The Zimmerman Trial

[Dr.3D]

using deadly force should be the LAST RESORT

A weakling wannabe loser like George is the poster child for banning guns, like it or not.

That was the last resort. What was he supposed to do, wait till he was unconscious before shooting him?

 

[liveandletlive]

That was the last resort. What was he supposed to do, wait till he was unconscious before shooting him?

The lowlife never heard of a taser?

 

[Dr.3D]

The lowlife never heard of a taser?

I doubt he had one of those on him. I don't carry one, but I do carry a pistol.

 

[MelissaWV]

The lowlife never heard of a taser?

Now you're kind of being silly. This implies that, in order to ensure the safety of someone who he got in a fight with, Zimmerman should have carried all varieties of force.

 

[Anti Federalist]

Wait...wut???

Wut the fuck is this shit????


Isn't she a little young for WWII?

Marine Watching Zimmerman Trial, Catches Officer Wearing Ribbon Reserved For WWII Vets

Wednesday, July 03, 2013

http://voxday.blogspot.com/2013/07/isnt-she-little-young-for-wwii.html

According to the article, Jeremiah Workman, a Marine who received the nations second highest honor, the Navy Cross was watching the Zimmerman trial when, Doris Singleton, a Sanford Police Officer took the stand. He noticed the ribbon rack she was wearing, and posted it to his facebook page. “Am I going blind or is this police officer in the Zimmerman -Martin trial wearing ribbons that she doesn’t rate?” he wrote alongside the photo he posted to Facebook.”

Two in particular stood out, he said: the World War II Army of Occupation and the Defense Distinguished Service Medal.

There is no two ways about it. The Badge Gang are, for the most part, murderous, corrupt, and shameless scum who aren't above stealing the valor of others. They fancy themselves "sojers" in a manner that is no more convincing than the posturings of rap stars and NFL players. Just listen to them talk about "civilians" as if they are not, by every possible definition, civilians themselves.

I'd like to say it is unbelievable, but it really isn't. If you're willing to gun down dogs, children, and unarmed men, I suppose wearing fake military medals is all in a day's work for a law enforcement officer.

 

[MelissaWV]

AF... see the other thread... you're going to want the rest of that story.

 

[BlackTerrel]

Sounds smart to me.

The kid was as big as any grown man. Much bigger and stronger than GZ.

GZ claims that he wasn't looking to confront him and TM attacked HIM first.

If you're not ready to face consequences then you shouldn't attack someone because they might be armed and be ready to defend themselves as GZ rightfully did.

If he wasn't looking to confront him then why did he exit his vehicle?

There have been cases of one punch killing a person, so would it then be okay to fear for your life and kill someone if they were trying to land a punch on you? Where would you draw the line, personally?

There have been cases where sex kills someone... but it's not bloody likely. I've known plenty of people in fistfights and it's never resulted in permanent injury. I've known only a couple people to be shot and more often than not it leads to death or permanent injury.


...for the record if Zim was a cop would y'alls view on this be different? I've seen multiple threads where someone is wielding a knife and 99% of the forum is opposed to the cop shooting them. If a cop can't shoot an adult armed with a knife why can Zim shoot a 17 year old armed with his fists?

 

[MelissaWV]

If the cop were actually getting stabbed, I'm pretty sure a lot of the forum members would have to bow down and admit that the cop was likely justified in shooting. If the cop just shot someone standing there with a knife --- which is often the type of story posted here --- then yeah there's a large question of whether or not that is excessive force, especially if the knife is only aimed at the person holding it.

Likewise, it does not appear that Martin was shot for threatening with his fists, or just being armed with them. He was shot as he was beating on someone and as that someone felt Martin was reaching for the gun. It's a distinctly different situation.

Should he have gotten out of his car? Not in my opinion, but I also don't think GZ should lie there thinking "Well, I got out of my car, so I'm just going to weakly deflect his punches and not retaliate with this weapon I carry for self-defense. I totally deserve getting my nose smashed and my head scraped for getting out of my car."

 

[matt0611]

If he wasn't looking to confront him then why did he exit his vehicle?

I heard him say he got out to find out where exactly he was.

But even if he did leave to confront him. Its NOT against the law to approach someone and ask questions.

 

[Neil Desmond]

If he wasn't looking to confront him then why did he exit his vehicle?

There's plenty of reasons for exiting a vehicle if you're neighborhood watch (especially when there has been problem of burlaries) and you don't recognize someone, such as if there's no road to drive on and to see where that person's going or to see if that person is trying to do anything.

There have been cases where sex kills someone... but it's not bloody likely. I've known plenty of people in fistfights and it's never resulted in permanent injury.

http://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2...eferee-dead/qI1nZYQR0wiFl4K3o7GfLI/story.html

I've known only a couple people to be shot and more often than not it leads to death or permanent injury.

I knew someone in high school who shot himself in the neck and lived.

...for the record if Zim was a cop would y'alls view on this be different? I've seen multiple threads where someone is wielding a knife and 99% of the forum is opposed to the cop shooting them. If a cop can't shoot an adult armed with a knife why can Zim shoot a 17 year old armed with his fists?

There's like a small handful of like a half dozen people on this forum, very noisy people, who are like that, and my thinking is that a good portion of those individuals are just frustrated because they broke some law and got caught & thrown in jail (or maybe someone close to them was).

If Zimmerman wanted to shoot and kill Trayvon just for punching him I would think he would've done it after the first couple punches. From the evidence it seems Trayvon was punching him for a long stretch of time for that to be the case. Apparently Trayvon was about to go for Zimmerman's gun and it was at that point that Zimmerman went for it and shot him.

 

[Antischism]

If he wasn't looking to confront him then why did he exit his vehicle?



There have been cases where sex kills someone... but it's not bloody likely. I've known plenty of people in fistfights and it's never resulted in permanent injury. I've known only a couple people to be shot and more often than not it leads to death or permanent injury.


...for the record if Zim was a cop would y'alls view on this be different? I've seen multiple threads where someone is wielding a knife and 99% of the forum is opposed to the cop shooting them. If a cop can't shoot an adult armed with a knife why can Zim shoot a 17 year old armed with his fists?

My point was that it's difficult to ever say when a person can justly fear for their life given that these freak occurrences do happen. It's possible for a person to fear their life is in danger from a single punch due to these cases, but does that then mean they're justified in shooting someone to death? Where is the line drawn, if at all? How does someone ever really know their life is in clear danger if they're being attacked? Anyone can try to justify killing another if they cite "fear of death," but how does one truly ever know outside of a situation where a weapon is being used against you such as a knife or a gun?

It's difficult to define such a law when anyone can pick a fight, then fall back on their gun when they're getting their ass handed to them. Perhaps Zimmerman wouldn't have made the approach of he didn't have that gun holstered by his side. I'm not sure. I do know that it's an interesting case, and both parties appear to have been at fault.

 

[matt0611]

My point was that it's difficult to ever say when a person can justly fear for their life given that these freak occurrences do happen. It's possible for a person to fear their life is in danger from a single punch due to these cases, but does that then mean they're justified in shooting someone to death? Where is the line drawn, if at all? How does someone ever really know their life is in clear danger if they're being attacked? Anyone can try to justify killing another if they cite "fear of death," but how does one truly ever know outside of a situation where a weapon is being used against you such as a knife or a gun?

It's difficult to define such a law when anyone can pick a fight, then fall back on their gun when they're getting their ass handed to them. Perhaps Zimmerman wouldn't have made the approach of he didn't have that gun holstered by his side. I'm not sure. I do know that it's an interesting case, and both parties appear to have been at fault.

How is it Zimmerman's fault if he didn't start the fight? (assuming that is true). Its been 60 pages and this question STILL has not been answered.

Say I see you looking into people's houses as you walk down my street (just for the sake of argument assume this is true), I'm armed.

I pull over on the side of the road and walk down the street to approach you and I ask you you some questions, if you live around here, who you are, where you're going etc

I'm not touching you or threatening you, I'm talking to you human to human, I wanna see if everything is OK and perhaps if you're up to no good since there has been some burglaries in the area.

You then attack me first because you're offended that I would approach you and ask you questions.

You end up on top of me and punch me at least few times.

I fear for my life at this point and pull out my gun to shoot you while you're on top of me.

How am I at fault?

 

[Contumacious]

. Perhaps Zimmerman wouldn't have made the approach of he didn't have that gun holstered by his side. I'm not sure. I do know that it's an interesting case, and both parties appear to have been at fault.

This was a GATED COMMUNITY - under Florida access is controlled

People are attracted towards the security, privacy and comfort issues associated with a Florida gated community. Most of the gated communities in the United States are located in California and Florida with Palm Beach County housing most of them. There are highly luxurious ones to simple affordable communities. But, security is still a main concern where the entry is restricted to the residents alone who can open the main gate using the access card, key or other secure methods. Visitors can gain entry only after being authorized with a passcode or by the security guard. This is very essential especially in traveler dense areas where the risk of theft and crime is increasing in US.

 

[kahless]

How is it Zimmerman's fault if he didn't start the fight? (assuming that is true). Its been 60 pages and this question STILL has not been answered.

Say I see you looking into people's houses as you walk down my street (just for the sake of argument assume this is true), I'm armed.

I pull over on the side of the road and walk down the street to approach you and I ask you you some questions, if you live around here, who you are, where you're going etc

I'm not touching you or threatening you, I'm talking to you human to human, I wanna see if everything is OK and perhaps if you're up to no good since there has been some burglaries in the area.

You then attack me first because you're offended that I would approach you and ask you questions.

You end up on top of me and punch me at least few times.

I fear for my life at this point and pull out my gun to shoot you while you're on top of me.

How am I at fault?

Interesting isn't it. The same logical responses such as yours being repeated over and over again. Responses move onto some other exaggeration of the facts or something completely anti-liberty in an RPF forum by long time members.

There is a clear pattern here with a narrative being presented that self defense, using a weapon in self defense and private security are abhorrent. Even neighborhood watch offends them unless it part of an official national program.

The point of this narrative sounds to me like it will eventually justify Obama's civilian defense force. That was the whole point of picking this case.

Hmmm, COINTEL on RPF? I wonder where they are getting their talking points from or who is paying them.

 

[Weston White]

Fact: Zimmerman (regardless as to his neighborhood watch status) had every right to follow and even profile Trayvon as a black person—Zimmerman was/is not an employee of the government.

Fact: The intentions of Zimmerman started off good and with no nefarious presence—having contacted the police to have the suspicious character checked out, while following at a bit of a distance, presumably.

Fact: Zimmerman screamed for help many times over.

Fact: Nobody came to the aid of Zimmerman after he began yelling for help.

Fact: Trayvon did not cease his battering of Zimmerman at any point after Zimmerman began screaming his head off.

Fact: Trayvon is not a little child, he was 5’11” and 165 pounds of young man—and moreover, who was an athletic football player that knew how to take somebody down with ease.

Fact: The only one of either Trayvon or Zimmerman that has expressed blatant signs of racism is Trayvon.

Fact: Zimmerman’s accounts largely match up with the accounts of several neighborhood witnesses—there exists only a few minor discrepancies between each of their own versions, which has mostly to do with them trying to make sense of the incident from the random point in time when it caught their attention enough to actually look or step outside.

Fact: A pry-bar/jimmy was located nearby in the bushes—although it is unknown if Trayvon had dumped the object there or not prior to him jumping Zimmerman.

Fact: Zimmerman was knocked down onto the grass along a cement walkway resulting in a broken nose, meanwhile having his head relentlessly bashed and battered by a self-acclaimed “gangster” Trayvon for approximately six or more times on all sides, and also who maintained the dominate position throughout.

Fact: The only injury Trayvon sustained, aside from the GSW, was a couple of chafed up knuckles.

Fact: Zimmerman, was alone in total darkness with a large black male, who was a complete stranger to him and that had been acting suspicious and oddly prior to commencing an all out assault on his person.

Fact: If Trayvon was truly scared of the rapist, creeping-cracker-stalker, or whatever, then Trayvon had ample opportunities himself to run off using the landscaping to his advantage and hide—or to even return home and call 911 as he was right next to his father’s townhouse anyway—from Zimmerman who was driving a vehicle and would not have been able to keep up with him.

Fact: Prior to Zimmerman having walked down the “T” dog-walk to supposedly locate the name of the street, he had observed Trayvon walk quickly or run off down it nearly one-minute before him—thusly, Zimmerman had a reasonable expectation that Trayvon had ran off to flee from the area and vision of Zimmerman and was no longer in his immediate area.

Fact: Trayvon instead of running away to seek shelter and safety, to alert an adult of his recent experience, he opted to hide and confront Zimmerman at the top of the “T” dog-walk as Zimmerman was walking back to his vehicle.

Fact: Given the totality of the situation and the callous disregard of Trayvon’s actions, Zimmerman had every right to setup his counter-offensive to the use of deadly force—without regard to Trayvon’s status as a juvenile.

Fact: Given all facts admitted into evidence the charge of second degree murder is wholly inappropriate, on its best day this case is manslaughter at the most—the case is purely political and nothing more. So much so that the states own witnesses—including the detectives handling the case—have benefited the defense so much more than the prosecution.

Fact: The prosecution is so desperate over this case that they attempted to conceal evidence during discovery from the defense; it took a whistleblower to expose this, and he is consequently being punished for his honest actions.


ETA:


Fact: No evidence has been entered concerning the clothing Trayvon was wearing so far as it had been stretched, ripped, torn, pulled, or marked up in anyway, excluding the GSW holes and dirt and grass stains. Indicating that he could have ran away from Zimmerman at any point in time, such as when Zimmerman had began screaming, for example.

Fact: As to dirt or grass stains being entered into evidence, Zimmerans backside was largely covered in grass and all wet, while the knee area of Trayvon's pants were stained by dirt and grass.

 

[tmg19103]

ABC Chief Legal Affairs Anchor and Mediaite founder Dan Abrams told Good Morning America on Saturday that the prosecution in the Zimmerman trial had failed to make its case.

This before the defense has put its case on. The last prosecution's last witness - their county medical examiner, was a confused, disrespectful, contradicting and lying joke. Zimmerman's defense team has one of the most highly regarded expert witness medical examiners yet to come - along with a list of 134 potential defense witnesses, but the prosecution case was so weak with most of the prosecution witnesses helping Zimmerman that I expect his defense lawyer to keep things short and sweet while just tying up loose ends.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g96M4076_DU

 

[devil21]

ABC Chief Legal Affairs Anchor and Mediaite founder Dan Abrams told Good Morning America on Saturday that the prosecution in the Zimmerman trial had failed to make its case.

This before the defense has put its case on. The last prosecution's last witness - their county medical examiner, was a confused, disrespectful, contradicting and lying joke. Zimmerman's defense team has one of the most highly regarded expert witness medical examiners yet to come - along with a list of 134 potential defense witnesses, but the prosecution case was so weak with most of the prosecution witnesses helping Zimmerman that I expect his defense lawyer to keep things short and sweet while just tying up loose ends.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g96M4076_DU

If it honestly appears that the state didn't prove it's case then defense should just motion for dismissal on lack of evidence and end the damn thing. There's no requirement for the defense to even put up a defense if the state's case is that flimsy.

 

[Neil Desmond]

If it honestly appears that the state didn't prove it's case then defense should just motion for dismissal on lack of evidence and end the damn thing. There's no requirement for the defense to even put up a defense if the state's case is that flimsy.

Defense did motion for dismissal & judge has denied the request.

 

[TheTexan]

My point was that it's difficult to ever say when a person can justly fear for their life given that these freak occurrences do happen. It's possible for a person to fear their life is in danger from a single punch due to these cases, but does that then mean they're justified in shooting someone to death? Where is the line drawn, if at all?

I would say getting your head smashed onto the pavement is a fairly good line to draw. Punches don't really kill people very often, but blunt objects certainly do

 

[devil21]

Defense did motion for dismissal & judge has denied the request.

Ah ok thanks. Figures.