The image microsoft doesn't want you to see

[Sentient Void]

Sounds like *waaaaay* too much knee-jerk emotional reactions going on here and not enough education in economics nor liberty. I applaud those in this thread defending liberty and the free market to such ignorant comments.

First and foremost - protectionism is never ever ever *EVER* good - for ANYONE. By instituting protectionist tariffs/regulations on other nations, for whatever reason - you're less able to buy from them and give them money in order to buy more from you. Not only that, but you would be punishing efficient production and subsidizing inferior businesses here, rewarding unproductive business. On top of that, you end up spending much more of your money on the same product as opposed to otherwise - whereas that money would have been freed up to buy other goods and services - helping to create/maintain other more productive jobs here and abroad as well. The only people being helped are those inefficient unproductive VERY few in the unproductive company(s) you're trying to help, at the expense of *EVERYONE ELSE*, domestic and foreign. Such lobbying for protectionist tariffs/regulations, naturally - is virtually always done by the industries who are hurting because they can't compete either due to bad management or restrictive/stifling govt regulations/taxes. These are the simple, basic arguments against protectionism. In the end, you're raising the costs of living for *EVERYONE*, and in turn lowering the standard of living.

Secondly, THIS :

You do realize that there's such a mad clamor among the Chinese peasantry to get factory jobs like this because the pay is actually better and the work safer and easier than life on their subsistence farms, right?

Why do you hate the Chinese so much, that you want to deny them even the smallest improvements in their quality of life by refusing to trade with them?

Thirdly, THIS VIDEO sums it up pretty well... great find! :

YouTube - John Stossel : Sweatshops

Ahhh... I love John Stossel. What a breath of fresh air amongst all the ignorant noise out there.

And, for all those SUPPOSED libertarians in this thread who are against true capitalism... this :

http://www.libertarianstandard.com/2010/04/21/four-questions-for-anti-capitalist-libertarians/

 

[TheBlackPeterSchiff]

Shit, I used to work night shift at a data center and I would look just like them.

 

[erowe1]

Just because you don't see the tangible shackles doesn't mean they aren't there. If the only option is a job thatpays next to nothing that is better than nothing. This is what the corporate vultures pray on.

So the alternative is to take away someone's "only option"?

I'd call the anti-sweatshop busybodies who want to do that the vultures. Compared to those self-righteous hate mongers, the corporations giving these poor people jobs actually look pretty altruistic.

 

[Brian4Liberty]

We must have near slave labor so that Bill Gates can have a bigger profit margin. Gates really needs that money. Not that he wants to spend it. His vast wealth gives him the clout to attend all the global Oligarchy meetings and further his new world agenda, including pushing for the use of taxpayer money to help support all these poor, abused people in the third world. Future generations can worship at shrines to Gates and his superior business genius and limitless benevolence.

 

[Akus]

Microsoft should be proud of using sweat shops.

This sort of thing should shame us into getting rid of our minimum wage laws, OSHA, and every other regulation we have that prevents unemployed Americans who would like to offer their labor under such conditions from being able to do so.

You do understand that if this happens, instead of DonWang, this picture will be taken in St. Louis or Phoenix, don't you?

 

[Akus]

Microsoft should be proud of using sweat shops.

This sort of thing should shame us into getting rid of our minimum wage laws, OSHA, and every other regulation we have that prevents unemployed Americans who would like to offer their labor under such conditions from being able to do so.

You do understand that if this happens, instead of Dongguan, this picture will be taken in St. Louis or Phoenix, don't you?

 

[erowe1]

You do understand that if this happens, instead of DonWang, this picture will be taken in St. Louis or Phoenix, don't you?

As it should. Right now something like 17% of our population is unemployed. Many of those unemployed people would be willing to offer their labor under conditions that are below the standards our paternalistic government allows them to offer it. This intervention on the part of the government is totally unethical. I have trouble seeing how anybody can rationalize it.

 

[sratiug]

Sounds like *waaaaay* too much knee-jerk emotional reactions going on here and not enough education in economics nor liberty. I applaud those in this thread defending liberty and the free market to such ignorant comments.

First and foremost - protectionism is never ever ever *EVER* good - for ANYONE. By instituting protectionist tariffs/regulations on other nations, for whatever reason - you're less able to buy from them and give them money in order to buy more from you. Not only that, but you would be punishing efficient production and subsidizing inferior businesses here, rewarding unproductive business. On top of that, you end up spending much more of your money on the same product as opposed to otherwise - whereas that money would have been freed up to buy other goods and services - helping to create/maintain other more productive jobs here and abroad as well. The only people being helped are those inefficient unproductive VERY few in the unproductive company(s) you're trying to help, at the expense of *EVERYONE ELSE*, domestic and foreign. Such lobbying for protectionist tariffs/regulations, naturally - is virtually always done by the industries who are hurting because they can't compete either due to bad management or restrictive/stifling govt regulations/taxes. These are the simple, basic arguments against protectionism. In the end, you're raising the costs of living for *EVERYONE*, and in turn lowering the standard of living.

Secondly, THIS :



Thirdly, THIS VIDEO sums it up pretty well... great find! :



Ahhh... I love John Stossel. What a breath of fresh air amongst all the ignorant noise out there.

And, for all those SUPPOSED libertarians in this thread who are against true capitalism... this :

http://www.libertarianstandard.com/2010/04/21/four-questions-for-anti-capitalist-libertarians/

If we pay internal taxes here to subsidize the situation as it is, that is even more "protectionist" than using a flat tariff. It is just that the "protection" is going to foreign corporations and foreign workers who pay no American taxes.

 

[moostraks]

So the alternative is to take away someone's "only option"?

I'd call the anti-sweatshop busybodies who want to do that the vultures. Compared to those self-righteous hate mongers, the corporations giving these poor people jobs actually look pretty altruistic.

I lol'd until I realized you were serious.

The solution is that the business men at the top of the food chain need the labor to produce in order for them to keep cash flow occuring. Unlike the fear mongering being professed in order to get people to accept the crap conditions or all the rich people will withdraw and go home, type a personalities need a place to vent or they drive those around them insane. They thrive on power and retiring is rarely as rewarding as being the big dog in charge for these types.

People should not be encouraged to merely crouch and lick the hand that feeds them when it has become a tyrannical monstrocity. Global corporations are vultures and not much better than the pimps these ladies were employed by prior to their freedom to work in 'sweatshops'. Just because one spouse beats you a bit less then the previous one doesn't make it right....

 

[Akus]

As it should. Right now something like 17% of our population is unemployed. Many of those unemployed people would be willing to offer their labor under conditions that are below the standards our paternalistic government allows them to offer it. This intervention on the part of the government is totally unethical. I have trouble seeing how anybody can rationalize it.

because it's thinly veiled slavery
because you don't have a choice if you want to work at this factory or somewhere else
because you have no opportunity to advance as an individual as you will be stamping these mice for the rest of your life

 

[tpreitzel]

Slap massive tariffs on the products of these multinational corporations ... products of big government everywhere. Repeal statutory law by the ton and allow local markets to become more free as corporations are dissolved voluntarily or involuntarily within our borders. The tariffs will hurt the multinational corporations while allowing localized markets to become more free, i.e. our markets won't have to contend with the products of multinational corporations subsidized by other governments.

 

[erowe1]

If we pay internal taxes here to subsidize the situation as it is, that is even more "protectionist" than using a flat tariff. It is just that the "protection" is going to foreign corporations and foreign workers who pay no American taxes American consumers, including businesses which employ American workers.

Fixed it.

But I agree with you. We still need to get rid of our internal taxes, and I'd take tariffs over them any day.

 

[MelissaWV]

Dongguan comes to terms with the new economic reality

Dongguan, the vast Pearl River Delta boomtown that became known as the “factory of the world,” is no longer booming. Factories lie empty and abandoned, shops are boarded up, building sites are silent, cafes and restaurants have hardly any customers. The city has certainly not gone bust but there can be little doubt that, for the time being at least, the good times are over.

In Tangxia, southeastern Dongguan, locals estimate that over the last year one third of the factories have closed down and one third of the township’s estimated half million migrant workers have left. Many migrants stayed in Tangxia over the Lunar New Year in the hope that jobs might open up after the holiday but in the end they packed their bags and went back to their home towns.

The only migrants who returned to Dongguan after the New Year were those who were certain of employment. Even some of those who could find jobs apparently elected to stay behind in their home towns because wages in Dongguan were no longer significantly higher than at home. Moreover, the cost of living in inland provinces was much lower than in Dongguan and by staying at home migrants could make up for lost time with their family after being separated for years on end.

The manager of recruitment centre in central Nancheng district said wages for semi-skilled and experienced workers in particular had fallen dramatically. “Someone earning 3,000 yuan a month last year could expect to get 1,500 yuan this year,” he said. One recruitment advertisement for a nurse offered only 1,400 yuan a month. Unskilled factory workers said their wages had also fallen but not by such a great margin. Assembly line workers could still earn around 1,000 yuan a month, they said. The minimum wage in Dongguan is currently frozen at 770 yuan a month, based on a 40 hour working week, or 7.4 yuan an hour for casual workers.

Today’s migrant workers are very well informed through their extensive text and email networks and clearly understand the vicissitudes of the labour market. They will not waste time and effort looking for work in places where they know there is none. As such there is no vast army of laid-off workers roaming the streets of Dongguan looking for work. Neither do those who have jobs blame the boss for their lower wages and harder conditions. Thanks to exhaustive coverage in the Chinese media, everyone knows about the global economic crisis and they generally accept that times are going to be tough for the foreseeable future. As a rule, protests have only erupted when factories have closed and workers have been laid off with several months’ wages still owing. If they still have a job, most workers seem willing, for the time being at least, to accept pay cuts. However if the salaries offered cannot a provide living wage in Dongguan, and other benefits are cut back, dissatisfaction will obviously begin to rise.

Despite the economic slowdown, many factories, especially those supplying the domestic market, are still doing well and employing large numbers of workers. Several factories in the sprawling electronics district of Liaobu township still have recruitment (zhaopin 招聘) notices posted at their main gates. They specify age and occasionally height requirements and a willingness to work hard. From time to time, small groups of migrants stop to take a look at the notices. They make inquiries about pay and conditions, call their friends on their mobile phones and decide as a group whether or not to apply.

Younger workers generally have a relatively carefree attitude are still picking and choosing which jobs to take up. Older workers, those over 30, and those with families to support are becoming increasingly desperate for work and are willing to accept anything they can get.

Security guards at factories that were hiring said that on average up to one hundred hopefuls turn up each day looking for work, sometimes more, sometimes less. At the recruitment centres, staff said the number people applying for jobs was actually down from last year.

In Tangxia, the new economic reality is exemplified by the gleaming exhibition centre in the township’s newly built administrative district on the outskirts of town, which stands in stark contrast to the dilapidated factories around it. The exhibition hall records the township’s miraculous growth over the last two decades from small town to huge industrial zone containing over 1,200 foreign funded enterprises producing a vast array of manufactured goods and services. All the economic indictors displayed in the exhibition show spectacular year-on-year growth but staff candidly admitted the figures for 2009 and would look very different.

Teachers at one of Tangxia’s adult education institutes were equally pragmatic. The number students enrolling in classes was significantly down, they said, but classes were still going ahead with students particularly keen to improve their English and computer skills. While staff at the township’s luxury Good View Hotel resort said they had not experienced a significant drop in business with many guests from Hong Kong and the mainland still arriving every weekend.

But the people who seemed most relaxed about the economic situation were three teenage workers from Fujian who had traveled by themselves to Guangdong in search of work. One had found a job at an electronic circuit board factory in Huizhou where he had worked for just six days before hoping on a bus to hang out with his friends on the streets of Tangxia. All three teenagers were aware of the difficulty of finding work but said that having fun was more important

So, basically, they're making minimum wage...

How well are people surviving in big US cities, or in electronics-heavy areas, on just minimum wage? People are competing for these "awful" jobs, just as there are still plenty of people in really dire circumstances right here at home.

For the record, if you search for positions in that region, there are a lot of skilled worker employment opportunities that are unfilled. I found several teaching posts that have ridiculously good benefits. Why isn't there an article about those?

 

[Free Moral Agent]

We must have near slave labor so that Bill Gates can have a bigger profit margin. Gates really needs that money. Not that he wants to spend it. His vast wealth gives him the clout to attend all the global Oligarchy meetings and further his new world agenda, including pushing for the use of taxpayer money to help support all these poor, abused people in the third world. Future generations can worship at shrines to Gates and his superior business genius and limitless benevolence.

+1

Yes, thank you! All the corporate apologists applauding such conditions are acting like Microsoft is operating on the line between profit and loss. Sure, the prices of these goods would rise if Gates wanted to retain the same profit margin - but certainly he and his cadre of executives could absorb the dent that comes with giving breaks or raising wages. Gates can start being philanthropic by improving the working conditions of his own company, not trying to push for more subsidies or infusing his foundations to bolster his "compassionate" image.

Just because it is legal to do so, does not make it unethical or immoral to conduct. I would ask that Gates and his customers consider this and voluntarily change the way they do business.

 

[Lost Myth]

It was the militaristic management and sleep deprivation that affected the worker most. 'I know I can choose not to work overtime, but if I don't work overtime then I am stuck with only 770 Chinese yuan (£72.77p) per month in basic wages,' the worker said.
'This is not nearly enough to support a family. My parents are farmers without jobs. They also do not have pensions.
'I also need to worry about getting married, which requires a lot of money. Therefore, I still push myself to continue working in spite of my exhaustion.

770 Chinese yuan is about $110 a month, which obviously is crap in the United States. But in China almost all necessities for living are significantly cheaper. When I visited there I spent on average 10 yuan ($1.30) a day on food and could have easily gotten by with 5/day if I needed to.

Also, for comparison's sake, the average Chinese farmer (which presumably was this factory worker's other career option, considering his parents are farmers) earns 3500 yuan a year, or about 300 yuan ($40) a month. There's a lot of farmers who want to leave the countryside for higher-paying factory jobs but are restricted from doing so due to immigration laws imposed by the Chinese government.

I think the key here is that the worker "can choose not to work overtime," but still does to support his parents. No one is forcing them to put in 15 hours a day, and even if they don't, I imagine their standard of living is still a significant improvement over the alternative.

 

[fj45lvr]

are Microsoft and Hewlett Packard "too big to fail"???

 

[krazy kaju]

Because if these women didn't work here, clearly they'd be doctors or teachers and not, say, starve to death.

This.

 

[MelissaWV]

I see a lot of people are so angry at Microsoft (and other computer companies, I might add) that they're going to tap and type away at their computers in righteous anger!

Perhaps you're also the sort of people who're angry at how cruel people are, killing cows and other animals for meat... as you chomp down on a big juicy burger

 

[AutonomousLiberty]

Why Are Wages Low in Developing Countries?
Mises Daily: Monday, December 01, 2008 by Art Carden

Low wages in developing countries are among the many sins allegedly committed by global capitalism, but few of those making the charge really stop to think about why wages are so low in some developing countries.

In his 2007 book The Myth of the Rational Voter, economist Bryan Caplan proposes an interesting thought experiment which suggests that people implicitly accept the results of competitive markets. Caplan asks if those who criticize companies that pay low wages overseas feel that they could get rich quick by investing all of their resources in overseas enterprises — specifically, enterprises in poor countries. After all, it stands to reason that if workers in developing countries are underpaid and exploited, a profit-seeking businessperson would be able to reap immediate profits by hiring the workers away from their current occupations and re-employing them elsewhere.

If people pass on the opportunity, Caplan argues, then they implicitly accept the tragic-but-nonetheless-real fact that workers in very poor countries simply are not very productive. Low wages, then, are not the product of exploitative multinational corporations but of extremely low productivity. The relevant question for those concerned about the very poor is not "how do we convince (or force) multinational corporations to pay more" but "how can we improve the productivity of the world's poorest workers?"

This is where there is room for improvement, and this improvement should come by improving contracting institutions in poor countries. I don't have the specific local or cultural knowledge to know exactly how these institutions will evolve, but socially conscious investors or activists should try to encourage the development of institutions that constrain coercion and limit fraud.

Suffice it to say that the strategy of blocking overseas investment is ineffective at its best and positively harmful at its worst. I'm willing to grant the possibility that global labor markets are monopsonistic rather than competitive, but international capital flows suggest that this is not the case.

In a study of wages and working conditions in developing countries, economists Benjamin Powell and David Skarbek found that the textile sweatshops derided by rich westerners offer higher wages and better working conditions than the alternatives in very poor countries. People in developing countries need more sweatshops rather than fewer.

http://mises.org/daily/3218

 

[CountryboyRonPaul]

The SHOCKING picture the Dept. of Education doesn't want you to see!