Secessionists formally launch quest for California's independence

[The Gold Standard]

An outlier to some posting here but closer to the beliefs of the Pauls in a Ron Paul Forum.

You could be right, but I don't recall anything Ron Paul ever said that would lead me to believe he would favor forcing California to remain in the union if they wanted to leave.

 

[kahless]

Yes. Maintaining the strong, central government is the key. Works much better than these libertarian pipe dreams.

I never said that. I have repeatedly already said a national union only for military defense and immigration. Allow the states and regions to secede and form their own solutions. It is you and others here promoting California secession as a whole therefore denying the counties and regions their own right to self determination.

 

[The Gold Standard]

Paul: Secession 'deeply American'

http://www.politico.com/story/2012/11/ron-paul-secession-is-a-deeply-american-principle-084058

By Kevin Cirilli

11/19/12 04:43 PM EST

Rep. Ron Paul (R-Texas) said Monday that secession was a “deeply American principle,” amid a growing number of people petitioning the White House to let their states secede from the U.S.

“Secession is a deeply American principle. This country was born through secession. Some felt it was treasonous to secede from England, but those ‘traitors’ became our country’s greatest patriots,” the former presidential candidate wrote in a post on his House website. “There is nothing treasonous or unpatriotic about wanting a federal government that is more responsive to the people it represents.”

He continued: “If the possibility of secession is completely off the table there is nothing to stop the federal government from continuing to encroach on our liberties and no recourse for those who are sick and tired of it.”

An outlier to some posting here but closer to the beliefs of the Pauls in a Ron Paul Forum. I am for greater individual liberty for people by breaking CA into smaller pieces as opposed to those who want it to leave in one piece to become a threat to the rest of us.

Oh. Looks like you were wrong.

 

[Anti Federalist]

You could be right, but I don't recall anything Ron Paul ever said that would lead me to believe he would favor forcing California to remain in the union if they wanted to leave.

He's not.

See post 80.

Ron Paul fully endorses the idea of secession.

 

[The Gold Standard]

I never said that. I have repeatedly already said a national union only for military defense and immigration. Allow the states and regions to secede and form their own solutions. It is you and others here promoting California secession as a whole therefore denying the counties and regions their own right to self determination.

I'm not denying them anything. If there was a movement for counties breaking away from California, I would support that too. I am always in favor of secession, all the way down to the individual. California's status in the union has zero bearing on whether or not counties and regions could secede from California.

 

[The Gold Standard]

He's not.

See post 80.

Ron Paul fully endorses the idea of secession.

Yes, I see. I'm out of rep for you.

 

[Anti Federalist]

I never said that. I have repeatedly already said a national union only for military defense and immigration. Allow the states and regions to secede and form their own solutions. It is you and others here promoting California secession as a whole therefore denying the counties and regions their own right to self determination.

Well, get that Jefferson nation going up north.

Sorry if you're going to get dragged along with LA, San Fran and San Diego...but not that sorry.

#CalExit Now

 

[Jamesiv1]

And what does that mean?

no kidding lol

"state and local governments can determine their own destinies while being embounded by the FedGov"

lol

 

[kahless]

Paul: Secession 'deeply American'

http://www.politico.com/story/2012/11/ron-paul-secession-is-a-deeply-american-principle-084058

By Kevin Cirilli

11/19/12 04:43 PM EST

Rep. Ron Paul (R-Texas) said Monday that secession was a “deeply American principle,” amid a growing number of people petitioning the White House to let their states secede from the U.S.

“Secession is a deeply American principle. This country was born through secession. Some felt it was treasonous to secede from England, but those ‘traitors’ became our country’s greatest patriots,” the former presidential candidate wrote in a post on his House website. “There is nothing treasonous or unpatriotic about wanting a federal government that is more responsive to the people it represents.”

He continued: “If the possibility of secession is completely off the table there is nothing to stop the federal government from continuing to encroach on our liberties and no recourse for those who are sick and tired of it.”

If you asked Ron Paul whether the counties or regions in CA should be allowed to secede or only California as a whole, what do you think he is going to say? This is why I said I am closer to beliefs he has preached over the years that the more local the better which got us to this point in the thread.

 

[Anti Federalist]

If you asked Ron Paul whether the counties or regions in CA should be allowed to secede or only California as a whole, what do you think he is going to say? This is why I said I am closer to beliefs he has preached over the years that the more local the better which got us to this point in the thread.

I think he would say GO!

 

[kahless]

I think he would say GO!

Yep, which I agree. I am not saying deny them as a whole but rather breaking CA into pieces provides greater liberty and is less of a threat to those within CA and outside California.

To take it a step further I would sabotage them leaving as a whole to achieve the greater goal of having them leave in pieces.

 

[Anti Federalist]

http://www.yescalifornia.org/

THE CASE FOR INDEPENDENCE IN 9 SIMPLE POINTS

Being a U.S. state is no longer serving California’s best interests. On issues ranging from peace and security to natural resources and the environment, it has become increasingly true that California would be better off as an independent country. Here’s a summary of why we think so.

1. PEACE AND SECURITY
The U.S. Government spends more on its military than the next several countries combined. Not only is California forced to subsidize this massive military budget with our taxes, but Californians are sent off to fight in wars that often do more to perpetuate terrorism than to abate it. The only reason terrorists might want to attack us is because we are part of the United States and are guilty by association. Not being a part of that country will make California a less likely target of retaliation by its enemies.

2. ELECTIONS AND GOVERNMENT
California’s electoral votes haven’t affected a presidential election since 1876. On top of that, presidential election results are often known before our votes are even counted. So, why should we keep subjecting ourselves to presidents we play no role in electing, to 382 representatives and 98 senators we can’t vote for, and all the government officials and federal judges appointed by those very same people we don’t elect.

3. TRADE AND REGULATION
The U.S. Government maintains a burdensome trade system that hurts California’s economy by making trade more difficult and more expensive for California’s businesses. As long as California remains within this burdensome trade system, we will never be able to capitalize on the trade and investment opportunities that would be available to us as an independent country. On top of that, the United States is dragging California into the Trans-Pacific Partnership agreement which conflicts with our values.

4. DEBT AND TAXES
Since 1987, California has been subsidizing the other states at a loss of tens and sometimes hundreds of billions of dollars in a single fiscal year. As a result, we are often forced to raise taxes and charge fees in California, and borrow money from the future to make up the difference. This is partly why California presently has some of the highest taxes in the country, and so much debt. Independence means that all of our taxes will be kept in California based on the priorities we set, and we will be able to do so while repaying our debts and phasing out the current state income tax.

5. IMMIGRATION
California is the most diverse state in the United States and that is something we are proud of. This diversity is a central part of our culture and an indispensable part of our economy. As a U.S. state, our immigration system was largely designed by the 49 other states thirty years ago. This immigration system has since neglected the needs of the California economy and has hurt too many California families. Independence means California will be able to decide what immigration policies make sense for our diverse and unique population, culture, and economy, and that we’ll be able to build an immigration system that is consistent with our values.

6. NATURAL RESOURCES
Certain minerals and other natural resources like coal, oil, and natural gas are being extracted from California at below market value rates by private corporations with the permission of the U.S. Government. While a small portion of the revenue is shared with us, our share has been withheld during times of sequestration. That means the U.S. Government is paying their debts with royalties collected from selling off California’s natural resources. Independence means we will gain control of the 46% of California that is currently owned by the U.S. Government and its agencies. We will therefore take control of our natural resources and be the sole beneficiary of royalties collected if and when they are extracted from our lands.

7. THE ENVIRONMENT
California is a global leader on environmental issues. However, as long as the other states continue debating whether or not climate change is real, they will continue holding up real efforts to reduce carbon emissions. The truth is this country accounts for less than five percent of the world’s population yet consumes one-third of the world’s paper, a quarter of the world’s oil, 27 percent of the aluminum, 23 percent of the coal, and 19 percent of the copper. Independence means California will be able to negotiate treaties to not only reduce the human impact on our climate but also to help build global resource sustainability.

8. HEALTH AND MEDICINE
The Affordable Care Act was enacted by the U.S. Government to lower the cost of health care and expand health insurance coverage to the uninsured, yet millions of Californians still lack access to quality health care because they can’t afford it. For many, access to hospitals and medicine is a life or death issue. Independence means we can fund the health care programs we want and ensure everyone has access to the medicines they need because our taxes will no longer be subsidizing other states. Finally, California can join the rest of the industrialized world in guaranteeing health care as a universal right for all of our people.

9. EDUCATION
California has some of the best universities but in various ways, our schools are among the worst in the country. Not only does this deprive our children of the education they deserve, but it also costs taxpayers billions in social services and law enforcement expenses linked to lacking opportunities resulting from poor education. Independence means we will be able to fully fund public education, rebuild and modernize public schools, and pay public school teachers the salaries they deserve. On top of that, independence means freedom from federal education policies and one-size-fits-all standards set by political appointees on the other side of the continent.

 

[The Gold Standard]

Yep, which I agree. I am not saying deny them as a whole but rather breaking CA into pieces provides greater liberty and is less of a threat to those within CA and outside California.

Um, you are saying break it into pieces while remaining under the control of the U.S. federal government. In other words, exactly what they are not asking for.

 

[Anti Federalist]

Yep, which I agree. I am not saying deny them as a whole but rather breaking CA into pieces provides greater liberty and is less of a threat to those within CA and outside California.

Once they CalExit, then they can do just that.

 

[kahless]

Um, you are saying break it into pieces while remaining under the control of the U.S. federal government. In other words, exactly what they are not asking for.

Keep a military and immigration alliance. I know it does not meet the text book definition of libertarism or what they want but it is the best solution strategically long term to achieve and preserve some form of libertarian society with the US borders. Otherwise through massive immigration, outside threats and influence it could not survive against California fascism.

CA leaving as a whole rather than in pieces would be a powerful fascist regime that would be a threat to the rest of the nation.

 

[kahless]

Once they CalExit, then they can do just that.

If California was some sort of libertarian paradise I would be all for it since it would a shining light example to the rest of the US. CA on the other hand could lead the example of fascism for the rest of America to emulate.

 

[The Gold Standard]

Keep the military and immigration alliance. I know it does not meet the text book definition of libertarism or what they want but it is the best solution strategically long term to achieve and preserve some form of libertarian society with the US borders. Otherwise through massive immigration, outside threats and influence it would not survive.

CA leaving as a whole rather than in pieces would be a powerful fascist regime that would be a threat to the rest of the nation.

LOL. Ok.

 

[Anti Federalist]

If California was some sort of libertarian paradise I would be all for it since it would a shining light example to the rest of the US. CA on the other hand could lead the example of fascism for the rest of America to emulate.

With California gone, the rest of the US could maybe start working on that.

And once the ball starts rolling...Ill-Exit, Texit, NYExit...

 

[kahless]

LOL. Ok.

Keep laughing and playing your racists under the bed witch hunt. You provide another example of the reason why libertarians never gets more than a few percent in elections nationally and across the US. It is unfortunate that many whom hold libertarian ideology clutch to textbook definitions and propaganda rather than address and think strategically against how the real world prevents the ideology from being implemented.

Maybe that is intentional, it keeps libertarians as useful tools to be used when needed and ensures they never maintain or achieve their societal goal.

 

[Anti Federalist]

Jerry Brown: If Trump Wins, We’ll Build a Wall Around California

http://www.breitbart.com/big-govern...trump-wins-we-build-a-wall-around-california/