Stop Blaming Old People.

[zaphod2016]

Intro: I am in Central Florida, have been canvassing for months, donated at each money bomb, bought a few ads in newspapers and even paid to for a billboard beside the biggest road in town.

You know what sucks? Seeing 3% after nearly a year of dedicated work.

You know what sucks more? Seeing these forums become a "blame game" after each defeat.

Blame MSM. Blame Bush. Blame Canada.

Can we please grow up?

This us v. them, "Alex Jonesian" OMG CFR! attitude is not helping us. Rather than learn from our mistakes, some people here prefer to defend our mistakes. They view this as some sort of holy crusade. It isn't. It is an election, and our self-elected job is simple: to promote Ron Paul's platform.

Not Alex Jones' platform. Not an anarcho-capitalist platform. Ron Paul's platform.

Looking back at the "peak" of Paul-mania, it is clear to me now that about 1/3rd of our support was an Internet fad (now quickly fading to Obama), 1/3rd of our support came from "Truthers"/"Jonesians", and 1/3rd came from the ghost of Goldwater.

The problem with all three of these groups is simple: an absolute refusal to compromise.

Consider this:

Say Paul continues at this pace, and brings 5-10% of the delegates to the convention. McCain/Huckabee combine forces against Romney. Everyone else is out of the race.

Assuming everyone is short of the 1,191 delegates needed for the nomination, in a situation like this, Ron Paul can play king maker; those 5-10% of delegates can tip the scales to either the McCain camp, or the Romney camp.

Say Ron Paul agreed to embrace Romney, but only in exchange for selecting the Secretary of the Treasury of the new administration. In "normal" politics, this type of deal making is at the heart of all things.

However, I can already hear the cries of the base: Romney is a tool (true), Romney is a crook (true), unless Paul is the GOP nominee the Dems will win anyway (probably). Paul would be a sell-out to support either McCain or Romney.

Ok, fine. But what is your Plan B?

A third-party run? Folks, look at the numbers for yourself. Double them to account for vote fraud, and we are still far away from a plurality. Even when we "win", we win 2nd place with less than 20%. This is not enough to win. No matter who you blame, no matter how you spin.

Our choices are simple:

- Leverage our influence to get a piece of the winning GOP nominee

- Attempt a 3rd-party run (if the GOP nomination was a long-shot, what do we call a 3rd party run?)

- Find a charismatic and sexy person to champion a slightly more moderate version of this platform in 2012.

My plan is simple: I am going to ride-out this campaign, and wait for the flakes, the nuts, the fools and the fads to slowly fade away from it. When all is said and done, I will see who among us is left standing, and where we go from here.

I'm in this for the long haul folks, but let me be clear, I have no intention of staying in 4th place for the rest of my life. We need better spokespeople, more media outlets (stop hating the media and become the media- start a newspaper, a blog, create a documentary, etc), and a softer approach to the transition between big government and libertarian ideals.

I'm not saying we should sell our soul, join CFR, and visit the Bohemian Grove. I am saying that 80% of Americans LAUGH at those three points, and whether they are right or wrong, this is why we are losing now, and will continue to lose unless we evolve.

Yours in liberty,

Zap

 

[D B Branyers]

Most of the old people I know, especially my parents, take the media as the literal word of God. I do blame them for being parochial, completely stubborn, and childishly self-centered. I just pray that someday if I get old, that I don't behave the same way that they do.

 

[Truth Warrior]

Hmmm, gee this sounds an awful lot like me right after Goldwater lost in '64!

Deja vu, all over again.

 

[nc4rp]

how about we refer to our elders as 'senior citizens'?

and if you mention the word "old" you get banned permenently?

 

[lemur]

Intro: I am in Central Florida, have been canvassing for months, donated at each money bomb, bought a few ads in newspapers and even paid to for a billboard beside the biggest road in town.

You know what sucks? Seeing 3% after nearly a year of dedicated work.

You know what sucks more? Seeing these forums become a "blame game" after each defeat.

Blame MSM. Blame Bush. Blame Canada.

Can we please grow up?

This us v. them, "Alex Jonesian" OMG CFR! attitude is not helping us. Rather than learn from our mistakes, some people here prefer to defend our mistakes. They view this as some sort of holy crusade. It isn't. It is an election, and our self-elected job is simple: to promote Ron Paul's platform.

Not Alex Jones' platform. Not an anarcho-capitalist platform. Ron Paul's platform.

Looking back at the "peak" of Paul-mania, it is clear to me now that about 1/3rd of our support was an Internet fad (now quickly fading to Obama), 1/3rd of our support came from "Truthers"/"Jonesians", and 1/3rd came from the ghost of Goldwater.

The problem with all three of these groups is simple: an absolute refusal to compromise.

Consider this:

Say Paul continues at this pace, and brings 5-10% of the delegates to the convention. McCain/Huckabee combine forces against Romney. Everyone else is out of the race.

Assuming everyone is short of the 1,191 delegates needed for the nomination, in a situation like this, Ron Paul can play king maker; those 5-10% of delegates can tip the scales to either the McCain camp, or the Romney camp.

Say Ron Paul agreed to embrace Romney, but only in exchange for selecting the Secretary of the Treasury of the new administration. In "normal" politics, this type of deal making is at the heart of all things.

However, I can already hear the cries of the base: Romney is a tool (true), Romney is a crook (true), unless Paul is the GOP nominee the Dems will win anyway (probably). Paul would be a sell-out to support either McCain or Romney.

Ok, fine. But what is your Plan B?

A third-party run? Folks, look at the numbers for yourself. Double them to account for vote fraud, and we are still far away from a plurality. Even when we "win", we win 2nd place with less than 20%. This is not enough to win. No matter who you blame, no matter how you spin.

Our choices are simple:

- Leverage our influence to get a piece of the winning GOP nominee

- Attempt a 3rd-party run (if the GOP nomination was a long-shot, what do we call a 3rd party run?)

- Find a charismatic and sexy person to champion a slightly more moderate version of this platform in 2012.

My plan is simple: I am going to ride-out this campaign, and wait for the flakes, the nuts, the fools and the fads to slowly fade away from it. When all is said and done, I will see who among us is left standing, and where we go from here.

I'm in this for the long haul folks, but let me be clear, I have no intention of staying in 4th place for the rest of my life. We need better spokespeople, more media outlets (stop hating the media and become the media- start a newspaper, a blog, create a documentary, etc), and a softer approach to the transition between big government and libertarian ideals.

I'm not saying we should sell our soul, join CFR, and visit the Bohemian Grove. I am saying that 80% of Americans LAUGH at those three points, and whether they are right or wrong, this is why we are losing now, and will continue to lose unless we evolve.

Yours in liberty,

Zap

Zap, I appreciate your efforts on Dr. Paul's behalf. However having come into the campaign from the AlexJonsian side . . . .

I'm not here to merely win an election, I'm trying to save my life, my family & loved ones lives, and preserve the freedoms that I hold sacred.

Your suggestion that Dr. Paul should broker his delegates is . . . well IMHO sort of amusing, since from what I know of Dr. Paul he's not the type of person to play that type of compromise game. I can't imagine that he'd be willing to throw his support behind either of the alleged front runners, and I wouldn't ask him to do it. What part of McCain, Romney and Huckabee are corrupt don't you get?

I'm hoping he'll decide to run 3rd party (despite the fact that I know the elections are rigged).

As for waiting for 2012, I don't think we HAVE till 2012. At the rate our rights are being abridged, we'll be lucky if they don't start opening the FEMA camps before the next election. Ron Paul might not make a good figurehead for the Libertarians. I'm not a Libertarian, so I honestly don't care about that. I support Dr. Paul because of what he stands for - truth, honesty and a return to the Constitution.

Find a sexier person to champion the cause? To me, Ron Paul is entirely sexy. LOL and I don't mean that in a sexual manner. He's brilliant, mentally stimulating and champions the Constitution. More than that he's got a 20 year track record of honesty in government.

Are you actually suggesting that some "figurehead" can beat that?

 

[Nicholai]

Its just foolish. Ive lived in Florida all my life.

The problem isnt Old People, its the Media that they watch and trust.

The elderly here do not know how to use computers very well, the majority do not even own one nor want to mess with them.

They refuse to want to learn, and dont want to change their ways.

Its a fact.

Blame the Media.

They can share the blame with the media if they refuse to learn. Watching and trusting the main stream news networks is no better than thinking cartoons are based on facts.

 

[Molly1]

well here's the deal. The old people on fixed income are going to get crushed because right now the fed is dropping his pants (fed rate) at the same time the dollar is tanking. And, the scary thing about it is that this is his best choice given the circumstances we've been put in.

So they are going to simultaneously have less income and the income they get will be worth less.

Think that would do it? No?

Keep voting for the warmongers, old people, all the way to poverty.

Because it's not just the kids you are hurting, it is yourselves.

There is only one candidate who has your best interests at heart, and if you won't vote for him, you'll find you're on your own.

 

[nodope0695]

Stop looking for people to blame Damn it!

Get off of the F**king computer and begin fixing what's wrong!

I am so sick of the "I'm entitled to a better world and higher,
cleaner standard of living" mealy mouthed younger crowd.

If you don't like the way things are change them!
Stop your bitching and fix it or STFU!

Who's looking? I found them. All the people who voted for McCain, Romney, or Ghouliani are SHEEP. Those are the ones the media propped up. And, I'm sorry, most of those people happen to be old coots who have refused to think critically, and for themselves. The media is to blame too, but nobody helt those people down and forced them to vote the way they did. I bet if any of them took ten minutes to look at each candidates records, Ron Paul would have won.

 

[Molly1]

Who's looking? I found them. All the people who voted for McCain, Romney, or Ghouliani are SHEEP. Those are the ones the media propped up. And, I'm sorry, most of those people happen to be old coots who have refused to think critically, and for themselves. The media is to blame too, but nobody helt those people down and forced them to vote the way they did. I bet if any of them took ten minutes to look at each candidates records, Ron Paul would have won.

You'd think that they would hear Ron Paul's message that the middle class is being wiped out. You don't have to be a brain surgeon to understand that, just try paying your bills every month.

You would think they would at least ask: Why?

 

[amp]

The only common denominator between old people is they are all on drugs. Its easy to say they are at least numbing, but safe to assume they are mind numbing. So theres a higher chance they believe anything they hear.

I think they still live in the past, slowly corrupted by the suggestions of what to think by the media. Just tell them, "if you listened to me 8 hours a day and i slowly and suggestively hammered my agenda towards you, you would eventually change all your viewpoints about life and agree with me." And you are a sad human being for assuming you still have mental sovereignty.

 

[Molly1]

The only common denominator between old people is they are all on drugs. Its easy to say they are at least numbing, but safe to assume they are mind numbing. So theres a higher chance they believe anything they hear.

I think they still live in the past, slowly corrupted by the suggestions of what to think by the media. Just tell them, "if you listened to me 8 hours a day and i slowly and suggestively hammered my agenda towards you, you would eventually change all your viewpoints about life and agree with me." And you are a sad human being for assuming you still have mental sovereignty.

"mental sovereignty"...that's a great term. Hard to come by in a world that runs on propaganda.

I guess only God can drop the scales from our eyes. But, 'mental sovereignty' should be everyone's highest goal in a free society. It takes a kind of courage which is natural to the young, but maybe those older need some help to come by it.

2 Corinthians 3:17
Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.

 

[webber53]

Who's looking? I found them. All the people who voted for McCain, Romney, or Ghouliani are SHEEP. Those are the ones the media propped up. And, I'm sorry, most of those people happen to be old coots who have refused to think critically, and for themselves. The media is to blame too, but nobody helt those people down and forced them to vote the way they did. I bet if any of them took ten minutes to look at each candidates records, Ron Paul would have won.

blandae mendacia linguae

 

[Truth Warrior]

FACTOID: On average 12,000+ boomers turn 50 every day. We have also now reached the point in time that, on average, 12,000+ boomers turn 60 every day too.

Have a good one!

 

[bjrnet]

The ONLY way Ron Paul can win!!!!

... The problem isnt Old People, its the Media that they watch and trust. ...

I absolutely agree. My Wife and I have several friends who are over 80 years old... and yes, they are voters.

Get out and just talk to them. They are very easy to convince!!!!!!!!!

It has been said over and over in these forums and on the official campaign site that the MOST IMPORTANT WAY and probably the ONLY WAY we can win is by "talking" and canvassing people. Here are the most important things you can do to support Ron Paul with canvassing being the most important.

1) Become a precinct leader on http://ronpaul2008.com .

2) Join and volunteer in a Ron Paul http://www.meetup.com group in your area.

3) Canvass (talk to) your friends and neighbors and spread the word of Ron Paul's campaign.

4) Donate to the official campaign at http://ronpaul2008.com .

5) Support a grassroot effort of your choice with your time and money

6) Buy Ron Paul signs and bumper stickers for you and your friends. Place them in your yard and spread the message.

7) Support your polling place on election day. Take the day off, wave signs, hand out slim-jims and give your all!

Michael Dalton
http://www.bjrnet.com/ronpaulblimps

 

[D B Branyers]

Get out and just talk to them. They are very easy to convince!!!!!!!!!

http://www.bjrnet.com/ronpaulblimps

I disagree. The old folks that I've talked to seem to resent younger people trying to sway their thinking. They get bitter and nasty when you talk to them about the farcical "War On Terror". And they positively hate it when you badmouth Bush. They are stubborn for no good reason at all. But beneath the surface, it is obvious they are deathly afraid of something.

 

[FreeTraveler]

I disagree. The old folks that I've talked to seem to resent younger people trying to sway their thinking. They get bitter and nasty when you talk to them about the farcical "War On Terror". And they positively hate it when you badmouth Bush. They are stubborn for no good reason at all. But beneath the surface, it is obvious they are deathly afraid of something.

Listen, "junior," it's obvious from your post what's wrong, and it's not the old folks. I also resent younger people "trying to sway my thinking" instead of discussing issues calmly and logically. I'd get bitter and nasty with some young punk calling the deaths of my sons and grandsons a "farcical War on Terror."

I have a lot of practical reasons that I hate Bush, Jr. & Sr., but I expect people I'm talking to, to respect the office, if not the man.

It's very obvious from your post that you think "discussing" is what you see on Jerry Springer, Oprah, and Dr. Phil. That kind of "discussion" is not going to win over anybody over 20, or with an IQ over 80.

Yes, the old folks are afraid of something... seeing the country in the control of adolescents who, because they were educated in government schools, haven't the slightest knowledge of respect, manners, or logical thinking processes, and instead go by their gut instinct and their training by government nannies.

 

[D B Branyers]

Listen, "junior," it's obvious from your post what's wrong, and it's not the old folks. I also resent younger people "trying to sway my thinking" instead of discussing issues calmly and logically. I'd get bitter and nasty with some young punk calling the deaths of my sons and grandsons a "farcical War on Terror."

I have a lot of practical reasons that I hate Bush, Jr. & Sr., but I expect people I'm talking to, to respect the office, if not the man.

It's very obvious from your post that you think "discussing" is what you see on Jerry Springer, Oprah, and Dr. Phil. That kind of "discussion" is not going to win over anybody over 20, or with an IQ over 80.

Yes, the old folks are afraid of something... seeing the country in the control of adolescents who, because they were educated in government schools, haven't the slightest knowledge of respect, manners, or logical thinking processes, and instead go by their gut instinct and their training by government nannies.

Are you in the right forum? Regardless, thank you for proving my point.

Back OT though. All I've had to do in some instances was mention RP's name and it was enough to send the fogey into a hissy fit.

 

[FreeTraveler]

Are you in the right forum? Regardless, thank you for proving my point.

Back OT though. All I've had to do in some instances was mention RP's name and it was enough to send the fogey into a hissy fit.

Yes, I'm in the right forum, you little turd. I voted for Dr. Paul in 1988, when you were obviously still in diapers. The only point I proved is that you don't have the first idea of how to have a reasoned discussion on the issues. (Gee, I bet this sounds a lot like you when you try to tell OLD FOLKS they are idiots.)

 

[bjrnet]

Talking to people

I disagree. The old folks that I've talked to seem to resent younger people trying to sway their thinking. They get bitter and nasty when you talk to them about the farcical "War On Terror". And they positively hate it when you badmouth Bush. They are stubborn for no good reason at all. But beneath the surface, it is obvious they are deathly afraid of something.

NO! When I talk to my elders I try to understand them first! When I say talk.... I mean really talk to them --- NOT about Ron Paul. Get them to like you first.

Only when someone likes you for who you are will you be able to get your ideas across.

Talk about the issues first. Don't even mention Ron Paul's name until you understand how they feel about the issues.

AND.... don't bad-mouth Bush to a person who loves Bush! Stick to the issues!

Michael Dalton
http://www.bjrnet.com/ronpaulblimps

 

[D B Branyers]

NO! When I talk to my elders I try to understand them first! When I say talk.... I mean really talk to them --- NOT about Ron Paul. Get them to like you first.

Only when someone likes you for who you are will you be able to get your ideas across.

Talk about the issues first. Don't even mention Ron Paul's name until you understand how they feel about the issues.

AND.... don't bad-mouth Bush to a person who loves Bush! Stick to the issues!

Michael Dalton
http://www.bjrnet.com/ronpaulblimps

I appreciate your enthusiasm, but I'm worn out from trying.