Ron Paul: Israel is Our Close Friend

[furface]

Again im not for any aid or support to Israel but simply doing the opposite by attacking it, supporting its enemies, delegitimizing it etc. is not better and is contrary to libertarian foreign policy principles.

Zionism correlates almost 100% with a breakdown of logic & reason. I'll demonstrate that here. The opposite of giving aid to Israel is to not give aid to Israel. Discussing Israel's legitimacy is entirely within the scope of libertarian principles. The legitimacy of all governments is suspect within libertarian frameworks.

You're also implying that somehow not supporting Israel supports its enemies. How can bringing up arguments against Israel's legitimacy support Israel's enemies unless those arguments are correct? Discussing and bringing up arguments supports nothing unless such arguments are correct. Again, irrational Zionists are terrified of free conversations.

 

[FrankRep]

+ Rep.

Thank you.

 

[ClydeCoulter]

Shit, FrankRep...you just can't stand it.... (that +rep was from 2011, any excuse to start another fight)

 

[kcchiefs6465]

Shit, FrankRep...you just can't stand it.... (that +rep was from 2011, any excuse to start another fight)

Hell, at least it's not another Glenn Beck mirage.

Israel should have no place in lobbying our Congress to do their bidding. We should have no place in dictating to Israel how they handle their disputes.

It's really that simple. Oh, and we definitely shouldn't be giving them billions a year or anyone else foreign aid for that matter. What was is, something like $3,000 for every man, woman, and child in Israel? [I can't remember the specific number, but it was around there]

An attack on Israel is not an attack on the United States. An attack on Israel is an attack on Israel. No matter who the hell thinks they are a chosen people.

 

[Brett85]

Oh, come on, you make it sound like that is the predominant theme. Most here are noninterventionist, across the board, and consider Israel an ally, but also a focus for trouble for us, since we tend to do idiotic things around that relationship. A couple or few, max are 'anti-Israel'.

No, it's been confirmed that 62% here are anti Israel.

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?405536-The-final-opinion-on-Israel/page7

 

[ClydeCoulter]

Hell, at least it's not another Glenn Beck mirage.

Israel should have no place in lobbying our Congress to do their bidding. We should have no place in dictating to Israel how they handle their disputes.

It's really that simple. Oh, and we definitely shouldn't be giving them billions a year or anyone else foreign aid for that matter. What was is, something like $3,000 for every man, woman, and child in Israel? [I can't remember the specific number, but it was around there]

An attack on Israel is not an attack on the United States. An attack on Israel is an attack on Israel. No matter who the hell thinks they are a chosen people.

The problem as I see it, is that we have already armed Israel "to the teeth", maybe we should be somewhat responsible about that. It's all fair and well for Israeli supporters to want to "stay out of their business" after giving them the upper hand.

And, I understand why many Christians support Israel. They don't understand that the state of Israel has nothing whatsoever to do with the Israel mentioned in the bible, reguardless of whether any of that in the bible is true or not.

edit: Oh, and Traditional Conservative, I didn't vote in that poll and there are probably others that didn't.

 

[sailingaway]

No, it's been confirmed that 62% here are anti Israel.

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?405536-The-final-opinion-on-Israel/page7

Those polls are such a tiny percent of the people who come here they are completely invalid. Self selected polls are not statistically reliable, by definition.

And 'anti' itself is such a vague word. I have nothing against Israel, but I get pretty irritated when people think we need to treat them like the 51st state -- or the first state. I think we get in a lot of wars supported by the public only because Israel is involved. I am not against them, but I am starting to get a sort of impatient feeling about them, like if the friend you go out with habitually gets you pulled into trouble with them.

Having said that, they are an 'ally' and I recognize that.

I just don't think they should be the cornerstone of our foreign policy they seem to be, to our detriment.

 

[Brett85]

Those polls are such a tiny percent of the people who come here they are completely invalid. Self selected polls are not statistically reliable, by definition.

And 'anti' itself is such a vague word. I have nothing against Israel, but I get pretty irritated when people think we need to treat them like the 51st state -- or the first state. I think we get in a lot of wars supported by the public only because Israel is involved. I am not against them, but I am starting to get a sort of impatient feeling about them, like if the friend you go out with habitually gets you pulled into trouble with them.

Having said that, they are an 'ally' and I recognize that.

I just don't think they should be the cornerstone of our foreign policy they seem to be, to our detriment.

I still haven't seen any evidence that the Iraq War ever had anything to do with Israel. I don't recall the Israeli government ever pushing us to start that war. I certainly don't know what war Israel has pushed us into in the past. They may be trying to push us into a war with Iran, but that hasn't happened yet.

 

[sailingaway]

I still haven't seen any evidence that the Iraq War ever had anything to do with Israel. I don't recall the Israeli government ever pushing us to start that war. I certainly don't know what war Israel has pushed us into in the past. They may be trying to push us into a war with Iran, but that hasn't happened yet.

I remember stuff before Iraq, and they didn't send soldiers because it would be polarizing.... but I'm not saying everything we do is about them. I am saying neocons USE the RHETORIC of 'for Isreal' to justify what they do, and it gets results amongst evangelicals.

 

[FrankRep]

The media will have a field day when they see a growing number of Ron Paul supporters becoming anti-Israel and with some even crossing into anti-semitism.

He's a Zionist ass kisser. That's why he's voting against Hagel.

 

[ClydeCoulter]

The media will have a field day when they see a growing number of Ron Paul supporters becoming anti-Israel and with some even crossing into anti-semitism.

Define "anti-semitism" (as you are using it).

 

[sailingaway]

The media will have a field day when they see a growing number of Ron Paul supporters becoming anti-Israel and with some even crossing into anti-semitism.

If that fake image concerns you why do you keep picking fights about this?

 

[kcchiefs6465]

The problem as I see it, is that we have already armed Israel "to the teeth", maybe we should be somewhat responsible about that. It's all fair and well for Israeli supporters to want to "stay out of their business" after giving them the upper hand.

Very true. Never forget, 'they' hate us for our freedom.

And, I understand why many Christians support Israel. They don't understand that the state of Israel has nothing whatsoever to do with the Israel mentioned in the bible, reguardless of whether any of that in the bible is true or not.

This annoys me to no end. Supposed christians all the more willing to send someone else's kids to die for a country of supposed 'chosen people.' That's the thing that gets me. Chickenhawks have no problem drumming up support for these illegal wars.

As sailingaway said in one of her posts I am getting impatient. I have nothing against the people of Israel, as a collective, but this idea that they should have our unwaivering support is fucking sickening. Even members here seem to feel we are justified or even obligated to defend Israel when they do the kind of shit they do. I'm getting tired of this. And I am not of the politically correct, fear of being branded, republicrats. Soon it will be simply 'f*** Israel' whenever the topic arrives.

Sad day on RPF when people are unaware of the war crimes that that State has committed, the problems they have created, and the shit they constantly stir.

 

[libertyjam]

"Keep your friends close, Keep your enemies even closer"

 

[FrankRep]

If that fake image concerns you why do you keep picking fights about this?

Someone needs to defend Israel, especially since Ron Paul is supportive of Israel.

 

[sailingaway]

Someone needs to defend Israel, especially since Ron Paul is supportive of Israel.

You aren't defending it, you are setting it up as a punching bag, the way you bait people.

 

[Brett85]

Even members here seem to feel we are justified or even obligated to defend Israel when they do the kind of shit they do.

Or they just think that it's none of our business, since part of non interventionism is staying out of the internal affairs of other nations.

 

[kcchiefs6465]

Someone needs to defend Israel, especially since Ron Paul is supportive of Israel.

Supportive of them leaving our politics the fuck alone, and supportive in the sense of them being independent. Spin it how you wish, Israel would be better off because of this.

I am supportive of Israel as well. [them being independent]

 

[kcchiefs6465]

Or they just think that it's none of our business, since part of non interventionism is staying out of the internal affairs of other nations.

Traditional Conservative- Kind of like the holocaust?

I still fail to understand how one atrocity being committed against a certain group of people is relevant to their government committing atrocities against another group of people. Or rather, how that excuses it, as you defensively seemed to suggest.

 

[Brett85]

I still fail to understand how one atrocity being committed against a certain group of people is relevant to their government committing atrocities against another group of people. Or rather, how that excuses it, as you defensively seemed to suggest.

I don't accept the premise of your statement that Israel has committed "atrocities" against anyone.