The Zimmerman Trial

[amy31416]

You're kidding yourself if you think there are an equal amount of articles smearing Zimmerman's past on these boards. Hell, there's a thread solely on the theory that Trayvon may have been thinking of using Skittles and AIT to concoct a drug! It's like Breitbart-Lite here when it comes to this case. Not only that, but I was specifically referring to the article I linked when I said I wasn't aware of anyone bringing that up specifically.

I agree that the past doesn't matter when determining the case. However, if people are going to dredge up Trayvon's past in an attempt to smear his image here, it's only fair that the same is done for the other side as well.

I don't even understand your logic about me bringing it up, therefore disproving myself. The reason I posted it was because I hadn't seen it being posted at all, which was the reason for posting it in the first place. It's freely available information that people are willingly ignoring while theorizing about PURPLE DRANK or whatever because it fits their narrative. Instead, if they're going to analyze one person's past, they should be doing it with both individuals.

Once again, where in the hell did I imply "on these boards?"

I said ARTICLES. I read them. I read lefty stuff just as much as I read righty stuff. Damn. And you're going to lecture me about logic when you say that "nobody" smears Zimmerman, then you post an article that does smear Zimmerman? Come on man!

You really need me to do a search on articles critical of Zimmerman's character and post them here for you? You were able to find at least one--and I know there's plenty more out there. Don't make me waste my time.

 

[Antischism]

I'm not talking about this thread, I'm talking about **articles**. This thread is the product of this small group of people who are more likely to lean right, politically, so it's not shocking to me that you'd find more sympathy for GZ over TM.

I don't have solid opinions on this case, but I do know that both have been smeared, and it seems equal if you tend to read left and right sources--and Antischism just said that NOBODY smeared GZ, which is obviously not true.

The only things I'm reasonably sure of is that TM did try to beat the crap out of GZ and he did look pretty banged up, and that GZ should not have gotten out of his truck and followed him in the first place.

Neighborhood watches need to have some sort of alert system for the residents when the watcher sees anyone suspicious.

You misread my post then, I said that the particular article I was linking to hadn't been posted before, at least to my knowledge. Obviously people have posted articles bringing Zimmerman's character into question, but it's like finding a needle in a haystack here.

 

[amy31416]

You misread my post then, I said that the particular article I was linking to hadn't been posted before, at least to my knowledge. Obviously people have posted articles bringing Zimmerman's character into question, but it's like finding a needle in a haystack here.

You may well be right about this board and that article, but you aren't the only one on the TM "side" here. And you ain't gonna change those who are "knee-jerk" GZ defenders--why are you surprised that many people here are biased?

 

[Antischism]

You may well be right about this board and that article, but you aren't the only one on the TM "side" here. And you ain't gonna change those who are "knee-jerk" GZ defenders--why are you surprised that many people here are biased?

I don't have a side, I think both were in the wrong in their own way. Maybe I'm foolish for trying to level the playing field and people will ignore it due to their own reasons, but I feel better knowing I at least did something to make sure all sides are represented. If no one posted anything that questioned Zimmerman's character, it'd just be a huge circle-jerk.

 

[Ender]

You may well be right about this board and that article, but you aren't the only one on the TM "side" here.

I moved toward the TM 'side" because of the extreme prejudice I have seen on almost all "conservative/libertarian" forums. As I have mentioned before, Trayvon was immediately guilty on these forums because he wore a hoodie. Some said that even if he wasn't the instigator, he was at fault because of his clothing. The prevalent racism and bias was amazing to me.

Because I have a weakness for the underdog, I did a lot of research into the case and found that Zimmerman's story was extremely questionable and that he was not the NW saint that most neocons were painting him to be, any more than TM was the hoodlum that everyone was trying to create.

BTW- the article that Antichism posted states that the judge has accepted Witness 9's statements into the evidence; should be very interesting.

 

[amy31416]

I moved toward the TM 'side" because of the extreme prejudice I have seen on almost all "conservative/libertarian" forums. As I have mentioned before, Trayvon was immediately guilty on these forums because he wore a hoodie. Some said that even if he wasn't the instigator, he was at fault because of his clothing. The prevalent racism and bias was amazing to me.

Because I have a weakness for the underdog, I did a lot of research into the case and found that Zimmerman's story was extremely questionable and that he was not the NW saint that most neocons were painting him to be, any more than TM was the hoodlum that everyone was trying to create.

BTW- the article that Antichism posted states that the judge has accepted Witness 9's statements into the evidence; should be very interesting.

It will be. I find it plausible and admissible if it's true that Zimmerman had violent tendencies or "wannabe cop" tendencies, that he may be charged with something. I also find it plausible and admissible if Trayvon tended to be a punk kid who sought "trouble."

From the evidence, it does seem to be the case that Trayvon was on top and was beating Zimmerman--that's kind of tough to deny. Did Zimmerman instigate it? That's more speculative, so I think it's going to be tough to make charges stick. If I were on the jury, I don't think I could say that Zimmerman's guilty of murder--but then again I'm not following it closely enough to know the subtleties.

 

[kahless]

I moved toward the TM 'side" because of the extreme prejudice I have seen on almost all "conservative/libertarian" forums. As I have mentioned before, Trayvon was immediately guilty on these forums because he wore a hoodie. Some said that even if he wasn't the instigator, he was at fault because of his clothing. The prevalent racism and bias was amazing to me.

Because I have a weakness for the underdog, I did a lot of research into the case and found that Zimmerman's story was extremely questionable and that he was not the NW saint that most neocons were painting him to be, any more than TM was the hoodlum that everyone was trying to create.

BTW- the article that Antichism posted states that the judge has accepted Witness 9's statements into the evidence; should be very interesting.

The only extreme prejudice I see here is to the beliefs of individual liberty. Your posts and a few others on this subject have been consistently pro-statist.

Examples:

- Disparaging the concept of a private individual observing his community for crime prevention purposes in favor of official law enforcement.

- Complaining that Zimmerman was not a member of an official "national neighborhood watch".

- Promoting violation of the non-aggression principle. Posts believing that if the above occurs that the person being followed has a right to attack the follower or observer.

- Stating that there is no risk of death or injury if a stranger is on top of your beating you MMA style. Promoting that individuals do not have right of self defense and must allow themselves to be beaten waiting for official law enforcement.

- Repeated posts complaining that Zimmerman did not follow the advice of a government dispatcher at a non-emergency number. In addition repeating the false claim that it was a 911 emergency number. This is blatant promotion of statist obedience propaganda.

Posts like yours above that play the race card. Combined that with what I posted above it certainly sounds like you are pushing some sort of statist narrative for political purposes.

What is next, promotion of Obama's civilian defense force as a solution?

 

[Pericles]

It will be. I find it plausible and admissible if it's true that Zimmerman had violent tendencies or "wannabe cop" tendencies, that he may be charged with something. I also find it plausible and admissible if Trayvon tended to be a punk kid who sought "trouble."

From the evidence, it does seem to be the case that Trayvon was on top and was beating Zimmerman--that's kind of tough to deny. Did Zimmerman instigate it? That's more speculative, so I think it's going to be tough to make charges stick. If I were on the jury, I don't think I could say that Zimmerman's guilty of murder--but then again I'm not following it closely enough to know the subtleties.

The evidence that we should have, and has not been presented is the GPS data from both phones, which would show the paths both took from observation to encounter. We know the prosecution has this data from Martin's phone and did not turn it over to the defense, claiming it was lost.

 

[Ender]

The only extreme prejudice I see here is to the beliefs of individual liberty. Your posts and a few others on this subject have been consistently pro-statist.

Examples:

- Disparaging the concept of a private individual observing his community for crime prevention purposes in favor of official law enforcement.

- Complaining that Zimmerman was not a member of an official "national neighborhood watch".

- Promoting violation of the non-aggression principle. Posts believing that if the above occurs that the person being followed has a right to attack the follower or observer.

- Stating that there is no risk of death or injury if a stranger is on top of your beating you MMA style. Promoting that individuals do not have right of self defense and must allow themselves to be beaten waiting for official law enforcement.

- Repeated posts complaining that Zimmerman did not follow the advice of a government dispatcher at a non-emergency number. In addition repeating the false claim that it was a 911 emergency number. This is blatant promotion of statist obedience propaganda.

Posts like yours above that play the race card. Combined that with what I posted above it certainly sounds like you are pushing some sort of statist narrative for political purposes.

What is next, promotion of Obama's civilian defense force as a solution?

Well, that's a crock. There's not a pro-statist bone in my body.

I find it ironic that you and yours will accept anything Zimmerman says as fact while ignoring all the possibilities what might have really happened. I also find it ironic that so-called Ron Paul supporters find it perfectly alright to stalk and scare someone they find "suspicious". Seems to me that the "guilty until found innocent" crowd is in full support behind Zimmerman.

Zimmerman started the NW in that community; he wanted it even when the head of the HOA didn't feel they needed it. GZ took the training he begged for and then did not heed it.

The whole fight scenario from GZ does not jell. They were several feet away from the sidewalk- TM was found face down- his hands underneath him. Zimmerman sought no medical attention plus the blood on the back of his head is pointed DOWN toward his face, signifying he was on top. GZ is not "little"- he outweighed TM by at least 30-40 lbs. AND there is no TM DNA or fingerprints on the gun he supposedly grabbed.

I have no race-card; I am as the most unprejudiced person I know- it is YOU that keeps puling the race issue into this. It is GZ supporters that keep pulling the "cracker" statement up- even though GZ called Trayvon an asshole and his so-called "punk" statement sure sounded like "coon" to me.

So, keep supporting GZ, if that's your desire- I will continue to look at the screwed up "facts" and say what I feel in defense of TM.

Someone's got to do it- ain't no justice on this thread.

 

[The Free Hornet]

As I have mentioned before, Trayvon was immediately guilty on these forums because he wore a hoodie.

Was this before or after he was Obama's long lost 12 year old son?


*********************************

I find it ironic that you and yours will accept anything Zimmerman says as fact while ignoring all the possibilities what might have really happened.

It is possible Zimmerman concocted the perfect crime by calling the police ahead of time and relying on the blagosphere to defend him.

Possible. Not likely. Had Trayvon survived, he might have had testimony in which he pled for his life on his knees and defended against Zimmerman's brandished weapon which he was raising and swinging in "pistol whip" fashion for some odd reason. But we ought to consider facts and testimony as it exists, not as it might be.


*********************************

Zimmerman started the NW in that community; he wanted it even when the head of the HOA didn't feel they needed it. GZ took the training he begged for and then did not heed it.

In the absence of police, obey the HOA?

 

[KingNothing]

From a legal perspective, every single argument that people have made to implicate George Zimmerman on a murder two charge has been awful. All of them.

Zimmerman is a wanna-be cop, who was too-worried about crime, disregarded several guidelines for neighborhood watch, profiled Martin based on race and youth, and put himself in a situation that had no chance of ending well. But with all of that said, the fact that he had a busted face, witnesses stating that Martin was on top of him, and bruising on Martin's fists, there is absolutely no way that the prosecution has disproven the self defense claim. Anyone stating otherwise is delusional.

 

[KingNothing]

Zimmerman started the NW in that community; he wanted it even when the head of the HOA didn't feel they needed it. GZ took the training he begged for and then did not heed it.

That isn't a crime.

The whole fight scenario from GZ does not jell.

So? GZ doesn't have to prove anything. The state does.

TM was found face down- his hands underneath him.

Which lends credence to the witness testimony that TM was on top of GZ when GZ shot TM.

Zimmerman sought no medical attention

Totally irrelevant. No injuries are necessary for a self defense claim to be valid.

plus the blood on the back of his head is pointed DOWN toward his face, signifying he was on top.

That means nothing. Zimmerman may have only been on the ground for several seconds. He could have been punched several times in the face while TM was on top of him, as witness Goode testified, had his head banged-around in the process, then shot Martin.

GZ is not "little"- he outweighed TM by at least 30-40 lbs.

Irrelevant.

AND there is no TM DNA or fingerprints on the gun he supposedly grabbed.

I believe that Martin's fingerprints WERE actually found on part of the gun, but not his DNA.

So, keep supporting GZ, if that's your desire- I will continue to look at the screwed up "facts" and say what I feel in defense of TM.

Someone's got to do it- ain't no justice on this thread.

I think GZ is a piece of garbage, and I think that the state hasn't even come close to providing the evidence necessary to convict him of murder two. The two opinions are not mutually exclusive.

 

[jmdrake]

Your example is idiocy. if anything it applies to Trayvon much more than Zimmerman. Blaming Trayvon for being followed is like accusing your rape victim that is wearing a short skirt, low-cut blouse, and stilettos, of prostitution and therefore deserving of the consequences.

And just accepting Zimmerman's word that Martin jumped him is amazing to me- BTW- Martin's gun has NO prints or DNA from Martin.

Just sayin'.

I'm assuming you meant to say "Zimmerman's gun".

 

[Philhelm]

Zimmerman sought no medical attention plus the blood on the back of his head is pointed DOWN toward his face, signifying he was on top.

I saw the photos of Zimmerman's injuries on some news channel which had arrived to the same conclusion, which baffles me. Even relatively minor head injuries can bleed profusely, and if he stood up, or doubled over, gravity would take effect.

The fact that he did not seek treatment is also irrelevant. When I was in Basic Training, I took a metal hook to the head and didn't go to the hospital on post.

 

[green73]

I just killed somebody. I'm worried about my broken nose.

 

[green73]

Will I be deformed for life?

 

[RickyJ]

I moved toward the TM 'side" because of the extreme prejudice I have seen on almost all "conservative/libertarian" forums. As I have mentioned before, Trayvon was immediately guilty on these forums because he wore a hoodie. Some said that even if he wasn't the instigator, he was at fault because of his clothing. The prevalent racism and bias was amazing to me.

Because I have a weakness for the underdog, I did a lot of research into the case and found that Zimmerman's story was extremely questionable and that he was not the NW saint that most neocons were painting him to be, any more than TM was the hoodlum that everyone was trying to create.

BTW- the article that Antichism posted states that the judge has accepted Witness 9's statements into the evidence; should be very interesting.

When this news first broke the majority here assumed Zimmerman was in the wrong to shoot Trayvon so you obviously don't know what you are talking about. A hoodie has nothing to do with anything at all. I hope and pray females like you aren't on the jury.

 

[green73]

Here's one that bodes well for Ender et al.: Marvin was high on the reefer.

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/buster/trayvon-martin/trayvon-martin-marijuana-usage-657901

Who gets violent on the reefer?

 

[FrankRep]

Who gets violent on the reefer?

However, sometimes when marijuana is used it can cause fear, anxiety, panic or paranoia, which can result in an aggressive outburst.​

Marijuana: Factsheets: Aggression
http://adai.uw.edu/marijuana/factsheets/aggression.htm

 

[Ender]

When this news first broke the majority here assumed Zimmerman was in the wrong to shoot Trayvon so you obviously don't know what you are talking about. A hoodie has nothing to do with anything at all. I hope and pray females like you aren't on the jury.

I wasn't talking about this forum and I'm not female.

And, of course a hoodie has nothing to do with it- that's why it was so blinkin' irritating to have forums of people say he was guilty because of how he dressed.