This movement needs to be more tolerant...

[Kade]

Yes. We should be "tolerant" of them IMHO. Most of all because it has been my experience that many supposed "Obama supporters" are in fact Ron Paul converts in waiting. Obama has devastated the hard core left with his recent hawkish Israel, Iran and Georgia (eventually) stances, as well as, his vote for telecom immunity/wiretapping. I have found that many Obama supporters are ripe to embrace the message of limited government after their "faith" in "Mr. Perfect" "messiah" Obama has been shattered. Oftentimes, the one remaining stumbling block is the environment/global warming.... which is something we're going to have to address if we hope to draw numbers from the left.

At any rate, I'm not preaching any sort of active recruitment and "conversion" process... but by being "tolerant" now... we may find ourselves in a good position to benefit from Obama's many missteps and "let downs" in the future.

You should probably not use this kind of language... this is insulting, and frankly, I am finding it hard to prevent a Kadestorm.

In my opinion, you make it hard for us to be tolerant towards you. We are the defenders of liberty, and we will call out the nonsense when we see it.. We, "hardcore left" don't like the government any more than you do, so stop using language that implies we worship the state.... the only thing we like about the state in a Democracy, we have some control of it... so we are willing to use it to prevent violations of liberty. The other side is equally willing to resort to things we DO NOT like... for instance, using the STATE to prevent certain types of sex, unions, abortions, medical treatments, research, substances...etc.

These are the things you folks are going to have to swallow... and let us have our recycling and our green shit... and with a nice limited government mentality, we will teach our brothers and sisters to not use the Federal Government to hose other people's rights, especially in regards to potential legislation on Global Warming, which is what I think most Conservatives fear...

If these things are dealt with, calmly, and respectfully, I promise you, you will convert more than 30% of this country towards your model of government. The only reason the left seems to embrace the state is because we are somehow entwined with the welfarists and statists, the democratics, and the "left lobbyists"... which we are not. We get caught up for the same reasons you folks vote Republican... we have no other choice in our minds.

If you would have been listening to me for a year now, you would realize that I am not lying about my group. Liberals. Anti-government. Anti-corruption. Anti-corporation. Very pro-liberty... this should be your target...

You need people like me... who have their pulse on these people. I can and do often speak for them, I am one of them. You cannot convert them with the language used here.. you cannot continue to call them statists, when you yourselves are equally statist in some regards.

...

 

[tonesforjonesbones]

Well I LOVE the Liberty movement, but remember, we are only a year old! Changing the hearts and minds of enough people to make a difference in this election is not possible, but it's a good start! I'm not telling ANYONE to do what I do..I would never! I am voting for McCain :

1. Sarah Palin I believe to be a glimmer of hope of getting a libertarian / conservative in the Whitehouse.

2. Obama and the democrats will continue the wars (due to NATO) AND introduce a laundry list of new social programs thereby raising taxes on EVERYONE in order to fund them.

3. Republicans are more capitalists than socialist. (do you want MORE government?)

The American people want change. Sarah Palin, IF the neo cons dont' ruin her (I don't think they will..she's too tough) would give us a chance to clean up Washington.

I love Ron Paul..and I agree with Philidelphia. Ron Paul , if he is going to be the leader of this movement, needs to LEAD. He should have endorsed Baldwin or Barr...and certainly not Nader or McKinney! (unless he thinks he can convert them..they are socialists) . This movement would have made a real impact if we could have stuck together, but we didn't did we? We're all over the map. I do not consider that splitting our votes in 4 directions is going to make any sort of impact whatsoever. I am 51 years old, and I can reason things out for myself. I can't totally follow Ron Paul because HE is not leading...whoever his advisors are...are driving the bus and I dont' care much for their advice.

The Liberty movement has to grow...for me, I have to vote for McCain this time, but I will work with the GOP to change hearts and minds so we have a better shot at it in 2012. TONES

 

[acptulsa]

If we act like some kind of "Limited Government Taliban" and scare people off who aren't quite "there" yet... we'll be playing right into the current major party leaderships' hands IMHO.

You draw more flies with honey than with vinegar. Yes the reality is sour. This just makes most people appreciate the sugar coating even more--at least until it threatens their very existence.

Of course, TPTB offer only the sugar. They say it's all fine and their substance runs completely counter to their sugar. You see where the economy is going. People's sweet tooths will end when they get the diabetes.

When the day comes I hope we will have enough sense to avoid bitterly barking "I told you so!" and instead calmly and kindly say, "We can go this direction now and salvage quite a bit..."

 

[Kade]

1. Sarah Palin I believe to be a glimmer of hope of getting a libertarian / conservative in the Whitehouse.

Absolutely insane post. She is not libertarian, simply because she wants to secede from the union. She cost the American Tax Payer millions.

2. Obama and the democrats will continue the wars (due to NATO) AND introduce a laundry list of new social programs thereby raising taxes on EVERYONE in order to fund them.

And Palin won't? What about her promise to help special needs kids? This women is a neocon social conservative. Period.

3. Republicans are more capitalists than socialist. (do you want MORE government?)

Which is why they are running to bailout and socialize the banks on our coin.

This is nonsense. If McCain is so qualified to run for office, why didn't you vote his cantankerous ass in office in 2000?

 

[tonesforjonesbones]

I am beginning to believe that this forum really loves Obama. Is this a left wing loon forum? I could never buy into that. Ron Paul is a CONSERVATIVE. Tones

 

[EndTheFed]

...
These are the things you folks are going to have to swallow... and let us have our recycling and our green shit ...
...

See a doctor.... hehe

 

[tonesforjonesbones]

Kade. I am a CONSERVATIVE..I am a paleoconservative. I'm not a socialist. TONES

 

[tonesforjonesbones]

Furthermore, the Obama supporters are the nastiest bunch of people I have ever run into. I'm , quite frankly, sick of being called a racist because I'm not voting for OBAMA. I am voting AGAINST the Obama supporters. They are WORSE than the Ron Paul supporters were. I couldn't vote for anyone whose supporters threaten to RIOT if their guy doesn't win. LUNATICS that are going to incite riots and push martial law. <eyeroll> TONES (Al Sharpton has guaranteed riots if Obama loses and he should be thrown in jail)

 

[acptulsa]

Well I LOVE the Liberty movement, but remember, we are only a year old! Changing the hearts and minds of enough people to make a difference in this election is not possible, but it's a good start! I'm not telling ANYONE to do what I do..I would never! I am voting for McCain :

1. Sarah Palin I believe to be a glimmer of hope of getting a libertarian / conservative in the Whitehouse.

McCain has been giving lip service to the ideals pretty well himself lately. I don't believe him either.

2. Obama and the democrats will continue the wars (due to NATO) AND introduce a laundry list of new social programs thereby raising taxes on EVERYONE in order to fund them.

Versus McCain running a bigger defecit, thus taxing everyone's kids...

3. Republicans are more capitalists than socialist. (do you want MORE government?)

Fascism only looks more capitalist than socialist.

The American people want change. Sarah Palin, IF the neo cons dont' ruin her (I don't think they will..she's too tough) would give us a chance to clean up Washington.

Then why doesn't she go off script? And how does the vice president's office have enough power to accomplish anything at all, much less something that bucks her own president's will?

I love Ron Paul..and I agree with Philidelphia. Ron Paul , if he is going to be the leader of this movement, needs to LEAD. He should have endorsed Baldwin or Barr...and certainly not Nader or McKinney! (unless he thinks he can convert them..they are socialists) . This movement would have made a real impact if we could have stuck together, but we didn't did we? We're all over the map. I do not consider that splitting our votes in 4 directions is going to make any sort of impact whatsoever. I am 51 years old, and I can reason things out for myself. I can't totally follow Ron Paul because HE is not leading...whoever his advisors are...are driving the bus and I dont' care much for their advice.

He's not trying to convert Nader and McKinney. He's looking around with clear vision and seeing (as Kade has been trying to point out for quite some time) that there are lots of Kuchinich Democrats out there who want to preserve, protect and defend the Constitution as much as we do. Do you really believe we're better off working at cross purposes to them than working together with them to get the crooks the hell out of Washington?

The powers that be love to divide us and so keep us conquered. I say we take that play out of their playbook.

 

[NCGOPer_for_Paul]

I am beginning to believe that this forum really loves Obama. Is this a left wing loon forum? I could never buy into that. Ron Paul is a CONSERVATIVE. Tones

+1776

Fellow paleoconservative here.

 

[tonesforjonesbones]

If Sarah Palin is on the bottom of the ticket, how is she supposed to go "off script"? Ya'll really need to watch G. Edward Griffin's "An Idea Whose Time Has Come". You can't get in the door by going AGAINST the establishment. You have to be the biggest cheerleader of all...gain their confidence...and THEN start making baby step changes here and there. That is what the NEO CONS did to take over the GOP. They didn't go IN protesting...they played the game. It takes time. We have got to start somewhere. Palin CAN't go off script and do any good. Look where it got the Ron Paul movement?? THROWN OUT of the GOP!!! It doestn work. Protesting may feel good...but it's the wrong approach. TONES

 

[tonesforjonesbones]

NCgoper...thank GOD I am not alone here. Tones

 

[acptulsa]

Palin CAN't go off script and do any good. Look where it got the Ron Paul movement?? THROWN OUT of the GOP!!! It doestn work. Protesting may feel good...but it's the wrong approach. TONES

You forgot to mention coalition building. The neocons built coalitions with the evangelicals, too. Surely you remember.

The evangelicals got screwed, too, but that's beside the point.

How will building coalitions with Kucinich Democrats do any harm? You know we'll go our seperate ways when the threat is neutralized...

 

[Kade]

I am beginning to believe that this forum really loves Obama. Is this a left wing loon forum? I could never buy into that. Ron Paul is a CONSERVATIVE. Tones

And Ron Paul supports McCain?

 

[acptulsa]

NCgoper...thank GOD I am not alone here. Tones

You know you are not alone here. The problem is that all of us together are still a minority--and that ugly truth is the real reason we didn't get Ron Paul nominated. This makes an attitude of no allies no how never completely self-defeating.

 

[tonesforjonesbones]

Kucinich..the only thing I agree with Kucinich on is the wars. He's still a left wing loon. Ron Paul is a REPUBLICAN. He is in NO way a socialist democrat. geesh. Let me ask, how many people were democrats before you discovered Ron Paul? I am far far right. Tones

 

[acptulsa]

And Ron Paul supports McCain?

Of course not. McCain is not a conservative!

Thank you for pointing out what should be obvious.

No constitution-loving person is the real enemy right now, no matter how poor a conservative.

 

[acptulsa]

Kucinich..the only thing I agree with Kucinich on is the wars. He's still a left wing loon. Ron Paul is a REPUBLICAN. He is in NO way a socialist democrat. geesh. Let me ask, how many people were democrats before you discovered Ron Paul? I am far far right. Tones

The only thing is the wars? Are you sure? Kucinich honors his oath to preserve, protect and defend the Constitution better than any other member of Congress save one. How many Republicans does he beat in that regard?

All of them but one.

 

[aravoth]

You should probably not use this kind of language... this is insulting, and frankly, I am finding it hard to prevent a Kadestorm.

...

You are such a girl.

 

[tonesforjonesbones]

Does Ron Paul support Obama? Foreign policy is screwed up. Neither party is going to be able to fix that. The only way to fix it is to abolish NATO. Obama has to follow it and so does Palin...It is a bad institution. We have all those treaties. Why won't the USA allow the arab states into Nato? They keep asking? ISRAEL has tooo much influence on our foreign policy. This has to be fixed. Until the Liberty movement addresses AIPAC and the zionist movement, we aren't going to get anywhere. Why are there so many duel citizens with Israel in high positions in our government? Why is AIPAC the only lobby group that these politicans have to go before? We have to get a handle on this ....because this is the United States of Israel at the moment. TONES