Ron Paul needs a stronger argument

pmbug

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Having discussed Ron Paul with a few lifelong Republican voters, the big problem IMO is that Ron Paul has not won the debate on:
  • non-interventionism vs. interventionism - The cold war may be over, but many Republican voters that I'm talking to see Ron Paul's platform to completely withdraw the military and foreign aid as emaciating the USA's ability to influence world affairs. Ron has talked about blowback and such, but it has not convinced older folk who believe the USA's interventionist history has largely been the correct course.
  • Keynesian economics vs. Austrian School/gold standard - The Republicans voters I have talked to believe that Keynesian economics has been proven better than the gold standard which was in use during several depressions leading up to the Great Depression.
  • 100% individual freedom/property rights vs. "some" social program safety nets - Everyone likes to rail against the cost of entitlement programs, but I think most secretly believe that government should not stand by and let people starve to death. Ron Paul's stance on strict property rights is seen as tolerating/supporting racism.

Unless the message from the campaign changes, I think Ron Paul has likely hit the ceiling of his support. The issues I outlined above are deal breakers for the Republican voters that I have encountered. I'd like to hear from anyone else who is talking to long time Republican voters.

Also, most of the people I talk to see Ron Paul as an extremist. He really needs to communicate that he is (or can be) pragmatic - ie. that the changes he wants may not be 100% possible solutions, but he will move in those directions. I have heard him intimate this in a few interviews, but he needs to communicate it clearly, forcefully and often IMO.
 
No, that is not what I said. Have you talked to any long time Republican voters?
 
No, that is not what I said. Have you talked to any long time Republican voters?

Some. I get what you are saying though about many voters you consider themselves to be conservatives really are just that, in the literal sense. They are comfortable conserving the status quo. They don't want anymore statist programs, but they have become comfortable with the ones they already have.

Are you suggesting that RP needs to change the underlying content of his message, or just its packaging? If packaging I agree 110%.
 
Mostly packaging. He needs to win the debate on the deal breaking issues and talk more about his transition plans.
 
I agree. He needs to move beyond the shock-value lines and start providing detailed arguments. Only problem is: How do you do that in 30sec sound bites?
 
3 Stronger Arguments

1. What, exactly, is intervention? Here are two popular examples:

The government demands that I turn over a portion of my income to cover the cost of public services like roads, police, and domestic welfare programs. The government then gives part of that money to foreign dictators who tend to be the worst enemies of any foreign citizens I’d want to assist. Alternatively, they borrow money from China – a foul dictatorship if ever there was one – give it to third world dictators, then tell me in so many words that China will seize all my funds if they don’t use my money to pay the interest on their debt.

The President has clearly been representing the interest of corporations like Shell, which wants oil rights in Iraq. The President sardonically (laughing at our stupidity) announces that Saddam Hussein has “weapons of mass destruction,” deposes Hussein, slaughters at least 151,000 Iraqi civilians (450,000 according to the Johns Hopkins report), then arranges for the Iraqi government to “introduce a law that will give Western oil companies rights to the country’s huge oil reserves” (CBS News, January 8, 2007).

Older people who believe we’ve been taking the correct course may have been referring to World War II. Here’s some of what happened behind the scenes there. Perhaps it will sound familiar. In 1927, a British chemist named Gordon Alles rediscovered amphetamines, which had been briefly discovered and forgotten in 1887. Then, in 1932, a U.S. pharmaceutical company bought the patent to the discovery and began marketing it as an inhaler in a nasal decongestant. People soon learned that the active ingredient in the inhalers produced a flood of energy, and in no time, amphetamines were being marketed for a host of other ailments: morning sickness, car sickness, obesity, and, of course, depression. We now know that amphetamines are likely to result in quasi-psychotic aggression if used repeatedly, and may even trigger prolonged psychotic episodes. Perhaps that explains what went on when sales skyrocketed and 180 million amphetamine pills were manufactured and distributed to English, German, Japanese, and American soldiers – most notably, Adolph Hitler, who was receiving daily methamphetamine injections in 1942. The question is, should the U.S. have played the big hero in World War II or should it have assumed some responsibility for everyone’s actions? You can’t tell me that in 1942, the pharmaceutical industry had no idea what its drugs were doing.

2. The gold standard ended in 1913 with the Federal Reserve Act. The Federal Reserve Act enabled special interest groups (in particular, the U.S. government) to purchase goods and services with money they hadn’t earned. With no increase in goods and services, that worked just like outright theft. Less privileged people were more and more impoverished. So when various businesses used inflationary gains to increase their own productivity, they discovered that consumers weren’t as wealthy as they’d supposed and they went broke. Keynesians have been saying that increased productivity is always good regardless of the basis for it, but we need only imagine – in keeping with the facts – larger and larger injections of unbacked currency to see what would actually happen. Suppose the government decided that an ordinary pebble would or should be worth as much as a gold nugget. How much richer would people get? Overnight, prices would rise so high that increases in productivity on the part of foolish businesses wouldn’t make any difference. People can understand that instinctively. The big, clumsy words Keynesians use were designed to obscure our instincts.

A Neocon might still be wondering about the term “recession.” A recession is simply the beginning of a depression – a depression the Federal Reserve usually decides to postpone by printing more unbacked currency and handing it out in the form of loans and welfare to impoverished consumers who then buy the goods and services they felt they couldn’t afford, thereby rescuing the said foolish businesses until it’s time to repay all the loans. Keynesians want to chop out part of this syndrome – the part where we’re busily spending new money – and use it as evidence in favor of “elastic” currency. What does “elastic” mean in that context, though? There’s more and more and more of it; that’s all. Why don’t they turn pebbles into diamonds while they’re at it? I’ll pick up a handful and be fabulously wealthy, I’m sure.

3. There are three points I’d like to argue with regard to entitlement programs. First, an overwhelming number of disabled people would be, in a free society, able to provide for their needs through lawsuits. That case can be made through the misdeeds of the pharmaceutical industry alone. Big Pharma has been using the United States government to place itself above the law while it progressively slaughtered millions of trusting people. Second, politicians with the means to help or harm the vulnerable haven’t proven any wiser or kinder than private charities or families. They’ll pay for a meal today and execute a “useless eater” tomorrow. Countless people with mental illnesses were offered shelter then used for sadistic experiments (http://www.newstarget.com/z019189.html). Third, survival of the fittest is all we get on planet Earth. This isn’t Heaven. One hundred years of socialism have merely produced tabloid royalty, not equality. In the next century, we can either do what comes naturally through laws that limit the power “the fittest” have over the vulnerable, or we can allow the fittest limitless license in the form of an omnipotent government.
 
The quick message is return the government to the people to which it belongs.No other canidate wants to do that.
 
He needs a catch phrase like Teddy Roosevelt's "Speak softly and carry a big stick."

We need to brainstorm.
 
I agree with noztnac. RP's stance of a strong defense and diplomatic solutions is better than an unorganized offense and shoot first mentality. "Walk softly and carry a big stick," is indeed the best way to bridge the gap with what people think Ron is saying to what Ron's true stance.

If this is not the idea that jump starts people's perceptions to think better of RP then Dr. Paul needs to start talking about how he is going to continue keeping our country safe, rather than talking about how bad a decision it was for us to go into Iraq. He needs to show how he is going to be the toughest against terrorists and also relate how the U. S.' continued plan of keeping our forces in Iraq is severely going to limit our ability to fight terror abroad if there really is another threat, both in the sense that we don't have enough soldiers and how it is bankrupting our economy.
 
Armed neutrality... I like it! Since when is minding our own business translated to, we won't be ready if need be?
 
Armed neutrality sounds good.


To turn it slightly around, for those who may still consider him too much of a softie, how about reiterating that he is the only one that wants to go after Al-Quada directly, and not start suddenly shooting at countries that had nothing to do with you-know-which-event. If I've read it correctly (sorry forgotten where), that point was hotly debated after some primary speech.

This might be hard to counter for many a pro-war, but not outright necon, conservative. Hard to get those votes, but those come in handy as well.
 
  • non-interventionism vs. interventionism - The cold war may be over, but many Republican voters that I'm talking to see Ron Paul's platform to completely withdraw the military and foreign aid as emaciating the USA's ability to influence world affairs. Ron has talked about blowback and such, but it has not convinced older folk who believe the USA's interventionist history has largely been the correct course.
  • Keynesian economics vs. Austrian School/gold standard - The Republicans voters I have talked to believe that Keynesian economics has been proven better than the gold standard which was in use during several depressions leading up to the Great Depression.
  • 100% individual freedom/property rights vs. "some" social program safety nets - Everyone likes to rail against the cost of entitlement programs, but I think most secretly believe that government should not stand by and let people starve to death. Ron Paul's stance on strict property rights is seen as tolerating/supporting racism.

Be nice about this, very nice, but if you want to have a little fun and get under their skin, remember to tell them how much you respect their right to be a liberal Republican, even if you think your conservatism is the better and morally right approach. If you make the arguments others are suggesting here to sway them while also gently pointing out how they're actually more like a Democrat, you'll have planted a seed of doubt that won't wash away as easily. :)
 
Armed neutrality sounds good.


To turn it slightly around, for those who may still consider him too much of a softie, how about reiterating that he is the only one that wants to go after Al-Quada directly, and not start suddenly shooting at countries that had nothing to do with you-know-which-event. If I've read it correctly (sorry forgotten where), that point was hotly debated after some primary speech.

This might be hard to counter for many a pro-war, but not outright necon, conservative. Hard to get those votes, but those come in handy as well.

Point out the truth, that having our armed forces mired in Iraq, for example, has left our own borders wide open and is costing us trillions of dollars and thousands of troops at a time when our economy is being strained and recruitment is down. In other words, our border security and national defense are being weakened due to an overextended military. It's like we've put up a big target sign on our most vulnerable spots, on top of which we're basically selling our children's futures to the Chinese to finance the status quo, considering how much they lend to us.

Also, the terror threat is a new war requiring new strategies. Small-scale and tactical operations are the way to beat a stateless enemy, including the use of letters of marque and reprisal, as Paul has proposed. Invading and occupying entire countries is an outdated mentality, especially now that the Cold War is over. We still need, and don't have in Iraq, clear mission objectives for our men on the ground to work with.
 
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