Trump Has Killed More Civilians with Illegal Drone Strikes in 9 Months Than Obama Did in 8 Yea

[dannno]

The people got the leader and policies they deserve. FFS, "liberty" people on this very forum jumped at the chance to align themselves with Trump, The LP nominated Gary Johnson again (and are now distancing themselves from Ron himself), Rand Paul was largely ignored, and a far as I could tell had little to no grassroots movement.

Liberty ain't just dead, they killed it, buried it, dug it up, sodomized it, then lit it on fire.

That's what pisses me off about people like ol danno here. Fighting idiotic liberals back is one thing... but traitors to freedom is another.

Congrats, America. You broke liberty, ya bunch of assholes. And this is why we can't have nice things.

I'm not sure if you've noticed, but RAND AND MASSIE have been allying themselves with Trump and defending him in the media, so I guess they are traitors to freedom according to you?

Sorry if I don't accept George Soros propaganda at face value.. I never defended our foreign policy, I'm just questioning these specific results.

I supported Rand until he dropped out, and I guarantee I've done more for Rand than you have.

Maybe instead of people like me it's people who would rather have candidates, nay, criminals like Hillary and bring in millions of people, 80% of whom prefer "bigger government" compared to less than 50% of the current population and we can really start the liberty train

 

[undergroundrr]

I really haven't seen trump do anything that's actually going to affect immigration numbers significantly. He's arrested a bunch of managers at 7-Elevens but I don't think that's going to do it.

He's ripped the arms and legs off a bunch of little boys and girls though. That seems to have increased very significantly.

 

[CCTelander]

I really haven't seen trump do anything that's actually going to affect immigration numbers significantly. He's arrested a bunch of managers at 7-Elevens but I don't think that's going to do it.

He's ripped the arms and legs off a bunch of little boys and girls though. That seems to have increased very significantly.

Hey, but they're the best drone strikes. The best. And the greatest murders and maimings of innocent women and children. The greatest.

Ron Paul solution: We marched in, we can just march out.

Trump solution: MOAR drone strikes.

 

[William Tell]

I'm not sure if you've noticed, but RAND AND MASSIE have been allying themselves with Trump and defending him in the media, so I guess they are traitors to freedom according to you?

Have you noticed though, that when when they do align themselves with him it is to leverage in favor of liberty? I haven't seen them defend his foreign policy moves with the exception of foreign aid to Pakistan. When Trump is right on something then great, but when he's wrong he's wrong. We ought to call a spade a spade and not make excuses for the same foreign policy we've always opposed.

Drone strikes of civilians is wrong under Bush, Obama And Trump. All the same, the fact that we don't know the exact number of innocents makes it more appalling not less.

 

[dannno]

Have you noticed though, that when when they do align themselves with him it is to leverage in favor of liberty? I haven't seen them defend his foreign policy moves with the exception of foreign aid to Pakistan. When Trump is right on something then great, but when he's wrong he's wrong. We ought to call a spade a spade and not make excuses for the same foreign policy we've always opposed.

Drone strikes of civilians is wrong under Bush, Obama And Trump. All the same, the fact that we don't know the exact number of innocents makes it more appalling not less.

You should read my entire post instead of cherry picking. I said right after that I've never defended Trump's foreign policy, I'm saying that Airwars could be lying about the results. There is a huge difference.

 

[William Tell]

You should read my entire post instead of cherry picking. I said right after that I've never defended Trump's foreign policy, I'm saying that Airwars could be lying about the results. There is a huge difference.

I did read your post. I don't take the time to respond to every point I agree with. The numbers we heard about Bush and Obama could be incorrect too. What difference does it make? That's all speculation of leftist anti war sites vs NeoCon warmonger sites. Either way the policies that are causing innocents to die are continuing, unless you have evidence otherwise.

I don't recall anyone here hand wringing over the exact numbers under about Bush and Obama.

 

[William Tell]

Anyone have video of Rand, Ron, or Massie questioning whether the death toll is not as high as we think it might be? Of course not, because either way they know our foreign policy still sucks, and needs to change.

 

[dannno]

I did read your post. I don't take the time to respond to every point I agree with. The numbers we heard about Bush and Obama could be incorrect too. What difference does it make? That's all speculation of leftist anti war sites vs NeoCon warmonger sites. Either way the policies that are causing innocents to die are continuing, unless you have evidence otherwise.

I don't recall anyone here hand wringing over the exact numbers under about Bush and Obama.

Did you read the thread title by any chance? That is the entire subject of the thread.. I didn't post the thread, I'm just responding.

The reason it is important is because of all of the damage Hillary Clinton would have done to our country, and she would have continued our atrocious foreign policy.

Rand has helped pass a lot of positive legislation through Trump that he would not have been able to do otherwise. Me and specs and probably almost everybody here are getting some significant raises in the form of tax breaks this year.

While no civilians should die, it DOES matter if Trump kills 10 civilians or 10 million civilians. That is 9,999,990 more civilians dead of he killed ten million vs. 10. So if we are going to compare and contrast the damage done vs. the gains made, it's important to get it at least kinda right.

I'm still very hopeful that Trump is going to be winding a lot of this stuff down in time, he is not a Bush or McCain 100 years in Afghanistan kinda guy. He is a have a goal, go in and achieve it, and get out kinda guy. That means we could see some very positive changes in foreign policy, even if we think there were much better paths that could have been taken.

 

[Influenza]

Anyone have video of Rand, Ron, or Massie questioning whether the death toll is not as high as we think it might be? Of course not, because either way they know our foreign policy still sucks, and needs to change.

It's because they look at the available information and draw conclusions from it. They don't begin with "Trump is Ron Paul on steroids and the Deep State is trying to bring down Trump because they don't like his _____" and subsequently dismiss all information casting a negative light on him, like what our RPF friends do. I really don't get what the deep state dislikes about Trump though. Foreign policy 100% on board. Goldman Sachs wrote the tax plan. So what exactly is Trump doing that they don't like? Some culture war BS? Is that all they got?

 

[undergroundrr]

Foreign policy 100% on board.

Your number is inaccurate. 200% on board. He literally gave all military engagement decision-making to the Pentagon and CIA. We thought it was bad when congress absolved its authority?

Is anybody really going to be surprised when the MIC is given authority over local police? Oh I know, it could never happen because Randal has him in his pocket.

 

[dannno]

Anyone have video of Rand, Ron, or Massie questioning whether the death toll is not as high as we think it might be? Of course not, because either way they know our foreign policy still sucks, and needs to change.

According to official government sources, it is 95% lower than what is being reported here. What venue would they be doing this questioning?

I THINK OUR FOREIGN POLICY STILL SUCKS AND NEEDS TO BE CHANGED. I think it will turn out better under Trump than Hillary, though.

And that doesn't mean I'm going to take a bunch of airwars propaganda at face value.

 

[dannno]

It's because they look at the available information and draw conclusions from it. They don't begin with "Trump is Ron Paul on steroids and the Deep State is trying to bring down Trump because they don't like his _____" and subsequently dismiss all information casting a negative light on him, like what our RPF friends do. I really don't get what the deep state dislikes about Trump though. Foreign policy 100% on board. Goldman Sachs wrote the tax plan. So what exactly is Trump doing that they don't like? Some culture war BS? Is that all they got?

The tax plan is great, the majority of people here think it is a lot better than "crumbs" so you aren't going to be very convincing with that here. Most of us are getting tax-break raises in the several thousand dollar range this year.. I'm pretty sure the deep state doesn't like all of the legislation that Rand is helping Trump pass.. and letting millions of people in 80% of whom want "bigger government" compared to less than half the people here, that is not "some culture war BS", that is a major issue.

Trump is chipping away at the deep state, if he did what you would have wanted him to do he would have been impeached.. Instead he is playing it smart. He isn't a perfect libertarian, but he is bringing us in the right direction.

So I'm a bit hesitant to believe the sensationalism here, and I think Trump will be winding down our foreign policy after some time. I've been saying that from the beginning. When I dunno, the sooner the better.

 

[osan]

Anyone who kills from afar is no friend of freedom.

BuhWHA?

Non-foikkin'-sequitur.

Trump is the worst thing that could have happened to America.

You didn't just write that.

The implication here is that Hillary would have been better, however marginally.

Mesupposes you need to rethink this just a wee bit.

Now people cheer and wave flags and read his tweets and think that everything he does is nothing short of glorious.

I'm thinking you are exaggerating here a mite. There are such people and they seem to get plastered all over the news an awful lot, which in itself leaves me wondering just how many there really are.

Trump is not my ideal by a long shot, but he has put the brakes on that which so badly needed braking. In the end, he may prove to have done nothing much better than dragging the pendulum back to the other tyrannical extreme. That has yet to prove out. Until that time, I will provisionally and stintingly lend my open mind. Give the man all the rope he wants and lets see what he does with it.

If in 3 or 7 more years the land is greatly improved, albeit still deathly ill, I am thinking some of you are going to owe the man an apology. If not, then you can say you were right all along, even if only by pure happenstance, which is all you have at this still-early stage.

 

[Influenza]

The tax plan is great, the majority of people here think it is a lot better than "crumbs" so you aren't going to be very convincing with that here. Most of us are getting tax-break raises in the several thousand dollar range this year.. I'm pretty sure the deep state doesn't like all of the legislation that Rand is helping Trump pass.. and letting millions of people in 80% of whom want "bigger government" compared to less than half the people here, that is not "some culture war BS", that is a major issue.

Trump is chipping away at the deep state, if he did what you would have wanted him to do he would have been impeached.. Instead he is playing it smart. He isn't a perfect libertarian, but he is bringing us in the right direction.

So I'm a bit hesitant to believe the sensationalism here, and I think Trump will be winding down our foreign policy after some time. I've been saying that from the beginning. When I dunno, the sooner the better.

hmm so most white people are against bigger government, and most immigrants support bigger government. Who do we have to thank for the trillion dollar drug war? White people. Who do we have to thank for the multi trillion dollar wars in Vietnam, Afghanistan, Iraq? White people. What about the bank bailouts? White people. What about QE? White people.

But the immigrants naively want some of this money to go to welfare programs, so we better make sure they stay out before they make us spend more money. brb gonna put up billions of dollars in walls. Remember when the retard in chief proposed to deport ALL illegal immigrants on day 1 of his presidency? Sounds more like 90 IQ than 150. Luckily his handlers reigned him in

 

[Zippyjuan]

According to official government sources, it is 95% lower than what is being reported here. What venue would they be doing this questioning?

I THINK OUR FOREIGN POLICY STILL SUCKS AND NEEDS TO BE CHANGED. I think it will turn out better under Trump than Hillary, though.

And that doesn't mean I'm going to take a bunch of airwars propaganda at face value.

One reason he put the CIA in charge of drone attacks is so that they would not have to report casualties. They also don't have to worry as much about potential "collateral damage" (civilian deaths).

 

[kcchiefs6465]

According to official government sources, it is 95% lower than what is being reported here. What venue would they be doing this questioning?

I THINK OUR FOREIGN POLICY STILL SUCKS AND NEEDS TO BE CHANGED. I think it will turn out better under Trump than Hillary, though.

And that doesn't mean I'm going to take a bunch of airwars propaganda at face value.

Do realize that if the numbers aren't correct, and I doubt that they are, it is because the melted, mangled, bodies are counted and buried in mass graves with sheep, goats and whatever else was around before evaporation. In short, two arms make a person.

The 95% figure is based on every able bodied adult aged male being counted as a terrorist. Aged 16 plus around a signature which might be construed as a training camp, compound and/or etc. and you are posthumously convicted of being a terrorist. See: Abdulrahman.

In short, go fuck yourself you propaganda peddling whore of the state. Here's to hoping the next bong hit reconnects misfires in your noggin and you come back to sanity. Ffs.

 

[dannno]

Do realize that if the numbers aren't correct, and I doubt that they are, it is because the melted, mangled, bodies are counted and buried in mass graves with sheep, goats and whatever else was around before evaporation. In short, two arms make a person.

The 95% figure is based on every able bodied adult aged male being counted as a terrorist. Aged 16 plus around a signature which might be construed as a training camp, compound and/or etc. and you are posthumously convicted of being a terrorist. See: Abdulrahman.

In short, go fuck yourself you propaganda peddling whore of the state. Here's to hoping the next bong hit reconnects misfires in your noggin and you come back to sanity. Ffs.

Did you read the memo? Look around dude, look at what people are going through to get rid of Trump - and these are deep state people. I haven't heard Ron Paul call for Trump's impeachment once.

You know who is deep state and really hates Trump? The person who pays for these figures, George Soros.

I don't trust the state figures, I don't trust the Airwars figures.. But I think Obama was responsible for the tens if not hundreds of thousands of deaths and occurred because we armed and funded ISIS, and he doesn't get credit for those.

I haven't defended our foreign policy once, except that it is probably much better than what we would have had with Hillary. But to come out and say that Trump has already done more damage than Obama doesn't take into account the damage that Obama did, and it also uses questionable figures from questionable sources.

I'm really not quite sure what exactly any of you have with my statements.

 

[kcchiefs6465]

Did you read the memo? Look around dude, look at what people are going through to get rid of Trump - and these are deep state people. I haven't heard Ron Paul call for Trump's impeachment once.

He would call for his impeachment.. Albeit for different reasons, much like with Bill Clinton.

You know who is deep state and really hates Trump? The person who pays for these figures, George Soros.

Airwars is doing a lot of good things. To wit, documenting war crimes. They were doing it prior to Trump, reporting accurately on strikes occurring across the Middle East. Generals say they don't believe the numbers. I know you are aware of the deceptive ways they tally terrorists.

You are building controversey where there really ought not be any. If a reporter asked about the figures Trump would not shy away from them. It was a campaign pillar to dismantle ISIS. Where there are clusterbombs there will be clusters of dead civilians.

What payload of munitions are attributable to Trump? That would give an honest and stark look into his foreign policy.

I don't trust the state figures, I don't trust the Airwars figures.. But I think Obama was responsible for the tens if not hundreds of thousands of deaths and occurred because we armed and funded ISIS, and he doesn't get credit for those.

Obama should be in a prison cell.

Airwars documents, and correct me if I'm wrong as I haven't been to their site in years, the carnage of drones, am I right?

I haven't defended our foreign policy once, except that it is probably much better than what we would have had with Hillary. But to come out and say that Trump has already done more damage than Obama doesn't take into account the damage that Obama did, and it also uses questionable figures from questionable sources.

It is not dismissing Obama's additional warcrimes to compare a specific portion of his war crimes to Trump's warcrimes. In other words, arming and funding both sides of the Syrian conflict has little to do with comparing drone warfare death tolls.

Trump promised to unrestrain the generals, did he not? He gave more authority to the CIA in conducting targeted kill operations (specifically drones), did he not? I don't know what's controversial about the numbers.

Now if you want to argue that he didn't start all of these conflicts, he inherited a bad situation, then that would at least be a debate to be had. You come in pimping state figures while dismissing other figures as they are 'Soros backed propaganda.' One, as if Soros isn't an actor promulgating the state and two, without even offering a shred of evidence that the Airwars figures (which were cited everywhere just a few years back) are biased or fabricated or even flat out incorrect.

I'm really not quite sure what exactly any of you have with my statements.

It is because you are beginning to sound like Michael Hayden.

 

[dannno]

He would call for his impeachment.. Albeit for different reasons, much like with Bill Clinton.

Why would he impeach someone who is working with Rand when whoever replaces them most certainly would NOT??

Airwars is doing a lot of good things. To wit, documenting war crimes.

It's not the independent documenters I am concerned about so much, the fact is it is all centralized and they can probably easily make some twitter bots that just sends in numbers with no rhyme or reason and they would probably be counted.. All in the name of making Trump look bad. It wouldn't surprised me in the least. Trump has been getting that treatment from news organizations and such all across the deep state spectrum, why not this one?

They were doing it prior to Trump, reporting accurately on strikes occurring across the Middle East. Generals say they don't believe the numbers. I know you are aware of the deceptive ways they tally terrorists.

There was no reason for them to fudge the numbers in the upward direction when Obama was President, Obama was a Soros puppet.. in fact I wish they would have called Obama out on all the weapons and funds transfers to ISIS.

Trump promised to unrestrain the generals, did he not? He gave more authority to the CIA in conducting targeted kill operations (specifically drones), did he not? I don't know what's controversial about the numbers.

They seem a bit high, especially the civilian casualties. Was Obama really holding the MIC back that much?

 

[kcchiefs6465]

Why would he impeach someone who is working with Rand when whoever replaces them most certainly would NOT??

Because he has principles.

It's not the independent documenters I am concerned about so much, the fact is it is all centralized and they can probably easily make some twitter bots that just sends in numbers with no rhyme or reason and they would probably be counted.. All in the name of making Trump look bad. It wouldn't surprised me in the least. Trump has been getting that treatment from news organizations and such all across the deep state spectrum, why not this one?

Because they have demonstrated themselves as principled before it became fashionable. In other words, they would have provided evidence to aid in Obama's imprisonment and they are continuing into Trump's presidency. And it all makes sense, really. Have the strikes accelerated or decelerated since Trump took office? And furthermore what did he promise all the while while campaigning? It almost feels like Trump would embrace the statistic and you'd still be talking about where the statistic came from.

There was no reason for them to fudge the numbers in the upward direction when Obama was President, Obama was a Soros puppet.. in fact I wish they would have called Obama out on all the weapons and funds transfers to ISIS.

There was no reason for them to paint Obama as a war criminal, either. Yet they did and here we are.

I believe they are an organization dedicated to bringing an end to the drone wars. While speaking of all of the travesties the US and allies are involved with is a consistent position, it doesn't seem inconsistent to focus on one area of horror in an attempt to have a greater impact.

They seem a bit high, especially the civilian casualties. Was Obama really holding the MIC back that much?

He was empowering the MIC for the presidencies to come. Trump went beyond that (as was predicted by many). He's not the worst there could have been but then again, so what?