The Revolution needs you to vote for Obama

[Warrior_of_Freedom]

You people are god damned ridiculous, you are seriously ocnsidering voting for one of the two MSM candidates? Shame on you, on the Ron Paul forums? Fucking shame on all of you, I don't want you people representing me, get the fuck out, right now.

 

[gls]

You underestimate Obama's chances of failure if elected. His followers think he's anti-war, will end racism, will fight for regular people. They aren't as stupid as you think they are. They want change and when Obama fails to provide it they will be bitter. That benefits the real agents of change, the Revolution.

They want big, centralized government. He will provide them with that and they will be happy. What they won't do is abandon their entire worldview and embrace a movement that in many, many ways is diametrically opposed to what they have long been fighting for.

 

[ShowMeLiberty]

Your logic makes no sense. Obama supporters want big government. If he wins, he will give them big government. Why you think that his supporters would turn around and join a movement toward Constitutionally limited-government - when they have shown nothing but disdain for it all along - is beyond me.

He has already sold out his supporters when it comes to war and civil liberties, and all they do is make excuses for him. An Obama presidency would be more of the same. It's much easier to be an apologist and redirect the blame than to admit one was wrong. It has already started and would continue throughout his administration.

QFT

This November I'm casting my vote for a 3rd party for two reasons.

1. It is the only real way to show that I reject both the Democrat and Republican big government, less freedom agendas.

2. I strongly support breaking the two party stranglehold and giving other parties a more level playing field, thereby giving Americans more choices. My vote this year will be one step in that direction.

 

[zadrock]

I have been thinking quite a bit about how the next President will affect our movement, especially after Palin's speech last night. For a long time now, I felt that an Obama win would be "good" for our movement, while being bad for the country. A first-term President almost always loses seats in the mid-term elections (2002 being a recent exception), and I imagined 2010 would be kinda like 1994. Two years of Democratic control and failure could lead to widespread voting for Republicans. The real issue would then be whether the Republican candidates put forth for Congress/Senate in 2010 are RP Republicans or neocons.

On the other hand, a McCain win would further anger Democrats, as the OP pointed out. When 2010 rolls around, knowing that two more years of McCain are left, their focus would be to obtain veto-proof margins in the House and Senate. However, the question in this scenario is who is blamed for the worsening economy - the President or Congress? McCain should be slightly better for our economy, assuming he really does stop spending increases and prevents tax increases (although i'm not sure he could do anything about the Bush cuts expiring). But if we are in some other war, McCain and the neocons may get the benefit of the doubt.

It's clear that we will need different strategies, depending on who is President. I do think having Obama in the White House would make it easier for our type of candidates to get elected, but I can't say that for sure, so I see no point in adjusting my vote on that basis. While it may be the more "strategic" move, I'm not sure this is something that many of us want on our conscience. Whoever wins, we'll just have to adjust our strategy and figure out what works. In the meantime (2009), we should be strong in local elections.

Z

 

[phree]

First, what message do we send to our fellow fighters for freedom and those casual observers out there if we abandon our principles and help to elect someone like Obama? No matter what reason you give, it will always seem like a temper tantrum to those on the outside looking in.

The message is do what advances the cause, use logic instead of emotion.

Second, If there is one massive lesson that I have learned from all of this it would be that I do not have to hold my nose and vote for the lesser of two evils. I will never enter a voting booth again and cast my vote for who I think might destroy America least.

I'm not suggesting voting for Obama because he's the lesser evil (reread original post). I'm saying that if he loses that his followers will remain united and the result will be an ongoing "battle" between red and blue which will only detract from our message and weaken our cause.

Third, Ron Paul is right. Our best bet to get real change is through the Republican party. How many Bush Republicans out there woke up and realized what was going on? How many more are going to wake up when McCain goes down in flames in November? We need to stay the course and focus our energy on bringing the Republican party back to it's roots. If we stay Republicans and stay involved in the Republican party than we are going to slowly increase our leverage within that party. If we abandon the party and come back a few years from now than they are going to blackball us even more than they did this time. We need to keep making noise and always abide by our principles because they will not be able to ignore us forever and they will not want to ignore us when the Democrats run wild on them this November.

Obama's followers will need to go somewhere when their messiah betrays them. Most of us left other parties or joined the GOP for the first time to support RP. We need to rebuild the GOP our way and to do that we need people. If Obama loses his people stay united behind him. If he wins a large number of them will defect as they realize his true nature and many of those people may join the GOP to support Ron Paul Republicans.

Fourth, Obama is basically worshipped in this country.. do you honestly think he needs our help?

I don't think he's certain to win. Besides, the more he wins by, the harder his fall will be. Obama must be defeated completely and that can only happen if he wins.

 

[Roxi]

look i get where your coming from i do, but if you research obama you realize he is almost as evil, and will hurt this country as much as mccain...

why not rally around barr or baldwin instead?

im holding my nose and voting for barr, because hes at least the lesser of 3 evils

 

[phree]

Don't be an idiot.

Refute my logic, don't be so emotional.

 

[-lotus-]

I'm not high or stupid. I'm thinking in terms of what will grow the revolution in the fastest way. Protest votes and votes for McCain won't do that.

Sometimes people need to be shocked to realize the need for (real) change. The best person to win this election is arguably the worst candidate, Obama.

The people of this country are already shocked. Everytime they fill up their cars, or go to the grocery store, or when they see all the for sale signs in their neighborhood. People dont need promises of change. They need action now. Giving up and letting socialism breed, even for just 4 years is exactly what we DONT need to do. Once you let something like that get started it will never be gotten rid of. It becomes entrenched in Government and becomes permanent.

Now, dont get me wrong. Im not saying that either of the 2 MSM candidates are the answer, but at the same time, abandoning all of our work to establish a foothold inside the Republican party isnt realistic either. Id rather see another neocon Republican in the White House then be party to allowing socialism to gain a stronger position in this country.

 

[phree]

Phree,

Here's my logic when faced with war (McCain) or socialism (Obama):

An anti-war "faction" is much easier to grow than an anti-socialism one. Once you go socialist, it is hard to go back because of the welfare characteristics of socialism. Big picture/long term, I think Obama could fuck us over far worse than McCain...although I am completely undecided as to where to cast my vote at the moment (and no I will not just be picking between Obama and McCain). Definitely not Obama, though.

Just as it is childish to vote for Obama to spite the GOP...it seems far more reckless to vote for Obama to "let america crumble" or "let them see how bad it can get".

I am open to hearing everyone's arguments and would love it if we could all get on the same page...who knows, maybe it is I that am on the wrong one...but I thought I would let everyone know my opinion on the matter as of today.

I don't agree with your comparing war to socialism. Do you think Obama will lessen our aggressive interventionist policies? He wants to expand our military and expand it's operations abroad.

I personally don't think McCain would be any better than Obama for our country. It seems to me they work for the same bosses so I don't differentiate between their likely actions. The difference I see is that Obama has inspired a huge number of Americans and therefore our country will benefit if that newly inspired group of voters sees that Obama is just a regular lying politician just like McCain who they hated so much.

 

[surf]

The Revolution needs Obama's supporters to see first hand what he will do with their support. When they see that Obama has sold them out, they will finally realize that real change is necessary and possible, and they will look for a genuine vehicle for change, The Revolution.

before you get angry, phree, i read your message. your logic is flawed. have Rs been appalled at what W has done? no, they chose his clone to follow in his footsteps and blamed everything bad on the Ds. Will Ds be appalled at what Obama does? no, they'll cling to Obama and blame all ill on the Rs (rather than looking for a revolutionary alternative). i mean, most of us aren't R party regulars that defected.

respecting phree's reasoning here, the only way to send a message of hope for the revolution is to vote for a better candidate. if there are enough of us that decide that neither of the big party candidates are worthy (imagine if we could split 10% among the various "other" candidates), that would send a bigger message than a large majority for Obama will.

 

[pacelli]

What does that mean?

It means that I will not vote for a party that practices the 10 planks of the Communist manifesto.

 

[ShowMeLiberty]

before you get angry, phree, i read your message. your logic is flawed. have Rs been appalled at what W has done? no, they chose his clone to follow in his footsteps and blamed everything bad on the Ds. Will Ds be appalled at what Obama does? no, they'll cling to Obama and blame all ill on the Rs (rather than looking for a revolutionary alternative). i mean, most of us aren't R party regulars that defected.

respecting phree's reasoning here, the only way to send a message of hope for the revolution is to vote for a better candidate. if there are enough of us that decide that neither of the big party candidates are worthy (imagine if we could split 10% among the various "other" candidates), that would send a bigger message than a large majority for Obama will.

+ 100

Well said.

 

[libertythor]

I am sorry, but I can't do that. The movement can't grow if it is supporting any pro-big government candidate, so I will be voting for Barr.

 

[hillertexas]

... our country will benefit if that newly inspired group of voters sees that Obama is just a regular lying politician just like McCain who they hated so much.

Must he win the presidency to be "outed" as a regular lying politician? We could target those new voters but must we vote for Obama as well? There is already a lot of shadiness surrounding Obama.

Also, I am starting to have a hard time buying that Obama will win the general election...especially by a landslide. I spent the week of the Dems convention lurking around on their forums and such...and a lot of the Hillary supporters are voting for McCain. And then there are the polls...which should be Obama like 70% and McCain 30%...but they are fairly even. Then there is the fact that young people typically don't vote as much. They will hold signs and go to rallies...but will they go out and vote? I think the race between McCain and Obama is going to much closer that people think.

 

[phree]

They want big, centralized government. He will provide them with that and they will be happy. What they won't do is abandon their entire worldview and embrace a movement that in many, many ways is diametrically opposed to what they have long been fighting for.

As I mentioned in my OP it's best to see my point by imaging what will happen if Obama loses.

If he loses he becomes a martyr of sorts and the red/blue battle will drone on while our freedoms disappear.

If he wins we (and the GOP) will have endless ammunition to illustrate his failures and lies. It's crucial that we expose him as the false profit he is, and we can only do that if he takes the office.

If you watch the Daily Show you've noticed that they aren't all that friendly to Obama. President Obama will end up looking like a fool compared to what he promised his devoted followers. He will be lampooned, he will lose credibility, and those factors will ultimately help grow our cause.

The replies in this thread are making me think you all believe Obama will be somewhat successful as President. I happen to think he would fail miserably and obviously.

 

[libertythor]

Must he win the presidency to be "outed" as a regular lying politician? We could target those new voters but must we vote for Obama as well? There is already a lot of shadiness surrounding Obama.

Exactly. And figures like Obama are what often lead to future dictatorships.

Salvador Allende ------------ Agustin Pinochet Is a great example.

 

[Rhys]

The Revolution needs you to kiss my ass about this one. Sorry bro.

 

[libertythor]

I refuse to vote for the BHO or the son of Cain!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[phree]

look i get where your coming from i do, but if you research obama you realize he is almost as evil, and will hurt this country as much as mccain...

why not rally around barr or baldwin instead?

im holding my nose and voting for barr, because hes at least the lesser of 3 evils

Hi roxic, it's Jerry from the New London OLFD house.

I've researched Obama and I think he's worse than McCain, mostly because of his huge and dedicated following, and because a smooth bullshitter is more dangerous than a bad one. It's scary actually. I want to see him utterly defeated and if he loses this election his followers will only be more energized. The only way to see him fall is to give the office.

I've always said I would vote as RP suggested, but this is more logical. Btw, RP could never support what I'm saying for political reasons, but that doesn't mean he wouldn't agree with me.

 

[Rhys]

Hi roxic, it's Jerry from the New London OLFD house.

I've researched Obama and I think he's worse than McCain, mostly because of his huge and dedicated following, and because a smooth bullshitter is more dangerous than a bad one. It's scary actually. I want to see him utterly defeated and if he loses this election his followers will only be more energized. The only way to see him fall is to give the office.

I've always said I would vote as RP suggested, but this is more logical. Btw, RP could never support what I'm saying for political reasons, but that doesn't mean he wouldn't agree with me.

This is really.... out there? give Obama office so his retarded supporters don't hurt themselves? The dems can't win anyway. Who cares about how energized they get... they suck at life. That's why they're asking Obama to do it all for them. If he loses, maybe they'll realize how retarded they are... the opposite of what you think.

Quit rationalizing it. Just go plug a Obama pin on your lapel and go Hope for Change.