STOP Demonizing Teachers and Cops.

[specsaregood]

THERE ARE A LOT of GOOD teachers and cops WE NEED their support to fight TYRANNY.

I have my doubts about most cops; but in regards to teachers, I couldn't agree more.

The cops and teachers are willingly working WITHIN the current "system". That makes them PART of the TYRANNY problem.<IMHO>

Many teachers just want to actually teach and like working with children. It isn't generally a career you get into to get rich. There aren't that many ways to be involved in teaching children other than to "work within the system."

 

[Todd]

I don't like the way you are shaping your argument. You need to give some specific example.

How about stop attacking supporters who speak the truth that your friends can't swallow?

He's got a point. You don't build coalitions to change things if you make it about this or that group as THE problem. In my several years as a TA in the school system, I can count very few who did not seriously desire to educate children. It was the administration and regulations that were the problems. Attacking the system is the right method. We lost alot of support during and leading up to the primaries for just this reason.

 

[newbitech]

I'm starting to think that the very people who are so hard-core about who can be in this movement and who can't, have probably never converted anyone. They're all talk and no action. If you think you can hit someone over the head with your logic and expect them to suddenly see the light, then you're a GD'd fool.

With all due respect, how can you tell that from the internet? To be fair, there are some people who I easily converted because of their crap experience with the law enforcement.

I am working on an educator right now and the biggest hang up is not the people in the movement, not even close. If I have a bad idea about something, a really good teacher is going to want to help me correct that.

No the biggest hangup is the indoctrination by far. The old school memes the blind respect that people in this country have for authority. That's the biggest hang up I have in getting this educator to change political affiliation.

 

[Deborah K]

I converted a left liberal during the presidential campaign.

I bet you didn't do it by insulting his intelligence, did you?

 

[heavenlyboy34]

YEAAAA !!!

Was it with hate ?

or

Was it with rational thought?

Rational thought-discussing RP's opinions. I hope it turned out to be permanent, but I haven't checked in with him since the campaign. (The fellow was a registered democrat and student at Phoenix College at the time. He even asked me how to register Republican to vote for RP in the primary, and I gave him info about that)

 

[newbitech]

He's got a point. You don't build coalitions to change things if you make it about this or that group as THE problem. In my several years as a TA in the school system, I can count very few who did not seriously desire to educate children. It was the administration and regulations that were the problems. Attacking the system is the right method. We lost alot of support during and leading up to the primaries for just this reason.

I am more than willing to be corrected when I am wrong. I am also completely opened minded to challenging my own personal dogmas. I just need a sliver of evidence that suggests what I "should" attack. If it's not the people who buy into the system, then please explain to me where this system is that I should attack?

Should I protest schools? Should I ask my city council to ban schools? If its the curriculum, should I ask the state re-write all of the books and tests?

What's the plan teacher? How can I help you change the system?

 

[pcosmar]

STOP demonizing neocons and communists. We should be nice to them and maybe they'll join us.

^ This +1 NOT

Originally Posted by bossman068410
No that was a gutpunch to your argument.

Our goal is to bring people into the movement not to chase them away.

I for one have no interest in "bringing people into the movement". I want them to wake the Frak up.
Once they are awake they will be in the "movement".

 

[Feenix566]

After reading through some more posts, I am done with this thread. The close-minded paranoia of some of you, Truth Warrior among a few others, disgusts me. I'm amazed that I have stuck around this long given some of the people we have to deal with on here.

Just block him. You'll enjoy this forum much more that way

 

[Kraig]

^ This +1


I for one have no interest in "bringing people into the movement". I want them to wake the Frak up.
Once they are awake they will be in the "movement".

I agree. This is not something someone takes part in because everyone is so friendly. You either get it or you don't.

 

[newbitech]

Rational thought-discussing RP's opinions. I hope it turned out to be permanent, but I haven't checked in with him since the campaign. (The fellow was a registered democrat and student at Phoenix College at the time. He even asked me how to register Republican to vote for RP in the primary, and I gave him info about that)

very similar experience here. Although I have followed up. The teacher is telling me that the challenge has not been teaching the kids, but getting the parents to change their attitudes about education in general.

For whatever reason (i think I touched on this earlier) parents (in general don't freak out I know NOT ALL PARENTS ARE LIKE THIS, I AM NOT ATTACKING PARENTS) leave the authority completely up to the schools. Parents WILL NOT CHALLENGE that authority.

 

[homah]

I for one have no interest in "bringing people into the movement". I want them to wake the Frak up.
Once they are awake they will be in the "movement".

You think you're going to "wake up" teachers and cops up by comparing them to fucking nazis?

 

[Anti Federalist]

Your pointing at the system and I agree with all the arguments.
Focus on what I'm saying about the Individuals.

I'M BEGGING to open your mind !!!
I'M BEGGING for you guys to stop the HATE !!!

PLEASE !!!!!

I understand your frustration, I really do.

But look, I can't speak for all that, generally, think the way I do, only for myself.

I've been at this a long time, and frankly, I'm tired. Tired of continually playing nice nice with people who should know better.

The ship is sinking and I've spent my time running around the decks telling everybody the ship is sinking, all the while getting mocked and scorned: "the ship's not sinking, that's a conspiracy theory, the captain says everything is fine, shut up and go away, your doom and gloom is ruining our good time".

In my mind's eye, I've now gone to lifeboats, I'm rowing away with a select few family and friends who also had the good sense to realize the ship was sinking.

But the vast majority, still in denial, won't acknowledge the ship is going down until the cold waters of death are their ankles.

By then it will be too late for them, and too late for me to help, even if I could.

Point being, the time for polite cajoling is over, whether anybody wants to admit it or not.

 

[JK/SEA]

^ This +1 NOT


I for one have no interest in "bringing people into the movement". I want them to wake the Frak up.
Once they are awake they will be in the "movement".

So, by your logic, insult them, blame them, and they will come is that it?

by the by, my wife is a 4th grade teacher, and supports Ron Paul,
and evidently a masochist.

 

[pcosmar]

You think you're going to "wake up" teachers and cops up by comparing them to fucking nazis?

Nope. I don't expect much from most of them.
Only the very few with a functioning brain.

 

[homah]

Nope.
Only the very few with a functioning brain.

So is your goal to wake people up or not? You have me confused.

Those with a brain are not going to respond to you calling them nazis.

 

[Justinjj1]

I don't think the liberty movement needs constitutional teachers.

I think you're wrong. If the liberty movement is going to be successful then then the young people need to know something about liberty and its origins, because not everyone learns it at home.

 

[Anti Federalist]

I love these arguments, I really do, only because they give me a chance to "whoop and holler".

But what I don't understand is why there has to be the argument in the first place.

There is room for and a role for, both types of people and personalities.

Prags and Three Percenters both have a role to play.

Sam Adams / John Adams...

Patrick Henry / William Otis...

You get the idea...

While I agree with you in sentiment and you know I do, there are a lot of people out there that have much weaker personalities and constitutions than many of us do. Remember that personality poll someone ran awhile back? There are a lot of followers out there and people who just lived their lives in a fog. It doesn't mean they are bad people. No, I wouldn't want to hang out with them, because one of my bad traits is that I don't suffer stupidity well, but they're not the people who have engineered this deal we're watching. Yes, they allowed it to happen. But then again, so did we.

Some of these people are starting to wake up now. Yeah, it took a steam shovel to hit them over the head, but they ARE waking up. So, we can either embrace them and teach them, or we can insult the hell out of them and make them join up with the very same people engineering our collapse.

C'mon guys, you know which one will further our goals and which one won't.

 

[bossman068410]

I understand your frustration, I really do.

But look, I can't speak for all that, generally, think the way I do, only for myself.

I've been at this a long time, and frankly, I'm tired. Tired of continually playing nice nice with people who should know better.

The ship is sinking and I've spent my time running around the decks telling everybody the ship is sinking, all the while getting mocked and scorned: "the ship's not sinking, that's a conspiracy theory, the captain says everything is fine, shut up and go away, your doom and gloom is ruining our good time".

In my mind's eye, I've now gone to lifeboats, I'm rowing away with a select few family and friends who also had the good sense to realize the ship was sinking.

But the vast majority, still in denial, won't acknowledge the ship is going down until the cold waters of death are their ankles.

By then it will be too late for them, and too late for me to help, even if I could.

Point being, the time for polite cajoling is over, whether anybody wants to admit it or not.

I can see how you feel too !!!!!!!

Every time i here about the Global Warming people I just want to punch every environmentalist in the head !!!!! It is tiring to talk about the Genocide that is being perpetrated by the banning of DDT Tens of Millions in Africa have died from these policies. All I get are eye rolls. Frustrating as hell.

 

[Truth Warrior]

Many teachers just want to actually teach and like working with children. It isn't generally a career you get into to get rich. There aren't that many ways to be involved in teaching children other than to "work within the system."

I understand that. The "system" just grinds them up, grinds them down, burns them out, chews and spits them out over time, by design.

Next "idealistic" crop, usually dumber than the last BTW.

 

[newbitech]

I think you're wrong. If the liberty movement is going to be successful then then the young people need to know something about liberty and its origins, because not everyone learns it at home.

if we don't resolve our issues soon, their won't be a constitution to teach. Even then history won't be kind to our beloved document. Read the whole post, not just selective pieces, please.

Edit: Think about it, the vast majority of folks attached, associated to, or deeply involved in this movement didn't get their ideas or learn about what is going on in school. The "system" as it is being referred to is currently set up to actively deny those young people the kind of information that would allow this movement to return the rule of law to this country. Actively denying! How does a Liberty Lover (aka RP supporter) deal with that? I have much respect for those folks, but not because they are teachers. Because they are Liberty Lovers. I cannot state my point more succinctly than that.