The Constitution Party

G-Wohl

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Jan 3, 2008
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I'm going to summarize all of my thoughts on this very important matter in this thread, because I need to touch upon everything that so blatantly makes the Constitution Party anti-liberty.

First, I need to make the immediate claim that The Revolution's affinity for this political party frightens me to no end. This movement, in the course of a couple of months, has gone from a large tent of liberty lovers to a small whack-job tent of Theocrats and religious nuts. I would dearly hope that most here do not believe that the "Constitution" Party is the only hope we have left. In fact, I would rather posit that they are a great danger to our cause, rather than the "God" send that many people here believe it is.

Let us take a look at the party platform...

They have this to say about gambling:
Gambling promotes an increase in crime, destruction of family values, and a decline in the moral fiber of our country. We are opposed to government sponsorship, involvement in, or promotion of gambling, such as lotteries, or subsidization of Native American casinos in the name of economic development. We call for the repeal of federal legislation that usurps state and local authority regarding authorization and regulation of tribal casinos in the states.

This should immediately strike any freedom-loving libertarian as a very frightening thing. Why can the Constitution Party not simply say they do not favor federally-regulated gambling with tax payers' money? Why does it have anything to do with morals? Who are they to throw around words like "family values" and "moral fiber"? That should never have ANYTHING to do with the way the federal government is managed!

They have this to say about pornography (dear heavens):
Pornography, at best, is a distortion of the true nature of sex created by God for the procreative union between one man and one woman in the holy bonds of matrimony, and at worst, is a destructive element of society resulting in significant and real emotional, physical, spiritual and financial costs to individuals, families and communities. We call on our local, state and federal governments to uphold our cherished First Amendment right to free speech by vigorously enforcing our laws against obscenity to maintain a degree of separation between that which is truly speech and that which only seeks to distort and destroy.

With the advent of the Internet and the benevolent neglect of the previous administrations, the pornography industry enjoyed uninhibited growth and expansion until the point today that we live in a sex-saturated society where almost nothing remains untainted by its perversion. While we believe in the responsibility of the individual and corporate entities to regulate themselves, we also believe that our collective representative body we call government plays a vital role in establishing and maintaining the highest level of decency in our community standards.

WHAT?! I am simply astounded that few people here seem to find how disgracefully socialistic this all sounds! A distortion of God's will? Who are they to decide such an asinine thing? And how dare they use the First Amendment to erode our freedom of speech, when the First Amendment CLEARLY DEFINES our RIGHT to freedom of speech? This is a dastardly attempt to promote religious charlatanry, all the while implementing our Constitution in the most insulting of ways.

They say this about education:
All teaching is related to basic assumptions about God and man. Education as a whole, therefore, cannot be separated from religious faith. The law of our Creator assigns the authority and responsibility of educating children to their parents. Education should be free from all federal government subsidies, including vouchers, tax incentives, and loans, except with respect to veterans.

Yes, any libertarian would agree that the federal government should have nothing to do with education. Surely almost everybody here is for the closing of the Department of Education. But look at the reasons they provide: education "cannot be separated from religious faith." The Constitution Party clearly uses religious principle to justify political principle, but any freedom lover knows that it should be the OTHER WAY AROUND! This kind of bible pounding is precisely how we lost so many of our freedoms in the 20th century.

They say this of "family":
No government may legitimately authorize or define marriage or family relations contrary to what God has instituted.

Umm... what? Have they heard of the 10th amendment? States have the right to define marriage if they damn well please! The federal government cannot institute a constitutional amendment defining marriage, but that's because of the 10th amendment. What the hell does "God" have anything to do with it? Marriage is only a religious ceremony for those who make it that way. To think that they believe the federal government has some sort of obligation to follow what "God has instituted" just demonstrates this party's complete and utter lack of regard for Constitutional liberty and state's rights. Do they not realize that any state that wishes to allow marriages for gay couples is simply exercising their 10th amendment rights? Any freedom lover would understand this, but, once again, the Constitution Party believes they should put their ridiculous religious nonsense in front of the much more important principles: liberty, freedom, and the Constitution.

We affirm the value of the father and the mother in the home, and we oppose efforts to legalize adoption of children by homosexual singles or couples.

This is just clear bigotry. They mention nothing of opposing efforts to legalize any adoption regulation of any sort, which is what a libertarian SHOULD do. Because these idiots are so strongly drawn to their religious bigotry, they only appear to oppose regulation when it comes to homosexuals. Any freedom lover would oppose regulation of ANY KIND because it's not a role of government authorized by the Constitution! Again, a clear indication that this party is a Theocratic party, and not one supporting our Constitution.

I do not have an ounce of regret in my entire body when I say that the Constitution Party could not have chosen a more ironic name for their pathetic, zealous, whack job organization. Their POTUS '08 candidate, Chuck Baldwin, a bigoted dirt bag who also happens to be a "man of God", closely follows the party platform. Do we really want even the slightest possibility of this maniac having executive control of the federal government?

It necessarily brings up a very important question: why did all of you Baldwin supporters ever support Ron Paul in the first place? Ron Paul is a religious man, but his views on freedom and liberty have absolutely nothing to do with his born-again status. He recognizes that freedom should be for all, and that the Constitution - NOT THE BIBLE - should defend this fact. I've said it before, and I'll say it again; if you follow the crazy rhetoric that the "Constitution" Party preaches, then you supported Ron Paul for all the wrong reasons. He wasn't some sort of religious upholder, nor was he an "issues" voter. He votes on PRINCIPLE - he votes on whether or not the issue at hand is authorized by the Constitution. The Constitution Party has clearly made its decisions based off of a much different - much irrelevant - document that should hold no bearing in any political decisions. Was it not the First Amendment that declared Congress shall make no law, neither defending nor prohibiting, a religious organization? (Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof).

With Ron Paul out of the race, I understand that The Revolutionaries don't have many choices. But why must we stoop to the embarrassingly contradictory nature of Chuck Baldwin and his Theocratic nut job party platform? I have too much trouble believing that everything the Revolutionaries worked for ended up in vain. And if you believe that their work is not in vain with Chuck Baldwin being the top contender at the moment for the liberty vote, then you are part of the problem, and not part of the solution.
 
Umm... what? Have they heard of the 10th amendment? States have the right to define marriage if they damn well please! The federal government cannot institute a constitutional amendment defining marriage, but that's because of the 10th amendment. What the hell does "God" have anything to do with it? Marriage is only a religious ceremony for those who make it that way. To think that they believe the federal government has some sort of obligation to follow what "God has instituted" just demonstrates this party's complete and utter lack of regard for Constitutional liberty and state's rights. Do they not realize that any state that wishes to allow marriages for gay couples is simply exercising their 10th amendment rights? Any freedom lover would understand this, but, once again, the Constitution Party believes they should put their ridiculous religious nonsense in front of the much more important principles: liberty, freedom, and the Constitution.

You make a very good point, my friend. I've been saying to friends and colleagues for a long time that the government should have nothing to do with religious rites/ceremonies such as marriage. This has been my big issue with the "Constitution" party. I need to see some more proof of their commitment to individual liberty than what I've seen in their literature before I will vote for Baldwin, et. al.
 
The Constitution party is gloriously pro-liberty. Your criticism is completely unwarranted. Morality is not subjective; rather our system of government is based on judeo-christian morality. That's the only way limited government will work.

Check out this article: http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2008/sep/08091204.html
This leading abortion advocate openly admits abortion is murder, but that's fine because she says the powerful have a right to kill the powerless. This is the logical conclusion of your argument.
 
The Constitutional Party is not the Libertarian Party. If you don't agree with it, than don't vote for it.
 
The Constitution party is gloriously pro-liberty. Your criticism is completely unwarranted. Morality is not subjective; rather our system of government is based on judeo-christian morality. That's the only way limited government will work.

Check out this article: http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2008/sep/08091204.html
This leading abortion advocate openly admits abortion is murder, but that's fine because she says the powerful have a right to kill the powerless. This is the logical conclusion of your argument.

Morality is not subjective? What kind of pedestal are you standing on, sir? Since you're such a morality expert, can you please tell me how drugs, prostitution, and homosexuality are objectively immoral things? Better yet, what about morals that are condemned by some religions and praised by others, like polygamy?

Our government is not based on any morality from any religion. You clearly don't know anything about the Treaty of Tripoli.

Treaty of Tripoli said:
As the Government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquillity, of Musselmen; and as the said States never have entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mehomitan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.

And in case you need a Constitution lesson:

This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land
 
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The Constitutional Party is not the Libertarian Party. If you don't agree with it, than don't vote for it.

I plan not to. I also plan to exercise my right of free speech to expose their nastiness, which is something that the Constitution Party doesn't' seem to value too much.
 
The Constitution party is gloriously pro-liberty. Your criticism is completely unwarranted. Morality is not subjective; rather our system of government is based on judeo-christian morality. That's the only way limited government will work.

Check out this article: http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2008/sep/08091204.html
This leading abortion advocate openly admits abortion is murder, but that's fine because she says the powerful have a right to kill the powerless. This is the logical conclusion of your argument.

They seem to be pro-liberty from what I've read so far; but would they tolerate those who disagree with the religious aspects of the platform?
 
I plan not to. I also plan to exercise my right of free speech to expose their nastiness, which is something that the Constitution Party doesn't' seem to value too much.

Very well. Good luck.
 
Morality is not subjective? What kind of pedestal are you standing on, sir? Since you're such a morality expert, can you please tell me how drugs, prostitution, and homosexuality are objectively immoral things? Better yet, what about morals that are condemned by some religions and praised by others, like polygamy?

Our government is not based on any morality from any religion. You clearly don't know anything about the Treaty of Tripoli.



And in case you need a Constitution lesson:



Your assertions are dangerous and misplaced. First off, you believe morality is subjective - thus, the serial killer's morality should not be judged, as he has the right to whatever system of morality he wants to believe and act according to.

The treaty of Tripoli has nothing to do with the FACT that our system of limited government is founded on the morality of the Judeo-Christian ethic. This has nothing to do with treaties with Muslim countries. Our system of government was not founded on any religion - it was founded however, on themes that concur with the traditional morality of Western Culture. Without this, you can kill whomever you want, as the article I posted above suggests.
 
Morality is not subjective? What kind of pedestal are you standing on, sir? Since you're such a morality expert, can you please tell me how drugs, prostitution, and homosexuality are objectively immoral things? Better yet, what about morals that are condemned by some religions and praised by others, like polygamy?

Our government is not based on any morality from any religion. You clearly don't know anything about the Treaty of Tripoli.



And in case you need a Constitution lesson:

The other items you mention are mostly local issues; not federal issues. I think the Constitution party would understand that. But the Candidates they have elected to office thus far are mostly local, and hence these issues are important at that level. Federal gov has no authority to regulate drugs for example.
 
Andrew Grathwohl if you support Ron Paul then I do not see why you do not support Chuck Baldwin. I believe Ron Paul and Chuck Baldwin want to get the Federal government out of our lives and leave all powers not specifically authorized the Federal government in the Constitution, to the States and the people. Article [X].

Ron Paul has said that what an individual puts in his/her mouth is not the business of the Federal government. That said, I believe his statement applies to anything else an individual wants to do with his/her body. Moral issues are best left to the individual and God, as long as those issues do not infringe on the rights of others.

You mention gay couples adopting children. I have a problem with gay couples adopting children because I know that a child needs the influence of both a male and a female in the home (they each have different rolls in raising up the child). The same applies to single parents. It has nothing to do with the moral question of being gay. Please read the book Scam by Rev. Jesse Lee Peterson, and you will understand why I take this position. Having said that, this is my personal opinion therefore I feel that the issue should be left to the State to decide according to the will of the people. If you do not like the laws of one State, move to a State that has laws that most closely mirror your views.

BTW: As a Christian, I believe moral issues pertaining to gays should be left to the individual and God. Gays do not have to choose between their unique lifestyle and God. God judges all our actions. Gays should acknowledge Him and ask Him to come into their lives -- we are all His children. Judge not, that you be not judged (Matt. 7:1).
 
holy Fucking Shit! I had no idea the Constitution was so religiously oriented. Christ! My vote is going back to Bob Barr, the Constitution Party only seems to care about Liberty when it doesn't come into conflict with THEIR religious beliefs!

BIGOTS!
 
holy Fucking Shit! I had no idea the Constitution was so religiously oriented. Christ! My vote is going back to Bob Barr, the Constitution Party only seems to care about Liberty when it doesn't come into conflict with THEIR religious beliefs!

BIGOTS!

Your asinine post is truly disheartening. You post-modernist types just need to get over the fact that Western culture is engrained with the Judeo-Christian ethic, and that the Constitution party recognizes it. This has nothing to do with forcing religion on anyone. A libertarian society can not exist without traditional morality engrained in the culture. If everyone does what is right in their own eyes then you'll have tyranny in a week. Morality is not subjective; otherwise, you might as well embrace anarchy which will have you dead in a week. Either way, you'll have something other than limited government which can not exist without a moral populace.
 
JTL......you expose everyones nastiness but your own.

The CP will get my vote because I dont trust Barr plain and simple. Should Barr be replaced as is speculated I will review my position until that time. My decision is mine not anyone elses.

Dont like it TOUGH.....get over it. I dont ask for anyones opinion on how I vote and Im not giving an opinion on how you vote.
 
JTL......you expose everyones nastiness but your own.

The CP will get my vote because I dont trust Barr plain and simple. Should Barr be replaced as is speculated I will review my position until that time. My decision is mine not anyone elses.

Dont like it TOUGH.....get over it. I dont ask for anyones opinion on how I vote and Im not giving an opinion on how you vote.

How am I nasty? Do you support statism? Do you support banning pornography? Do you think homosexuals are evil? Do you believe in Buchanan-esque protectionism? You must now endorse what you are voting for.

Well?

And when did I mention Bob Barr in this thread? I'm just an unbiased truth seeker trying to inform people.
 
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