Ron's final four minutes - he nailed it!

[Ron Paul Fan]

But there is a world of difference between saying what you believe to be untrue, and needlessly shooting yourself in the foot.

"Pandering" is not a dirty word. Pandering is what wins elections. It means understanding your audience, framing your issues in your favor, and presenting a winning message.

People on these forums cheer when Dr. Paul says things that needlessly offend and alienate the very voters he will need if he is to have any chance to win the nomination. Don't cheer for that. This isn't a national speaking tour. This is an election.

I get the impression that many of Ron Paul's supporters are more than happy to continue to financially support him just to conduct a national lecture circuit. Not me.

Ron Paul is not a typical politician and I think that is a big part of his appeal to many on this forum. I don't know how he could have framed issues better in his favor when part of the debate was a yes/no response! Was he suppose to vote yes on undermining our liberties or going into other countries unjustly? That's not what he believes in and no one here would expect him to do that and many would be upset at him for doing so. Dr. Paul did well at the Christian forum by bringing up the just war theory of Christianity and the Prince of Peace. People on this forum cheer not when he alienates voters, they cheer when he stands up for what he believes in! Vote Ron Paul if you want an honest man who promotes liberty!!!!!!!!!

 

[torchbearer]

Remember, those 40 Ron Paul backing christians are not going to stay silent among their peers.

 

[quickmike]

Reality isn't a troll.

Ron Paul is a candidate for the Republican nomination for president.

The purpose of attending this debate was to win over as much of the audience as possible to support him in this endeavor.

This debate was watched and listened to primarily by religious conservatives.

By choosing to present his stances divisively without understanding and adapting to his target audience by framing the issues in a winning message, Dr. Paul hurts himself more than helped.

Attentive religious conservative voters, who just like most voters are not politically savvy, will come away from tonight's debate under the impression that Ron Paul supports illegal pornographers, defends the so-called homosexual agenda, supports indecency on our televisions, turns a deaf ear to slavery and suffering around the world, and believes that our troops are dying in vain in Iraq in an immoral and un-Christian war.

Right or wrong, correct or incorrect, these are the impressions of Dr. Paul that politically unsophisticated religious conservative voters will take away from this debate, because rather than present a winning message, rather than avoid divisive issues, and rather than articulately frame his stances in a positive light, Dr. Paul presented a mixed and confusing message without a satisfactorily articulated explanation.

These are the stances that will alienate religious conservative voters in 2008. Alienating these voters is what threatened to lose Bush the presidency in 2004, and lost the Republicans control of Congress in 2006.

IT'S NOT WHAT YOU SAY, IT'S WHAT PEOPLE HEAR.

overblown spending and the Iraq war lost it for congress in 06, not the religious right turning on them.

 

[Triton]

Ron Paul did not nail it...

I wish he had.

Don't get me wrong - I agreed with every word he said. I, howver, am not the one who needs convincing.

In the AFA debate, Dr. Paul was addressing a large audience which has forgotten one thing: the culture war should not be fought in Congress. He spent 4 minutes railing against the Federal Reserve, against the "war", and against the torture of people who killed 3,000 Americans. What he should have said is this: our truth needs no government to validate it. Our truth thrives through oppression, through hard economic times, and is seen as just even to those who do not believe. We have a government which does not reflect a Christian culture because we (Christians) have failed to win our culture on a personal level. He might have even quoted 2 Chronicles 7:14. When we use the government to change culture, we are using the very same tyranny which gave us Roe vs Wade and which gave Germany its gas chambers.

 

[slantedview]

He did fine. I'm saddened by the fools who booed the only Christian thing he said.

His Christian bit about how he believes Christ preaches PEACE, not war, got cheers.

 

[0zzy]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WRi8tswSkB4

 

[goldenequity]

Audio Posted: Ron Paul Voter Values Debate (18 min.)

Audio Posted:

Ron Paul Voter Values Debate 091707 (18 min)

HERE

3 Hours to capture 18 minutes.....Ron must be wiped out.... I KNOW I am :o

He did great!

randy

 

[quickmike]

When we use the government to change culture, we are using the very same tyranny which gave us Roe vs Wade and which gave Germany its gas chambers.

Heres the problem.................


Their response - "well, the difference between us christians and Germany is that were right, and woud not use our powers in a hurtful way"

True, they might not, but the people they elect very possibly and most likely will. Thats what the extreme right just will not accept.


you cant win that argument with people that use their morality as their gauge of what government should do.

Ron did the only thing he could possibly do in this situation.......... tell the truth.

I commend him for that and would expect nothing less.

 

[jonahtrainer]

Heres the problem.................


Their response - "well, the difference between us christians and Germany is that were right, and woud not use our powers in a hurtful way"

True, they might not, but the people they elect very possibly and most likely will. Thats what the extreme right just will not accept.


you cant win that argument with people that use their morality as their gauge of what government should do.

Ron did the only thing he could possibly do in this situation.......... tell the truth.

I commend him for that and would expect nothing less.

I agree. The Germans have no one to blame but themselves.

"In these three decades I have been actuated solely by love and loyalty to my people in all my thoughts, acts, and life. They gave me the strength to make the most difficult decisions which have ever confronted mortal man. I have spent my time, my working strength, and my health in these three decades.

It is untrue that I or anyone else in Germany wanted the war in 1939. It was desired and instigated exclusively by those international statesmen who were either of Jewish descent or worked for Jewish interests." Last Political Testament

 

[Matt]

I agree. The Germans have no one to blame but themselves.

"In these three decades I have been actuated solely by love and loyalty to my people in all my thoughts, acts, and life. They gave me the strength to make the most difficult decisions which have ever confronted mortal man. I have spent my time, my working strength, and my health in these three decades.

It is untrue that I or anyone else in Germany wanted the war in 1939. It was desired and instigated exclusively by those international statesmen who were either of Jewish descent or worked for Jewish interests." Last Political Testament

WTF? Wrong forum, go back to stormfront.

 

[Paulitician]

If Ron had pandered, I'd have stopped all support for the campaign.

That is not Ron. He is a man of integrity, not a lying sack of shit that will say whatever it takes to get votes from special interest groups.

Indeed, I was afraid that after I watched this debate, I would have had to stop supporting him. I now have absolutely no doubts about our man. He is a stone, stands his ground well.

 

[philipsantamaria]

Bam!!!! from L-R...My brother Peter, Ron Paul, and me.

I had to sit through 2 1/2 hours of Christian Right crap (no offense to any of you guys).

My brother and I snuck up to the front row of the debate and were screaming shit after other candidates were talking.

When Duncan Hunter was saying we couldn't leave Iraq without Victory, I screamed out, "HOW!? HOW ARE YOU GOING TO DO IT?!!! HOW?!?!"

Hunter fucking looked at me straight in the eye and gave me an I HATE YOU LOOK

Alan Keyes, the guy who ran against Obama and lost for Senator...he just announced, and in his final speech and actually the final speech of the debate...was saying that WITHOUT GOD, WE'D HAVE NO LIFE, NO HAPPINESS, NO LIBERTY...

I screamed out, first row mind you,

LIBERTY OR DEATH! LIBERTY OR DEATH!

All the people asking questions and like half the candidates looked at me. Ron was smiling. Keyes is a fucking douchebag.



After the debate, we met up with the rest of the Ron Paul supporters at a bar, and Ron stopped by...Met him again, told him what Gandhi said. I put my hand on his shoulder and said, "Dr. ..First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win." He said, "If we keep it up we'll do very well! We've raised almost $400,000 in the past few days in the tour to San Fran, Salt Lake City, and Seattle."

Guy is the sweetest guy ever... But he's inspiring as all hell.

 

[ronpaulitician]

My brother and I snuck up to the front row of the debate and were screaming shit after other candidates were talking.

When Duncan Hunter was saying we couldn't leave Iraq without Victory, I screamed out, "HOW!? HOW ARE YOU GOING TO DO IT?!!! HOW?!?!"

Hunter fucking looked at me straight in the eye and gave me an I HATE YOU LOOK

Nice job, but don't do that to John Kerry

 

[Bryan]

My brother and I snuck up to the front row of the debate and were screaming shit after other candidates were talking.

When Duncan Hunter was saying we couldn't leave Iraq without Victory, I screamed out, "HOW!? HOW ARE YOU GOING TO DO IT?!!! HOW?!?!"

I totally heard that clear as day. Hunter did stall for sure...

Nice picture...

 

[austinphish]

My brother and I snuck up to the front row of the debate and were screaming shit after other candidates were talking.

When Duncan Hunter was saying we couldn't leave Iraq without Victory, I screamed out, "HOW!? HOW ARE YOU GOING TO DO IT?!!! HOW?!?!"

Hunter fucking looked at me straight in the eye and gave me an I HATE YOU LOOK

.

Total LOL. that is my humor highlight of the day. thanks, I freaking love this campaign!

 

[beermotor]

some of those idiots would boo Jesus himself if he showed up and came out against the war

I think that's in the Bible, too.

Unfortunately for them.

 

[beermotor]

I get the impression that many of Ron Paul's supporters are more than happy to continue to financially support him just to conduct a national lecture circuit. Not me.

Shit, count me in that pile. If you're so narrowly focused on just one dumb election, you really are missing the point. In a big, big way. This is about reaching critical mass, and then ALL ELECTIONS will be won, everywhere. That's the goal. As a campaign we are far more ambitious than just one stupid guy for one stupid office.

Ron Paul is doing a fantastic job and I have yet to see him "shoot himself in the foot" as you claim. People have been saying that after EVERY SINGLE DEBATE performance and guess what? The Freedom Train keeps rolling along, doesn't it?

 

[BarryDonegan]

he dominated this event. he is with them on what they consider "core issues" aka abortion, nonviolence, compassion, he is obviously an honest man with the sortof family values lifestyle to which people in that subculture would aspire.

if you think the average christian conservative is HEAVILY OPPOSED to pornography on a legal, federal level, or heavily opposed to the legality of vice, that has no real place in the message of christianity. Christianity preaches against lifestyles centered around that, as much as they preach against lifestyles centered around money, but you wont see churches swearing off its usage.

the war is going to be a conflict for any christian more than pornography is. especially when you're presented with the fact that your presence there may be unjustified.

i think they would consider these things fringe issues when you compare them to the clear, documented honesty and ethics that ron paul portrays. he is also more similar to Jesus in the way he deals with the lack of popularity of his philosophies early on and his commitment to them in the face of adversity.

people know when they're being pandered to , and even though they like it for a minute or two, it shows naked the persons character. obviously huckabees pandering shows he is at least talking the talk, thus the better performance, but a REALLY good performance at values voters alienates you from every other american citizen, where as an ABOVE AVERAGE showing there, still shows you sticking to your guns and saying, hey, im down w jesus, and the peace and all that, but your not gonna get me to persecute homosexuals and all that

 

[literatim]

The four-minute end speech was adrenaline pumping.

 

[JS4Pat]

How on earth does a room full of "Christians" boo a message of Peace and Diplomacy and cheer War and Death?

Jeesh - People claim that the Republican Party has lost its way - What about Christianity?