Shooter at DC Navy yard

[fearthereaperx]

Millions are on SSRI's. If SSRIs cause people to become killers, we should have millions of killers in the country. Do we?

Suicide is on the rise. And one of SSRI's side effects is suicidal ideation. Suicide by cop is another way to commit suicide.

 

[better-dead-than-fed]

Let's look at the two within the past ten years:

- Dorner was being treated for mental health issues. Most likely he had been on SSRIs.
- Nidal Hasan was a psychiatrist who very likely had taken SSRIs. As a gross generalization, psychiatrists are more prone to having mental issues, and have access to the cookie jar.

Circumstantial evidence, but when the information is kept confidential and the media has a vested interest in not reporting on it, how much evidence do you expect to be available?

I do believe, btw that SSRI's can increase one's tendency to commit irrational violence; and I do believe that SSRI-producers and government and its media have an interest in obscuring that quality of SSRI's, and have acted on that interest. We are probably in pretty close agreement on everything being discussed here, but for a few details.

That said, "mental health issues" is vague. It is defined officially to include things that are not crazy:

DSM-IV-TR (p. xxxi) defines "mental disorder" to include:

a... behavioral... pattern that occurs in an individual and that is associated with... a significantly increased risk of suffering... an important loss of freedom.

Under this definition,

• civil disobedience
• whistleblowing
• smoking pot
• failing to obey an unlawful command from police

are mental disorders, since the government will take your freedom if it catches you doing those things.

Another mental disorder is demanding a trial if you are accused of a crime. If you are accused and you demand a trial instead of pleading guilty, you increase the risk of a serious loss of freedom, (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showth...rgains-The-bastardization-of-the-legal-system) and so your failure to plead guilty is a mental disorder. I have seen a case where an accused person decided he wanted a trial, and the government called his decision a mental disorder, denied him a trial, and committed him for trying to exercise his constitutional right to a trial.

Such a conception of "medicine" is definitely arbitrary and unscientific.

... and in practice, crazy government employees who do crazy things for a living somehow escape the "mentally ill" label, and they endlessly escape the "treatment" which they desperately need. For examples, see almost any thread in this forum.

The evidence that Dorner and Hasan were taking SSRI's, as far as you have posted, seems weak to me. On the other hand, they both appear to have had reasons for their actions, and their reasons don't show any disorder in their thought processes.

And I am not saying that every person who has ever killed other people has had mental issues and been on SSRIs. In the past, it has usually been the mental issues alone.

What is the basis for your opinion here?

And I am not including wars or various other "fights".

You lost me here. Are you saying that a shooting spree is less crazy if it's ordered by Congress or the President and labelled a "war"? Are you saying Jefferson's shooting spree was crazy, because it was not state sponsored?

Edited later to note: The DSM-IV-TR also says (p. xxxi):

Conflicts that are primarily between the individual and society are [generally not] mental disorders.

 

[ClydeCoulter]

I'm starting to get nervous because I'm starting to make sense of your ranting, better_dead_than_fed.

I do enjoy rollercoasters, let's see where this ends.

 

[Peace Piper]

The majority on SSRIs are not paranoid schizophrenic.

You do know what a side effect is?

Millions of people eat peanuts. A few die from it.

Suicide is probably a bigger problem with SSRIs. You won't hear about that on CNN, unless it's the occasional report about how many veterans (probably on SSRIs) commit suicide.

Here's some evidence (sourced with links to original and sortable database )

http://ssristories.com/index.php

 

[ThePenguinLibertarian]

I thought guns are banned in DC... how is this possible?

well, the media could say he brought guns from his home or had a professional license. But they'll sitll pin it on gun owners.

 

[ThePenguinLibertarian]

What percentage of mentally disturbed get treated for it and are on SSRI's? 25%, 50%, 75%, 100%
And, what ever that is, shouldn't it be reflected statistically?

The correct word is ILL. Sick.
No national statistics. some some 1 in 10, but you will have to email the NIH or CDC on that.

 

[ThePenguinLibertarian]

The majority on SSRIs are not paranoid schizophrenic.

You do know what a side effect is?

Millions of people eat peanuts. A few die from it.

Suicide is probably a bigger problem with SSRIs. You won't hear about that on CNN, unless it's the occasional report about how many veterans (probably on SSRIs) commit suicide.

Huh, Cite source please. Here is some sources i found. You won't like the source. http://psychnews.psychiatryonline.org/newsarticle.aspx?articleid=181262
Apparently, efficacy is highest when you are severly depressed. I doubt this person is servely depressed or even ill. This could be a result of blowback.
Another thing is paranoid schizophrenia. Most schizophrenics (let alone paranoid ones) are non violent and are more harmful to themselves. This person has to have some degree of sanity to carry out a complex plan. My guess would be CIA blowback. Most schizophrenics are on anti-psychotics, not SSRIs. He would have also recieved ECT if it was that bad.

 

[better-dead-than-fed]

... Dorner was being treated for mental health issues....

... when the information is kept confidential and the media has a vested interest in not reporting on it...

... I am not saying that every person who has ever killed other people has had mental issues and been on SSRIs. In the past, it has usually been the mental issues alone....

p.s.

The government-medical complex doesn't just have an interest in covering up the dangers of SSRI's. It also has an interest in falsely diagnosing people with mental disorders, so that it can sell more drugs at least; and this interest is hardly checked.

If a person has shot government employees, the government's interest in falsely painting him as mentally disordered increases still.

 

[devil21]

Millions are on SSRI's. If SSRIs cause people to become killers, we should have millions of killers in the country. Do we?

I agree with you Zippy but for reasons you probably don't agree with.

 

[J_White]

The reality is that the ball will often be dropped. There is no perfect security, there is no perfect back-ground check process. The world is not a perfect place, and bad things happen. No amount of money spent, or liberties denied, or Police State and Martial law implemented will change that basic fact of reality.

What is guaranteed is that these Police State surveillance tactics will be used for political and prurient reasons. Another law of nature.

c'mon, there IS perfect security. how about this. cameras in every houses and covering all places outside.
everyone having GPS chips with a small taser inside it.
if u do something bad, the taser gets triggered and disables u.
see, now lets just decide secretly, what "bad" acts trigger the taser, pay money to "security companies", everything will be fine.

 

[jtstellar]

arg someone summarize this thread?

i don't know how people find so much interest in shooting incidents.. it's not even a successful push for gun story this time. the ar-15 claim was debunked under 24 hours

 

[kcchiefs6465]

arg someone summarize this thread?

i don't know how people find so much interest in shooting incidents.. it's not even a successful push for gun story this time. the ar-15 claim was debunked under 24 hours

They are pushing for more than just an AWB.

A rhetorical question but have you not been following the news?

Anyways, I haven't read all thirty pages of this but of lot of the discussion is on discrepancies and possible causes or motivations. Of course there is the usual timeless admission that government is wholly incompetent for not finding this man's background and related gun incidents. SSRIs, mass murder suicide pills, the usual. I think something of this man's microwave talking to him but I'm not sure.

They are pushing for background checks for private sales, more extensive drug and mental health history being included in background check, and other measures that will infringe on the Second Amendment. The man bought a Remington 870 legally at a store. Clearly something has to be done that doesn't include allowing soldiers to carry ammunition in their firearms. A nurse told me so.

 

[RPfan1992]

The left keeps blaming right wingers for mass shootings but his friend describes him as a "liberal".

 

[jtstellar]

They are pushing for more than just an AWB.

A rhetorical question but have you not been following the news?

Anyways, I haven't read all thirty pages of this but of lot of the discussion is on discrepancies and possible causes or motivations. Of course there is the usual timeless admission that government is wholly incompetent for not finding this man's background and related gun incidents. SSRIs, mass murder suicide pills, the usual. I think something of this man's microwave talking to him but I'm not sure.

They are pushing for background checks for private sales, more extensive drug and mental health history being included in background check, and other measures that will infringe on the Second Amendment. The man bought a Remington 870 legally at a store. Clearly something has to be done that doesn't include allowing soldiers to carry ammunition in their firearms. A nurse told me so.

i watch more msm to keep a pulse on the mass and what they're "trying to push" than most people here i am confident of that lol..

today when i turned on news there was not a blip about this in either channel. that already tells me how successful this whole thing is, whatever they're trying to push, by inference.

 

[devil21]

Hat tip to a thread on GLP for this interesting tidbit. Notice anything?

------------------

Same guy?

 

[ClydeCoulter]

@devil21,
Something doesn't look right about the lighting on the guys face in the 2nd pic compared to everyone else in the picture. Is that 2nd pic verified to original (ie, other versions of same pic) But, the guy right rear doesn't either, hmmmm

edit: I just found another picture from a different angle of same location, that guy is in it too, although I can't tell, tbh, if it is the guy from the Navy Yard, from either picture.

 

[presence]

Suicide is probably a bigger problem with SSRIs. You won't hear about that on CNN, unless it's the occasional report about how many veterans (probably on SSRIs) commit suicide.

CNN’s Dr. Sanjay Gupta looks at the roles of trauma and medication as a “common factor” in tragedies similar to the Sandy Hook shooting. SSRIs have been shown to carry a risk of increased impulsivity, says Dr. Gupta, and points out that “over a 7-year period, there were 11,000 incidences of violence” connected with SSRIs, many of them suicides.

http://www.madinamerica.com/2013/01/cnns-dr-gupta-on-trauma-medication-suicides-school-shootings/

NEW YORK (CNN/Money) - Paxil, a blockbuster antidepressant from British drug maker GlaxoSmithKline, increases the risk of suicide in adults, according to a study by Norwegian researchers

http://money.cnn.com/2005/08/22/news/international/paxil/index.htm

Suicide risk and antidepressants The Food and Drug Administration (FDA) requires that all antidepressants carry a warning that some children, adolescents and young adults may be at increased risk of suicide when taking antidepressants. Anyone taking an antidepressant should be watched closely for worsening depression or unusual behavior — especially in the first few weeks after starting an antidepressant. Keep in mind, antidepressants are more likely to reduce suicide risk in the long run by improving mood.

http://www.cnn.com/HEALTH/library/ssris/MH00066.html

 

[devil21]

@devil21,
Something doesn't look right about the lighting on the guys face in the 2nd pic compared to everyone else in the picture. Is that 2nd pic verified to original (ie, other versions of same pic) But, the guy right rear doesn't either, hmmmm

You can see the black man in other Boston pictures so he's not a complete photoshop job, at least. Whether it's Alexis or not, dunno. Sure does look like him though and it fits the trend of seeing of the same people popping up at many of these "events" lately. eta: I bet the shading difference is because the two men in the back are standing under an awning or similar.

The ears look different in these pics but the mugshot could also have been altered. Just thought it was interesting.

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[kcchiefs6465]

Video footage of gunman at Navy Yard.