the best money the grassroots has EVER spent.

I was under the impression that donating to the exploratory committee counts as the real campaign once he announces. And yes, this isn't a ton of people, but it only takes one Drew Carey with 10 or 20k to make a huge difference.

We can't do something of this magnitude without some sort of organizational structure. I don't know what's so hard to understand about this. We need a draw, and having a celebrity and having a small tent with food will be a pretty good way to convince people to take a 2-3 hour bus ride.

 

[nayjevin]

GO TO RONPAULNATION.ORG. we're working on the damn plans, right there, out in the open. This is happening regardless of your opinion, and the majority of people on this board understand the importance of implementing this plan.

Why have you ignored my concerns then?

Will you still be funding by selling bobbleheads?

 

[nayjevin]

GO TO RONPAULNATION.ORG. we're working on the damn plans, right there, out in the open.

Done, and not true. The plans were done in secret, and you are rolling them out on your own schedule.

This is happening regardless of your opinion, and the majority of people on this board understand the importance of implementing this plan.

Your willingness to speak for others and your view of people as sheep (and you the shepherd) is telling.

I believe that money spent on winning the Iowa straw poll will be the best money the grassroots has EVER spent.

But you insinuate that money should go to you and your experts - and that they should decide how the money is best spent. No transparency involved. And I've already shown your poor financial decisions that have already occurred - no response from you.

We can't do something of this magnitude without some sort of organizational structure.

Again, as I have said a dozen times - NO ONE IS AGAINST ORGANIZING. NO ONE IS AGAINST PLANNING. I am against YOUR plan, and the way you've gone about it. Your leadership skills are not suitable for this.

I don't get what's so hard to understand about this.

It is you who does not understand.

We need a draw, and having a celebrity and having a small tent with food will be a pretty good way to convince people to take a 2-3 hour bus ride.

And that was not your idea, and this is the first time you have mentioned it being any part of YOUR plan. That is not transparency. Again, it is you rolling out information as you see fit, on your schedule.

 

[Dave Aiello]

That's not at all the way the thread went. RonPaulNation has shown hostility to dissent and selectively ignored valid concerns.

You need to re-read the thread.

I donated the domain name to this project. New site, but selling Ron Paul stuff wouldn't be a bad idea for an alternative way of raising money for this.

Also, to clarify, I'm not looking to make any money on this project. Nobody is going to be paid as a part of this PAC. The board will all be volunteering their time. I'm a small business owner, and the nature of my job allows me to dedicate some time to this and travel, while offering my business management experience.

 

[nayjevin]

Also, to clarify, I'm not looking to make any money on this project.

You should be paid if you're chosen as a leader and put forth effort.

Nobody is going to be paid as a part of this PAC.

This is clearly not true. Who created the Joomla template? Who owns the bus companies? Who owns the catering business? How will they be chosen? So far, all in secret - while attempting to maintain a guise of transparency.

You don't seem to understand that there would not be such skepticism if it weren't for the way you've handled this.

And you continue to operate under the mindset that without you to shepherd them - the sheep won't make it to the straw poll.

But I have clearly shown in this thread how all of your reasoning to this end is fallacious and illusory.

 

[Dave Aiello]

You should be paid if you're chosen as a leader and put forth effort.



This is clearly not true. Who created the Joomla template? Who owns the bus companies? Who owns the catering business? How will they be chosen? So far, all in secret - while attempting to maintain a guise of transparency.

You don't seem to understand that there would not be such skepticism if it weren't for the way you've handled this.

And you continue to operate under the mindset that without you to shepherd them - the sheep won't make it to the straw poll.

But I have clearly shown in this thread how all of your reasoning to this end is fallacious and illusory.

To clarify - None of the leadership will be receiving a salary. Obviously we will be spending money on initiatives.

 

[nayjevin]

Thread was split:
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showth...iscussion-of-criticism-of-bus-project-in-Iowa

Skepticism comes from the way this is handled. The first assumption: People are sheep. The second assumption: We will get 5th place again (even with far more supporters) if we do nothing. The third assumption: RonPaulNation and his unnamed experts should lead us.

I have gotten no response whatsoever to my reasoning to why none of these assumptions have basis in fact. Summarily ignored.

And what of all the other points in that post? What of all the other points before it in this thread that you continue to ignore?

As I said before, I expect them to either be ignored in perpetuity, or incorporated in your plan, to be rolled out as you see fit - with a 'SEE YOU SHOULD HAVE TRUSTED US.'

 

[rp08orbust]

[ronpaulnation.org] calls Ron Paul supporters sheep - and he is to be the shepherd.

I could be wrong, but I don't think ronpaulnation.org (David) ever called anyone "sheep". That was my term for the overwhelming majority of Iowa Republican voters the busing project is intended to target, and I stand by that term. Ron Paul cannot win the Ames straw poll on the strength of the enlightened few of us who have, say, bought all his books, hang out on RonPaulForums.com, driven hundreds of miles just for his autograph and a photo, flown to DC for CPAC just to vote for him in a straw poll, etc. There are probably no more than a thousand people in Iowa who have done any of the above. That may be ten times more true believers than any other candidate has, and they may ultimately be the secret to Ron Paul's success, but the true believers are not enough to win the Ames straw poll.

Rather, we need the votes of 9,000 other people who are sheep in their political lives. No one has time to adequately research every choice they make in their lives. I don't adequately research my choice of automotive engine oil--I just go with whatever brand on the shelf looks like the winner, because I have zero interest in cars and automotive mechanics. That is how the vast majority of people make their choice about who to vote for in primary elections. Among the perhaps 1,000,000 sheepish Republicans or Republican-leaning independents in Iowa, there are perhaps 75,000 who would check the box next to Ron Paul on a piece of paper if they were made comfortable by Ron Paul supporters and the ballot were placed in front of them. The goal of the busing project is to herd as many of such people to Ames on August 13 as possible. The secret of our success will be in having enough true believers to fund and staff this project, not in having enough true believers to drive themselves and a few others who spontaneously decide to hop in the car with them to Ames.