Teenager killed by neighborhood watch captain

[truelies]

............. if you were walking around at night through a neighborhood, and some dude was slowly following you in his car, then got out and confronted you, what precisely would you do? ....................

Personally, I don't wander around at night in strange neighborhoods with a high crime rate while dressed in thuggie regalia. HOWEVER were I to do so any local would have EVERY RIGHT to ask what my business was and to expect a civil answer.

 

[Anti Federalist]

Personally, I don't wander around at night in strange neighborhoods with a high crime rate while dressed in thuggie regalia. HOWEVER were I to do so any local would have EVERY RIGHT to ask what my business was and to expect a civil answer.

Try that with me, my first response is going to be:

"You a cop?"

My second response will be, assuming that the first question is answered in the negative will be:

"Mind your own business."

 

[Anti Federalist]

Before or after he was told to stand down and stop following him?

I received this comment in a + rep on this post and thought it needed addressing:

I'm more concerned with whether Zimmerman was acting within his rights than whether he ignored the cops' orders.

Yes, I agree with that, up to this point:

If he was told to "stand down" and by doing so it would have defused the whole situation, and everything that happened after the fact, happened only because he continued the encounter when there was no good reason to do so, then, based on that I would say he was not within in rights, that there was no imminent threat other than the one he instigated.

One that, as I have said, had the situation been reversed, and somebody was following me and calling the cops on me for no real reason, I'd have punched the stalker in the face as well.

 

[AFPVet]

I received this comment in a + rep on this post and thought it needed addressing:



Yes, I agree with that, up to this point:

If he was told to "stand down" and by doing so it would have defused the whole situation, and everything that happened after the fact, happened only because he continued the encounter when there was no good reason to do so, then, based on that I would say he was not within in rights, that there was no imminent threat other than the one he instigated.

One that, as I have said, had the situation been reversed, and somebody was following me and calling the cops on me for no real reason, I'd have punched the stalker in the face as well.

I agree.... Mr. Zimmerman went out of the bounds of his duties by pursuing the young male; however, if the kid was entering the neighborhood and loitering..., Mr. Zimmerman would have every right (as would any resident there) to inquire as to his intent. I would probably say something like "Excuse me sir, can I help you"? People do get lost as well. If he was headed to a "friends" house, he could just say that and it would be cool. Now if he smarted off or called me a dergotory expletive, I would have told him to leave the neighborhood.

 

[r3volution]

http://www.myfoxtampabay.com/dpp/news/state/witness-martin-attacked-zimmerman-03232012

A witness we haven't heard from before paints a much different picture than we've seen so far of what happened the night 17-year-old Trayvon Martin was shot and killed.

The night of that shooting, police say there was a witness who saw it all.

Our sister station, FOX 35 in Orlando, has spoken to that witness.

What Sanford Police investigators have in the folder, they put together on the killing of Trayvon Martin few know about.

The file now sits in the hands of the state attorney. Now that file is just weeks away from being opened to a grand jury.

It shows more now about why police believed that night that George Zimmerman shouldn't have gone to jail.

Zimmerman called 911 and told dispatchers he was following a teen. The dispatcher told Zimmerman not to.

And from that moment to the shooting, details are few.

But one man's testimony could be key for the police.

"The guy on the bottom who had a red sweater on was yelling to me: 'help, help…and I told him to stop and I was calling 911," he said.

Trayvon Martin was in a hoodie; Zimmerman was in red.

The witness only wanted to be identified as "John," and didn't not want to be shown on camera.

His statements to police were instrumental, because police backed up Zimmerman's claims, saying those screams on the 911 call are those of Zimmerman.

"When I got upstairs and looked down, the guy who was on top beating up the other guy, was the one laying in the grass, and I believe he was dead at that point," John said.

Zimmerman says the shooting was self defense. According to information released on the Sanford city website, Zimmerman said he was going back to his SUV when he was attacked by the teen.

Sanford police say Zimmerman was bloody in his face and head, and the back of his shirt was wet and had grass stains, indicating a struggle took place before the shooting

 

[BamaAla]

I received this comment in a + rep on this post and thought it needed addressing:



Yes, I agree with that, up to this point:

If he was told to "stand down" and by doing so it would have defused the whole situation, and everything that happened after the fact, happened only because he continued the encounter when there was no good reason to do so, then, based on that I would say he was not within in rights, that there was no imminent threat other than the one he instigated.

One that, as I have said, had the situation been reversed, and somebody was following me and calling the cops on me for no real reason, I'd have punched the stalker in the face as well.

We just don't know all the details. My understanding is that the 911 dispatcher told him not to follow; that is tantamount to me telling you not to piss into the wind...sound advice but in no way legally binding.

If it was his neighborhood, especially if it is a gated complex, he has every right to inquire what the guy was doing there; what happened from there is the crucial information. Furthermore, Florida, like almost every other state, extends arrest powers to anyone that has reasonable belief that they have witnessed a felony and furthers that to certain misdemeanors. Because we don't know the intimate details of the situation, I defer to the investigators that were on the ground immediately following the incident and not to a bunch of racial agitators and the huffington post. I, of course, reserve the right to change my mind if new evidence surfaces, but getting anything other than embellished hearsay seems unlikely at this point.

 

[MelissaWV]

Personally, I don't wander around at night in strange neighborhoods with a high crime rate while dressed in thuggie regalia. HOWEVER were I to do so any local would have EVERY RIGHT to ask what my business was and to expect a civil answer.

WTF? So you're with Geraldo, that the kid was "asking for it" by wearing a hoodie and daring to walk to the store?

Good grief.

Oh, and most of the time, people in bad neighborhoods don't walk up to you in the middle of the night after having followed you to say "Hey! Nice weather we are having. Did you just come from the store? Are they still open? Did they have Skittles?"

 

[Gary4Liberty]

In the meantime, on the other side of things, you have someone serving around a decade behind bars for setting up a webcam to tape his roommate having sex.

Something is very wrong here.

no he actually got what was coming to him. Not because the guy killed himself but just for taping them and showing others. 10 years deserves every day.

 

[MelissaWV]

http://www.myfoxtampabay.com/dpp/news/state/witness-martin-attacked-zimmerman-03232012

Yeah... people keep quoting that. All it shows is that Martin was not shot on sight. How sad would it be if Martin "obeyed" that witness, stopped punching, and decided to wait for the cops... then got shot? Oh well. We don't know, because the witness that everyone keeps linking to DIDN'T SEE THAT PART and apparently DIDN'T SEE THE ENTIRE BEGINNING OF IT.

 

[r3volution]

wow. the propaganda machine sensationalizes a story so there race bating employee can get them ratings all the while rallying blacks around obama for his reelection . and some of you here fall for it , i honestly held you guys to a higher standard and thought you would all see right through it .

nuff of this stupid thread for me .

 

[pcosmar]

If it was his neighborhood,

But you see, it was NOT his neighborhood. He did not own it. He was a self appointed thug.

The kids father lived in that neighborhood. The Kid was staying with his father in that neighborhood.
The kid had every right to be there.
Period. and without question.

 

[Anti Federalist]

But you see, it was NOT his neighborhood. He did not own it. He was a self appointed thug.

The kids father lived in that neighborhood. The Kid was staying with his father in that neighborhood.
The kid had every right to be there.
Period. and without question.

This.

You have a right to walk down the street and not be accosted and questioned by every two bit "block captain" that comes along, have it turn into a fight and get shot.

 

[Anti Federalist]

We just don't know all the details. My understanding is that the 911 dispatcher told him not to follow; that is tantamount to me telling you not to piss into the wind...sound advice but in no way legally binding.

Well, see, yes it does.

Granted, no telephone dispatcher can stop somebody from doing what they are going to do, but it makes a huge difference when determining justification.

I held a Florida CCW for many years, and one of the legal aspects they hammered into us when taking the course for that was that if you went looking for an altercation and that led to the use of deadly force, you would not have legal protection for that.

Now, "Stand Your Ground" may have changed that, but if it did, it's not in the law where I can see it.

If you stood outside a ginmill and thought that a shady character went in the door and was going to cause trouble, you went in after him, and it ended up in a barroom brawl that you had to use deadly force to protect yourself, you would not have legal standing and would be liable to charges ranging from manslaughter to murder.

^^^^ That was the exact analogy the instructor used.

 

[ronpaulhawaii]

 

[Anti Federalist]

wow. the propaganda machine sensationalizes a story so there race bating employee can get them ratings all the while rallying blacks around obama for his reelection . and some of you here fall for it , i honestly held you guys to a higher standard and thought you would all see right through it .

nuff of this stupid thread for me .

You posted:

His statements to police were instrumental, because police backed up Zimmerman's claims, saying those screams on the 911 call are those of Zimmerman.

"When I got upstairs and looked down, the guy who was on top beating up the other guy, was the one laying in the grass, and I believe he was dead at that point," John said.

That's all well and good, but I'm still not sure people are understanding what's wrong with that.

It does not matter, if this happened after the fact of Zimmermann calling and reporting this.

You cannot legally justify use of deadly force if you actively go and pursue trouble and that then results in a situation where you have to use deadly force.

 

[BamaAla]

Well, see, yes it does.

Granted, no telephone dispatcher can stop somebody from doing what they are going to do, but it makes a huge difference when determining justification.

I held a Florida CCW for many years, and one of the legal aspects they hammered into us when taking the course for that was that if you went looking for an altercation and that led to the use of deadly force, you would not have legal protection for that.

Now, "Stand Your Ground" may have changed that, but if it did, it's not in the law where I can see it.

If you stood outside a ginmill and thought that a shady character went in the door and was going to cause trouble, you went in after him, and it ended up in a barroom brawl that you had to use deadly force to protect yourself, you would not have legal standing and would be liable to charges ranging from manslaughter to murder.

^^^^ That was the exact analogy the instructor used.

It simply isn't that black and white. There are literally thousands of possible mitigating or aggravating circumstances involved in every situation like this. Again, we do not know the intimate details of this one, so I'm not going to be manipulated by elements that make their meals doing just that.

 

[BlackTerrel]

But you yourself said that race had great deal to with it.

I didn't do a good job explaining myself. I think race is the reason Trayvon was targeted and I think race is the reason the cops let him go without investigating.

I don't think it matters if Zimmerman is white, or Hispanic, or Asian, or black for that matter. He deserves to be put to justice for what he did and I don't care what race he is.

 

[onlyrp]

But you see, it was NOT his neighborhood. He did not own it. He was a self appointed thug.

just like drivers don't own the road, it is not his, and they're self appointed users? The police have a right to be on the road?

 

[BlackTerrel]

So, you'd be just as interested in and passionate about this case, if both men were black...or if both were Hispanic?


Come on! You're not even a little bit embarrassed by you blatant intellectual dishonesty? Not even a little?

You know what there is a good chance you are right. Maybe I am more interested to this case because I can relate to it more. So be it. We all have our hot button issues. That said:

1. My motivation is irrelevant. The fact are a guy killed an unarmed teenager in cold blood and got away with it. We should all agree that is fucked up.

2. If the races were reversed (which I don't think would happen) I would still agree that it was fucked up and justice should be done. I also wouldn't detract from the thread by continuing to bring up wars in Iraq and Afghanistan that have nothing to do with the case. I would never go to a thread where a white kid was dead and say "stop crying yesterday 15 kids got killed in a drone attack in Somalia". IT IS IRRELEVANT. I would either post and say "hey this is terrible" or I would skip over it and post in other topics. I would never be a dick about it.

3. I'm pissed off that people keep writing about other topics. A kid is dead - for NO reason! You might as well tell his parents "I am sorry your son is dead but did you know that last month 45 people died in drone attacks in Afghanistan"? NOT RELEVANT. We all have our hot button issues and this is one for me but I would never be insensitive enough to post in an Afghanistan thread "who cares about Afghanistan when Travyon Martin got shot". I would either be sympathetic to the thread topic or I would ignore it. I wouldn't continually post and distract from the relevant information.

I got in the same argument with a fellow African American poster a week ago where he told me that I should stop talking about an Iranian Pastor who is being executed for his religion while I wasn't posting enough about the TSA. That too was a hot button issue for me. We all have issues that matter more or less to us. But to detract from one thread by continuously bringing up another issue is insensitive and distracting.

An unarmed teenager is dead for NO REASON. We should be able to talk about that completely separate from the issue of the war in Afghanistan.

/Vent done.

 

[BlackTerrel]

wow. the propaganda machine sensationalizes a story so there race bating employee can get them ratings all the while rallying blacks around obama for his reelection . and some of you here fall for it , i honestly held you guys to a higher standard and thought you would all see right through it .

nuff of this stupid thread for me .

I don't know a single person who wasn't going to vote for Obama before who will now. So your point is not valid.