The image microsoft doesn't want you to see

[furface]

You don't think the myriad contracts and negotiations that will then need to go on every time someone wants to import something will raise the price? What will happen is a bunch of products will simply no longer be available... via legit means, at least. Ah the black market. But at least no one gets hurt by a black market, right?

To be honest I don't know exactly what the impact would be. I can only guess. The bottom line is that American workers shouldn't have to compete against slave labor in places like China, India, Malaysia, etc.

My preferred solution is voluntary economic cooperatives.

 

[moostraks]

I don't agree with this statement. Product quality is at historic highs. In the 1970s a car lasted maybe a few years, and 100k was a huge amount of miles for your car. Nowadays cars ship with 100k bumper to bumper warranties. They last a lot longer.

Actually product quality is one of the things that is hurting labor. Quality goes up, products last longer, less demand for labor.

The best solution is voluntary economic/monetary cooperatives. People need to be able to join an economic cooperative where they actual trade each other for goods and labor, not the multinational slavery marketed as "free trade" that we have today.

Product quality is not at a high. Tried to purchase a decent piece of furniture lately? A refridgerator? A vaccuum cleaner. Needle in a haystack when it comes to quality.People who work for low wages and long hours do not have the loyalty that a product with a decent reputation would inspire or a company that truly respects its employees...

 

[ChaosControl]

And if we did do that kind of production here, the cost would skyrocket because the overhead expenses would likely spike (from labor costs to running the factory), and the production rate would probably drop with little quality difference. That's why everything we buy is made in China or Taiwan. If you want to have all production in the USA, be careful what you ask for.

The cost would be more since the people would be making a more fair wage instead of basically slave wages. Maybe we should just legalize slavery again so we can get things even cheaper, seems cheap prices is all people are concerned about so they should support this.

 

[furface]

Product quality is not at a high. Tried to purchase a decent piece of furniture lately? A refridgerator? A vaccuum cleaner. Needle in a haystack when it comes to quality.People who work for low wages and long hours do not have the loyalty that a product with a decent reputation would inspire or a company that truly respects its employees

Sorry, I just don't see it. My frig is still going strong after 10 years. Vacuum cleaner works fine. My cats have ripped up the sides of my couches, and my kids use them as trampolines, but other than that the furniture is doing fine. To be honest this sounds like unions talking up their importance.

Again, the solution is for people to be allowed to form economic cooperatives. We need to experiment with these things. I see a lot of arm chair analyzing here with very little empirical evidence. We need to let people try things out and see what works best.

 

[Brian Defferding]

The cost would be more since the people would be making a more fair wage instead of basically slave wages. Maybe we should just legalize slavery again so we can get things even cheaper, seems cheap prices is all people are concerned about so they should support this.

I think it's admitted laziness on the consumer. They want the prices of the product to be the same, but want better working conditions for the assemblers. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

Protectionism, I think, is a very futile game. It won't accomplish much, all it will do is set up a secondary import/export market that the federal government cannot possibly crack down on unless it gets an insurmountable amount of funding (which it won't). Plus if you make it hard enough for big business, big business has the money to buck the system. For instance, they will set up a secondary company in Canada that might not have the same protectionism, and ship the China-assembled parts from Canada down to America though various distributors. Problem solved.

We just need to channel our purchases and take consumer action here. If we don't want our computer assembled by borderline slave labor conditions, find a computer geek to assemble one for you from various parts. Write a letter to Microsoft. Start an ad campaign/consumer awareness organization.

The change doesn't start with Congress, it starts - and ends - with you and me.

 

[ChaosControl]

I think it's admitted laziness on the consumer. They want the prices of the product to be the same, but want better working conditions for the assemblers. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

Protectionism, I think, is a very futile game. It won't accomplish much, all it will do is set up a secondary import/export market that the federal government cannot possibly crack down on unless it gets an insurmountable amount of funding (which it won't).

We just need to channel our purchases and take consumer action here. If we don't want our computer assembled by borderline slave labor conditions, find a computer geek to assemble one for you from various parts. Write a letter to Microsoft. Start an ad campaign/consumer awareness organization.

The change doesn't start with Congress, it starts - and ends - with you and me.

And I don't disagree with that. I don't necessarily think government should step in, I just think that we as consumers shouldn't tolerate this kind of crap.

 

[Brian Defferding]

And I don't disagree with that. I don't necessarily think government should step in, I just think that we as consumers shouldn't tolerate this kind of crap.

I agree with you.

 

[erowe1]

The cost would be more since the people would be making a more fair wage instead of basically slave wages. Maybe we should just legalize slavery again so we can get things even cheaper, seems cheap prices is all people are concerned about so they should support this.

Slavery didn't persist just because of being legal. It was positively protected by the government. The government itself recognized slaves as property and would not let them escape, nor let any of the states give them sanctuary--the Constitution required that they be returned.

Plus, it's apples and oranges, since legalizing sweatshops is legalizing agreements between two free parties who both want to enter the arrangement. It's not kidnapping people and then shackling them somewhere to work against their wills. Employees who take those jobs choose to do it because they decide for themselves that taking those jobs would be good for them. For outsiders to oppose that is to make those people worse off, not better off.

 

[moostraks]

Slavery didn't persist just because of being legal. It was positively protected by the government. The government itself recognized slaves as property and would not let them escape, nor let any of the states give them sanctuary--the Constitution required that they be returned.

Plus, it's apples and oranges, since legalizing sweatshops is legalizing agreements between two free parties who both want to enter the arrangement. It's not kidnapping people and then shackling them somewhere to work against their wills. Employees who take those jobs choose to do it because they decide for themselves that taking those jobs would be good for them. For outsiders to oppose that is to make those people worse off, not better off.

Just because you don't see the tangible shackles doesn't mean they aren't there. If the only option is a job thatpays next to nothing that is better than nothing. This is what the corporate vultures pray on.

 

[ChaosControl]

Slavery didn't persist just because of being legal. It was positively protected by the government. The government itself recognized slaves as property and would not let them escape, nor let any of the states give them sanctuary--the Constitution required that they be returned.

Plus, it's apples and oranges, since legalizing sweatshops is legalizing agreements between two free parties who both want to enter the arrangement. It's not kidnapping people and then shackling them somewhere to work against their wills. Employees who take those jobs choose to do it because they decide for themselves that taking those jobs would be good for them. For outsiders to oppose that is to make those people worse off, not better off.

If it is starve to death or work as basically a slave, there isn't really much of a choice at all. Its like if someone has a gun to your head and tells you to do something, that isn't really much of a choice.

 

[winston_blade]

If it is starve to death or work as basically a slave, there isn't really much of a choice at all. Its like if someone has a gun to your head and tells you to do something, that isn't really much of a choice.

Well their choices are to work at the factories that they currently work at, prostitution, or unemployment and starvation. They are picking the best choice for themselves otherwise they wouldn't be there. Who am I to say that they can no longer work for such a small wage? That's completely their choice and should remain so.

 

[moostraks]

Sorry, I just don't see it. My frig is still going strong after 10 years. Vacuum cleaner works fine. My cats have ripped up the sides of my couches, and my kids use them as trampolines, but other than that the furniture is doing fine. To be honest this sounds like unions talking up their importance.

Again, the solution is for people to be allowed to form economic cooperatives. We need to experiment with these things. I see a lot of arm chair analyzing here with very little empirical evidence. We need to let people try things out and see what works best.

My fridge is from the 40's and still going strong. The one in the basement is less than 10 years old made with cheap quality parts and is sputtering and fitting. The ice maker lost its life long ago. The shelves have had the cheap pins sheared off in the first two years. So the door no longer has shelves. Cheap crap. Not a cheap fridge either!

The sofa I have from roughly the 20's is in excellent shape. the original material is still holding strong. The frame is perfect. The seats are strong and springy. the upstairs sofa is about 10 years old. We reinforced the frame. The cushoins are cheap sponge material. The fabric is threadbare. So we cover with high quality sofa covers. It will see the dump long before the downstairs sofa gets retired to be reupholstered. (if that ever needs done!)

We have owned 4 vacuums in 9 years. The next to the last one had a 10 year warranty. I paid over $400 for the priviledge of that warranty with a vacuum. Within 3 years of purchase we learned the company no longer honors the warranty because the parts do not exist to fix it. The last vacuum we bought at a cost that would be disposable in two years the average life expectancy of most market vacuums. We are removing the carpets and the vacuum will not be an issue.

Ask a good, reputable vacuum repair guy what quality the average market vacuums are now. The Vacuum Place 770-973-0774 is excellent. The owner knows vacuums backwards and forwards and loves to talk. He is the one who schooled us on the fact that most are made with sub par parts.

Contrary to your crappy little union comment, I purchase antique and vintage rather than new. If it survives till I get it odds are it will last for the duration I need it. When I have purchased new I have gotten bit almost everytime. I do not buy cheap either. If it were cheap I would know I got what I paid for. I don't get off on filling landfills.

Your experiences are not the norm and the lobbying for consumer protection and vast number of product websites with numerous claims of poor product quality speak elsewise.

 

[AutonomousLiberty]

YouTube - John Stossel : Sweatshops

 

[torchbearer]

Buy a Mac!

ever seen their sweat shops?
looks like 12 year old girls making their ipods.

 

[moostraks]

YouTube - John Stossel : Sweatshops

Nice corporate propaganda, but they are being exploited. Just because the improvement is above (arguably) the previous standard of living doesn't make it right.

Furthermore, it is not the americans responsibility to save the world. By strumming the heartstrings like Stossel did regarding how heartless it is not to support these sweatshops he merely allows people to feel self righteous in supporting the companies that are exploiting both their home country for the priviledge of being removed from ground zero and those they hire. If these companies want to have the priviledge of using foreign labor let them renounce their citizenship and be accountable in the countries they are 'improving'.

 

[Dreamofunity]

Easy solution for sweatshops: get air-conditioning. Problem solved.

I loled.

 

[Ninja Homer]

If it is starve to death or work as basically a slave, there isn't really much of a choice at all. Its like if someone has a gun to your head and tells you to do something, that isn't really much of a choice.

A 3rd option is for the 1.3 billion Chinese citizens to rise up and defeat communism and take back their natural human rights. Not that I don't have any sympathy for their working conditions, but I'd have a whole lot more if they'd give that a try first.

 

[teamrican1]

If these companies want to have the priviledge of using foreign labor let them renounce their citizenship and be accountable in the countries they are 'improving'.

Not really sure what you mean. A multinational corporation doesn't have "citizenship" and is already accountable to any country it has a factory or office in, or with which it does business. Most of these jobs the liberal press decries as "sweatshops" are actually highly sought after in the regions where they operate. They pay well, and they are indoors. Beats the hell out of working in a rice field for 16 hours where you are subject to heavy rains, relentless sun, and all sorts of pesky bugs while performing grueling manual labor and being on your feet all day.

 

[sratiug]

The problem with this situation is not that we do not stop it, it is that we subsidize it. Our trade agreements allow us to send cheap (with the help of farm subsidies) mass produced food overseas putting their farmers out of business forcing them to take whatever factory jobs they can get. And while we pay huge internal taxes here forcing prices of American products ever higher we have no taxes on imports, giving these imported sweatshop goods a big advantage in our market.

Replacing our all of our internal federal taxes with a flat tariff would minimize the problem.

 

[brandon]

If it is starve to death or work as basically a slave, there isn't really much of a choice at all. Its like if someone has a gun to your head and tells you to do something, that isn't really much of a choice.

Welcome to being a living organism on planet earth. If you want to survive, you have to work. This is true for everyone not on the government dole. The fact that you have to exert energy to survive on this planet hardly counts as slavery.