The image microsoft doesn't want you to see

[furface]

How ironic. I'm using a Microsoft mouse to submit this post. The picture doesn't tell the whole story. Asians tend to think or rest with their heads resting on desks. I do the same thing and have been accused of slacking by teachers when I did it in their classes.

However, the description of the conditions is appalling. That's one of the reasons I think that "free trade" is a complete myth. I don't agree with Ron Paul on this issue. We need protectionism in some form or another. Maybe in some fantasyland a capitalist system with completely free trade would work, but not the way America works. You have workers in America competing against workers with no rights being paid horrible wages working in horrible conditions. It makes absolutely no sense that such "free trade" would work.

 

[MelissaWV]

How ironic. I'm using a Microsoft mouse to submit this post. The picture doesn't tell the whole story. Asians tend to think or rest with their heads resting on desks. I do the same thing and have been accused of slacking by teachers when I did it in their classes.

However, the description of the conditions is appalling. That's one of the reasons I think that "free trade" is a complete myth. I don't agree with Ron Paul on this issue. We need protectionism in some form or another. Maybe in some fantasyland a capitalist system with completely free trade would work, but not the way America works. You have workers in America competing against workers with no rights being paid horrible wages working in horrible conditions. It makes absolutely no sense that such "free trade" would work.

You make decisions based on more than just price.

 

[Brian Defferding]

How ironic. I'm using a Microsoft mouse to submit this post. The picture doesn't tell the whole story. Asians tend to think or rest with their heads resting on desks. I do the same thing and have been accused of slacking by teachers when I did it in their classes.

However, the description of the conditions is appalling. That's one of the reasons I think that "free trade" is a complete myth. I don't agree with Ron Paul on this issue. We need protectionism in some form or another. Maybe in some fantasyland a capitalist system with completely free trade would work, but not the way America works. You have workers in America competing against workers with no rights being paid horrible wages working in horrible conditions. It makes absolutely no sense that such "free trade" would work.

What kind of protectionism do you suggest? How effective do you think it would be?

 

[Inkblots]

They... have no bathroom breaks during their shifts and must clean the toilets as discipline, according to the NLC.

Wait, this article is claiming they can't use the bathrooms, but they must clean the bathrooms?

Somehow I doubt that's the case, but if it were, I guess any time I needed to use the toilet I'd just get myself disciplined and use it while I was in there.

 

[ChaosControl]

I hate microsoft, well heck I hate most of these disgusting mega corps. Freaking sick.

 

[Inkblots]

However, the description of the conditions is appalling. That's one of the reasons I think that "free trade" is a complete myth. I don't agree with Ron Paul on this issue. We need protectionism in some form or another. Maybe in some fantasyland a capitalist system with completely free trade would work, but not the way America works. You have workers in America competing against workers with no rights being paid horrible wages working in horrible conditions. It makes absolutely no sense that such "free trade" would work.

You do realize that there's such a mad clamor among the Chinese peasantry to get factory jobs like this because the pay is actually better and the work safer and easier than life on their subsistence farms, right?

Why do you hate the Chinese so much, that you want to deny them even the smallest improvements in their quality of life by refusing to trade with them?

 

[MelissaWV]

Wait, this article is claiming they can't use the bathrooms, but they must clean the bathrooms?

Somehow I doubt that's the case, but if it were, I guess any time I needed to use the toilet I'd just get myself disciplined and use it while I was in there.

The accusation is that they cannot use the bathrooms during their shifts. Can they use them during breaks? Can they use them during mealtimes? Why do the bathrooms need cleaning if they're hardly used...

The article looks like another slanted "expose" of foreign work conditions without revealing every side of the story, but what does one ever expect....

 

[ChaosControl]

but if it were so game-changingly bad, people wouldn't mind paying a crapload more for something made entirely slave labor free

The problem here is people are selfish, they couldn't care less about others if it means it actually impacts their own financial position.

The other problem is it can be rather difficult to find American made products, every store, whether its chinamart or macys or whatever sells mostly made in china stuff. We do so little production here anymore...

 

[specsaregood]

True dat. I've also gotten internet violations for visiting this website and lewrockwell.

What was your previous username here?

 

[Brian Defferding]

The problem here is people are selfish, they couldn't care less about others if it means it actually impacts their own financial position.

The other problem is it can be rather difficult to find American made products, every store, whether its chinamart or macys or whatever sells mostly made in china stuff. We do so little production here anymore...

And if we did do that kind of production here, the cost would skyrocket because the overhead expenses would likely spike (from labor costs to running the factory), and the production rate would probably drop with little quality difference. That's why everything we buy is made in China or Taiwan. If you want to have all production in the USA, be careful what you ask for.

 

[MelissaWV]

And if we did do that kind of production here, the cost would skyrocket because the overhead expenses would likely spike, and the production rate would probably drop with little quality difference. From labor costs to running the factory. That's why everything we buy is made in China or Taiwan. If you want to all production in the USA, be careful what you ask for.

"My union says I get two paid 15 minute breaks. My union says I have to be provided parking such that I won't get wet walking to my car if it rains. My union says I get an hour lunch. My union says I need to be paid $35 per hour to do what I'm sure you could find someone to do for $15 per hour, probably with the same qualifications and with a lot more motivation. My union says the keyboards aren't ergonomic enough. OSHA says I need a safer work environment. My union says I don't have to lift boxes over 30 pounds...."

...

Why are all the jobs leaving?!?!? Government, please help!

 

[pcosmar]

As much as I hate factory work (boring ,mindless, repetition), I would welcome it at this point. However there is none available. Thank you NAFTA, EPA and various Government regulations, all the production has been shipped elsewhere.
Perhaps is there was some production here I could fix the cars for those that had money to spend.

"My union says

Oh yeah, Thank you . That too.

 

[Brian Defferding]

"My union says I get two paid 15 minute breaks. My union says I have to be provided parking such that I won't get wet walking to my car if it rains. My union says I get an hour lunch. My union says I need to be paid $35 per hour to do what I'm sure you could find someone to do for $15 per hour, probably with the same qualifications and with a lot more motivation. My union says the keyboards aren't ergonomic enough. OSHA says I need a safer work environment. My union says I don't have to lift boxes over 30 pounds...."

...

Why are all the jobs leaving?!?!? Government, please help!

Bingo. A good part of Americans and their politicians, I hate to admit, believe they are "entitled to a decent wage" under "government approved safe working environments" with "decent working hours" providing "proper health insurance that doesn't gouge our pockets." All of those things are debatable at best in the first place, but when they get what they feel they are entitled for, the cost just continues to grow.

And they wonder why production is shipped overseas.

 

[Icymudpuppy]

Until they invent Star Trek Transporters, or Magical Teleportation, Service trades like plumbing, electrical, HVAC, Carpentry, Pest Control, etc cannot be outsourced.

Forget College. Get an apprenticeship. I just hired a 19yo to be my apprentice. I pay him $9/hr to be my assistant, and when he is done training 2-3 months he will move to 20% commissions which if he is a good worker should earn him about $25/hr, and if he gets as good as I am, he will earn $60/hr.

 

[furface]

What kind of protectionism do you suggest? How effective do you think it would be?

I think the US should institution labor and environmental standards for any product that enters its shores. If a factory in China (for instance) can prove that it has a set of minimal standards for workers and it follows a set of minimal standards for not harming the environment, then we allow their products to enter.

The only people benefiting from this "free trade" system are the executives of multinationals like Microsoft and the Wall Street banks that push money around for them.

Having said that the regulation doesn't have to be done at the federal level. Federal regulation is always suspect. What should really happen is that the federal government should turn itself down maybe 20 or 30 notches and let smaller economic communities form that can make consumer decisions at the community level. Right now tax laws and other regulations make such communities difficult or impossible to form. It's the individual against the fed. Anything in between will be crushed.

 

[moostraks]

Until they invent Star Trek Transporters, or Magical Teleportation, Service trades like plumbing, electrical, HVAC, Carpentry, Pest Control, etc cannot be outsourced.

Forget College. Get an apprenticeship. I just hired a 19yo to be my apprentice. I pay him $9/hr to be my assistant, and when he is done training 2-3 months he will move to 20% commissions which if he is a good worker should earn him about $25/hr, and if he gets as good as I am, he will earn $60/hr.

When we are left with nothing but service sector jobs everyone will be competing for them and that will drive the price of labor down. So they will also be working for peanuts.

The only ones winning at this game right now are the globalist corporations. The corporations don't get stymied by unions anymore they just fire the whole bunch and hire elsewhere. There is no incentive for them to be here and no repercussions for them to outsource offshore.

What has suffered is quality. Try to purchase a better product. They are all competing to be the biggest corporate slumlords. There is no morals and no scruples to produce a quality product so instead we accept that refridgerators break in 7 years and a car will be unservicable before it is paid off. How about that chinese drywall in those new houses that were overinflated to begin with???

 

[MelissaWV]

I think the US should institution labor and environmental standards for any product that enters its shores. If a factory in China (for instance) can prove that it has a set of minimal standards for workers and it follows a set of minimal standards for not harming the environment, then we allow their products to enter.

The only people benefiting from this "free trade" system are the executives of multinationals like Microsoft and the Wall Street banks that push money around for them.

Having said that the regulation doesn't have to be done at the federal level. Federal regulation is always suspect. What should really happen is that the federal government should turn itself down maybe 20 or 30 notches and let smaller economic communities form that can make consumer decisions at the community level. Right now tax laws and other regulations make such communities difficult or impossible to form. It's the individual against the fed. Anything in between will be crushed.

You don't think the myriad contracts and negotiations that will then need to go on every time someone wants to import something will raise the price? What will happen is a bunch of products will simply no longer be available... via legit means, at least. Ah the black market. But at least no one gets hurt by a black market, right?

 

[furface]

What has suffered is quality. Try to purchase a better product.

I don't agree with this statement. Product quality is at historic highs. In the 1970s a car lasted maybe a few years, and 100k was a huge amount of miles for your car. Nowadays cars ship with 100k bumper to bumper warranties. They last a lot longer.

Actually product quality is one of the things that is hurting labor. Quality goes up, products last longer, less demand for labor.

The best solution is voluntary economic/monetary cooperatives. People need to be able to join an economic cooperative where they actual trade each other for goods and labor, not the multinational slavery marketed as "free trade" that we have today.

 

[moostraks]

I think the US should institution labor and environmental standards for any product that enters its shores. If a factory in China (for instance) can prove that it has a set of minimal standards for workers and it follows a set of minimal standards for not harming the environment, then we allow their products to enter.

The only people benefiting from this "free trade" system are the executives of multinationals like Microsoft and the Wall Street banks that push money around for them.

Having said that the regulation doesn't have to be done at the federal level. Federal regulation is always suspect. What should really happen is that the federal government should turn itself down maybe 20 or 30 notches and let smaller economic communities form that can make consumer decisions at the community level. Right now tax laws and other regulations make such communities difficult or impossible to form. It's the individual against the fed. Anything in between will be crushed.

If a corporation has to be of a set standard of quality within the United States then the imports must be of the same standards as well or there is no reason to institute the law except that the intention was for this to lead to globalization. This results in the vast array of people competing to produce a finite number of products would drive up the profit for the small number of global corporate owners and drive down the wages for the larger number of workers.

Workers lose, corporations win, and the ability to compete by small business owners is thwarted through the number of loopholes in order to get in the game. Therefore the competition based upon quality is irrelevant...

 

[erowe1]

I think the US should institution labor and environmental standards for any product that enters its shores. If a factory in China (for instance) can prove that it has a set of minimal standards for workers and it follows a set of minimal standards for not harming the environment, then we allow their products to enter.

The only people benefiting from this "free trade" system are the executives of multinationals like Microsoft and the Wall Street banks that push money around for them.

Having said that the regulation doesn't have to be done at the federal level. Federal regulation is always suspect. What should really happen is that the federal government should turn itself down maybe 20 or 30 notches and let smaller economic communities form that can make consumer decisions at the community level. Right now tax laws and other regulations make such communities difficult or impossible to form. It's the individual against the fed. Anything in between will be crushed.

I'm not where you are on this. But let me take this opportunity to point out that RP supporters who favor more trade restrictions and tariffs (and I know there are a lot who do), should love John Hostettler.