James Madison
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Any way I can buy back from a buy back?
Rocket launchers during gun buy-back? I'm calling Bull@%&T
- Thread starter nobody's_hero
- Start date
kahless
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When I heard about the buy back program I thought there would be media spin and as soon as I saw this headline yesterday I called bullshit.
Some church in Indy had one last winter for $50 , so I had one for $75
my Foundation, of course .
Anti Federalist
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Without looking at the picture or reading the story yet, that is my first guess as well.
The launcher tubes are classified as a "non gun" by ATF IIRC.
Just worthless piece of fiberglass pipe without the projectile.
Anti Federalist
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I scored a nice Argentinian Mauser 20 plus years ago exactly under the same circumstances.
The cops were offering $25, I paid the nice old lady $50.
You did good . You are a Patriot .
NC Liberty
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There is another pic of this launcher that I have seen. The cop is holding it at a different angle and the side of the tube blatantly says TRAINER. As in, it was never a real rocket launcher.
tangent4ronpaul
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2 words: John Kerry. Anybody remember a bit of a controversy over his fully automatic war souvenir?
grenades and sometimes claymores are very common war souvenirs.
I'm definitely calling BS on this too! I saw 2 previous articles on this buyback and neither mentioned a rocket launcher. Also look at that video. They claim people turned in hundreds of "assault weapons". Did ya see all the AK's and mac 10's and M1 carbines, and HK's an... umm, yeah - neither did I. I did see a table full of AR's though... now who has AR's? lots and lots of AR's... like one in every trunk... ???
here are some rocket launcher tubes for sale:
http://www.gunsamerica.com/919578499/M72_LAW_ROCKET_TUB.htm
http://www.armslist.com/posts/284607/south-west-florida-misc-for-sale--m72-law-rocket-tube
http://phoenix.backpage.com/MiscForSale/200-m72-law-launcher/16670833
http://www.gunauction.com/buy/7701299/militaria/vietnam/m72-law-with-m190-subcaliber-training-device
http://www.riverratsairsoft.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1983
http://www.gunauction.com/buy/11041...relics-rifles/law-he-66-rocket-launcher-m72a3
http://www.gunauction.com/buy/11049...r/russian-rpg-7-inert-rocket-launcher-w-scope
http://www.gunstar.co.uk/Rocket-Launchers-for-sale/Gun-Search.aspx?id=95&category=Rocket-Launchers
http://www.armslist.com/posts/29669...-trade--m72a1-law-rocket-launcher-vietnam-era
http://special-technics.com/multipl...0-grad-multiple-rocket-launcher-for-sale.html
OMG! - ME WANTS!!!!
and it's even in .50BMG! drewel - current bid is $15,000
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=323083172
WWII Hotchkiss Mle 1934 anti-tank gun. Beautiful live fire cannon chambered in 50bmg. Rounds cost $3 each, as compared to the 25mm rounds that cost $110 each. The gun is in fantastic condition, both cosmetically and functionally. Elevation and traversing gears operate smoothly in all directions. Gun and carriage weigh approximately 1000 pounds. Overall length of the gun is 12 feet and it is 3.5 feet wide. It is possible for one person to move this gun around and set it up by themselves. Very accurate, affordable, and fun gun to shoot. Live ammunition can be used for shooting at targets, or blank ammunition can be used for salute firing, parade use, theatrical use, or for reenacting. No special federal paperwork required for purchase. This cannon is considered a single shot rifle by ATF, and would transfer to an individual on a standard 4473. Gun must be shipped to FFL license holder. Please feel free to ask any questions. I accept cashier's checks and credit cards for payment. Pickup in person would be fine, or I can crate and ship it to you via freight to anywhere in the continental US. Crating/shipping will be done at buyer's expense. No international shipping.
ya think SWAT would think twice about paying you a visit if you parked one of these in your front yard?
and over here is a 81mm mortar...
U.S.G.I. M1 81MM MORTAR (TITLE ONE) THIS 81MM MORTAR IS A SHARP EXAMPLE -- THE ARTICLE HAS A DEWAT/DEMILLED TUBE, AS PER AFT SPECS, AND CAN BE TRANSFERRED LIKE ANY OTHER STANDARD RIFLE OR SHOTGUN, ON AN ATF FORM #4473 (YELLOW FORM) THIS 81 HAS AN ORIGINAL UNCUT BASE, COMPLETE GI BIPOD, BASE PLATE AND SITE ASSY. THIS IS A TITLE ONE FIREARM THAT IS TRANSFERABLE ANYWHERE STANDARD FIREARMS ARE ALLOWED. NOTE: BY FILING AN ATF FORM #1 THIS FIREARM COULD BE LIVENED UP TO A DESTRUCTIVE DEVICE ... EXC CONDITION $2895(DD1-48)
or you could just follow the plans in this book and build one from scratch:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/6115753/the-poor-mans-armorer-vol-2-110-kurt-saxon
Personally, I think it would be a lot of fun to fuck with the cops at a gun buyback... you know - for YouTube... first person = 8yo w/ bb gun, second person .50 cal BMG, third person a RPG, forth person a mortar, fifth person a pulsed laser cannon...
and this was supposed to be a "no questions asked" event... oddly that phrase is missing from this article, but is in the others...
-t
Last edited:
Anti Federalist
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and over here is a 81mm mortar...
Pfffftt...I've seen three inch fireworks launchers with more "beef" to their construction.
Anti Federalist
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and this was supposed to be a "no questions asked" event... oddly that phrase is missing from this article, but is in the others...
Humph, yeah they all say that, but it's bullshit.
Either they are checking these weapons and ballistics or they are potentially committing a slew of felonies by destroying evidence.
Icymudpuppy
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There are two different kinds of AT4 training tubes. One is just an empty tube with sights and the hardware necessary to operate the four steps of operation. The other is used on the range for target practice and actually fires a 9mm round which has approximately the same ballistics as an AT4 rocket in terms of drop. If it is the latter, it technically would be a firearm. Though those training tubes are kept in the arms room.
tangent4ronpaul
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related as far as gun spin goes. Unfortunately, the ABC clip was taken down by the network. To be fair, the writer is spinning it himself, about how odd and unusual the grenade launcher they found was. They are not that rare.
http://soldiersystems.net/2010/01/31/how-to-really-get-a-grenade-launcher/
How to REALLY Get a Grenade Launcher
It is important that you watch the ABC News segment, “How to get a grenade launcher” before you read this so that you will be in the proper frame of reference.
Paul Harvey had it right with his famous tagline, “And now for the rest of the story.”
To begin with I have to say that I still am perplexed as to why they bothered with the story at all. Early last week a Sailor, Absent Without Leave from the Navy was apprehended by the Police while in the possession of two Bushmaster carbines with the serial numbers removed as well as a “grenade launcher” initially believed to be an M-203 but later determined to be a 37mm flare launcher by the ATF. It is my understanding that ABC News was told repeatedly that the item at issue was not a weapon at all but rather a novelty item, a flare gun built to resemble a military issue M203 grenade launcher. ATF does not classify the 37mm flare launcher as a weapon.
I spoke with the segment’s producer Lauren Pearl, and she was very polite but I could tell she was agitated that I had contacted her. Fair enough and I can appreciate that. No one wants to explain why they did things the way that they did and that is precisely what I asked of her. Her initial answer was that there was only one minute to present the data but after pressing her on the issue, she stated, “I don’t know why.”
At the crux of this issue is how the information was presented. After watching the piece I came away with the impression that you could do an internet search, pick up the phone and just buy one of these “killer weapons.” However, after doing some checking, I have found that this is hardly the case.
Ms Pearl did tell me that the information in the piece was correct and she is right. They did seek out the assistance of an expert. The Sportsman Channel’s “Ammunition Expert”, Larry Vickers is well known in the small arms industry and deals with far more than ammunition. In fact, he’s an internationally recognized expert and the host of two TV shows dealing with small arms. Unfortunately, after showing 12 seconds of expert testimony on how difficult it is to purchase a grenade launcher, the segment’s host, David Cuomo essentially refuted Vickers’ assertions by telling us that a vendor selling destructive devices said that “the only restrictions were that a buyer had to be a resident of a state that allows them to have a grenade launcher, and most states do, and they need a gun permit.”
So, in order to find out if the information presented to me was true, I did exactly the same thing the correspondent did in the segment. I googled “Grenade Launcher” and came up with well over one million hits. Then I googled “Grenade Launcher for sale” and only came up with 181,000 choices. Of those only a few were actually for the sale of real honest-to-goodness grenade launchers. The rest offered airsoft versions or the dreaded 37mm flare launchers that inspired the piece.
After some checking, I was able to ascertain that Mr Cuomo was seeking information on the DD1-152 M203 Grenade launcher offered for sale by Autoweapons.com. What makes this story even more convoluted is that the model that he chose was built specifically to fit on a rare foreign weapon; the AK4 Swedish variant of the HK G3. This makes it even more useless to the casual buyer as one would then need to purchase the proper base weapon to mount the M203 to, in this case an AK4. Naturally, this means more red tape and rules.
And purchasing an actual M-203 40mm grenade launcher is hardly the end of it. To make it a “killer weapon” one would require ammunition. Each round requires exactly the same process to purchase as the launcher itself. That’s right, $200 tax stamp for each individual round, more fingerprints, more background checks, more waiting. This may be why you don’t see neighbors blowing each other up with 40mm grenades. The ATF does a great job of regulating the transfer of these devices. The reality is that they are far from easy to purchase, and you certainly can’t order one over the phone or internet.
If the problem with the segment was that there was only one minute to present the data, then perhaps the answer was to provide more time so that terms like “gun permit” could be adequately explained as an ATF Form 4, payment of a $200 transfer stamp, background check to include fingerprints, and a wait of several months while a national agency check is conducted and the application is processed. And, on top of all of this, you have to be in a state that allows the individual to possess a destructive device like a grenade launcher. Or, maybe if the one minute is not negotiable an alternative would be to perhaps let the expert speak rather than some talking head ask about color options like he is picking out a new scooter. Either one of these options would have resulted in more facts being presented.
In the end, the ABC piece is much ado about nothing. They were informed by experts that there was no story there yet they proceeded anyway. However, I will admit that they did do their research and they did tell us that in order to purchase a grenade launcher “the only restrictions were that a buyer had to be a resident of a state that allows them to have a grenade launcher, and most states do, and they need a gun permit.” They just failed to explain what that meant leading viewers to the false conclusion that grenade launchers are as simple to purchase as a pair of shoes. They also failed to mention that while most states allow private ownership of destructive devices, neither New York City, where ABC News is located, nor the state of New Jersey where the AWOL Sailor was apprehended do. Too bad they didn’t have more time to more accurately portray the issue.
So what is the verdict? Can individuals run out and purchase grenade launchers? No.
-t
http://soldiersystems.net/2010/01/31/how-to-really-get-a-grenade-launcher/
How to REALLY Get a Grenade Launcher
It is important that you watch the ABC News segment, “How to get a grenade launcher” before you read this so that you will be in the proper frame of reference.
Paul Harvey had it right with his famous tagline, “And now for the rest of the story.”
To begin with I have to say that I still am perplexed as to why they bothered with the story at all. Early last week a Sailor, Absent Without Leave from the Navy was apprehended by the Police while in the possession of two Bushmaster carbines with the serial numbers removed as well as a “grenade launcher” initially believed to be an M-203 but later determined to be a 37mm flare launcher by the ATF. It is my understanding that ABC News was told repeatedly that the item at issue was not a weapon at all but rather a novelty item, a flare gun built to resemble a military issue M203 grenade launcher. ATF does not classify the 37mm flare launcher as a weapon.
I spoke with the segment’s producer Lauren Pearl, and she was very polite but I could tell she was agitated that I had contacted her. Fair enough and I can appreciate that. No one wants to explain why they did things the way that they did and that is precisely what I asked of her. Her initial answer was that there was only one minute to present the data but after pressing her on the issue, she stated, “I don’t know why.”
At the crux of this issue is how the information was presented. After watching the piece I came away with the impression that you could do an internet search, pick up the phone and just buy one of these “killer weapons.” However, after doing some checking, I have found that this is hardly the case.
Ms Pearl did tell me that the information in the piece was correct and she is right. They did seek out the assistance of an expert. The Sportsman Channel’s “Ammunition Expert”, Larry Vickers is well known in the small arms industry and deals with far more than ammunition. In fact, he’s an internationally recognized expert and the host of two TV shows dealing with small arms. Unfortunately, after showing 12 seconds of expert testimony on how difficult it is to purchase a grenade launcher, the segment’s host, David Cuomo essentially refuted Vickers’ assertions by telling us that a vendor selling destructive devices said that “the only restrictions were that a buyer had to be a resident of a state that allows them to have a grenade launcher, and most states do, and they need a gun permit.”
So, in order to find out if the information presented to me was true, I did exactly the same thing the correspondent did in the segment. I googled “Grenade Launcher” and came up with well over one million hits. Then I googled “Grenade Launcher for sale” and only came up with 181,000 choices. Of those only a few were actually for the sale of real honest-to-goodness grenade launchers. The rest offered airsoft versions or the dreaded 37mm flare launchers that inspired the piece.
After some checking, I was able to ascertain that Mr Cuomo was seeking information on the DD1-152 M203 Grenade launcher offered for sale by Autoweapons.com. What makes this story even more convoluted is that the model that he chose was built specifically to fit on a rare foreign weapon; the AK4 Swedish variant of the HK G3. This makes it even more useless to the casual buyer as one would then need to purchase the proper base weapon to mount the M203 to, in this case an AK4. Naturally, this means more red tape and rules.
And purchasing an actual M-203 40mm grenade launcher is hardly the end of it. To make it a “killer weapon” one would require ammunition. Each round requires exactly the same process to purchase as the launcher itself. That’s right, $200 tax stamp for each individual round, more fingerprints, more background checks, more waiting. This may be why you don’t see neighbors blowing each other up with 40mm grenades. The ATF does a great job of regulating the transfer of these devices. The reality is that they are far from easy to purchase, and you certainly can’t order one over the phone or internet.
If the problem with the segment was that there was only one minute to present the data, then perhaps the answer was to provide more time so that terms like “gun permit” could be adequately explained as an ATF Form 4, payment of a $200 transfer stamp, background check to include fingerprints, and a wait of several months while a national agency check is conducted and the application is processed. And, on top of all of this, you have to be in a state that allows the individual to possess a destructive device like a grenade launcher. Or, maybe if the one minute is not negotiable an alternative would be to perhaps let the expert speak rather than some talking head ask about color options like he is picking out a new scooter. Either one of these options would have resulted in more facts being presented.
In the end, the ABC piece is much ado about nothing. They were informed by experts that there was no story there yet they proceeded anyway. However, I will admit that they did do their research and they did tell us that in order to purchase a grenade launcher “the only restrictions were that a buyer had to be a resident of a state that allows them to have a grenade launcher, and most states do, and they need a gun permit.” They just failed to explain what that meant leading viewers to the false conclusion that grenade launchers are as simple to purchase as a pair of shoes. They also failed to mention that while most states allow private ownership of destructive devices, neither New York City, where ABC News is located, nor the state of New Jersey where the AWOL Sailor was apprehended do. Too bad they didn’t have more time to more accurately portray the issue.
So what is the verdict? Can individuals run out and purchase grenade launchers? No.
-t
MoneyWhereMyMouthIs2
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Very nice post overall and quite repworthy...
Except that. I don't see neighbors attacking each other with weapons in their possession. I don't see why a new weapon would make them change their minds. That is the sort of argument anti-gun people try to make.
Except that. I don't see neighbors attacking each other with weapons in their possession. I don't see why a new weapon would make them change their minds. That is the sort of argument anti-gun people try to make.
tangent4ronpaul
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A much better writeup and more practical. Worth clicking through, as this is only a bit from the FAQ on all things "grenade launcher"
How to purchase an m203
http://www.ar15.com/mobile/topic.html?b=6&f=21&t=238534
It's not difficult; you use the same process as any SBR, MG, or Silencer. You can purchase one on a Form 4 that can be ordered Here
To register as an individual you have to get two copies of the Form 4, with two fingerprint cards, and two 2x2" photos. To register as a trust or corporation you don’t need the photo, fingerprint cards, or LEO signature. More information on NFA Forms can be found at the General Class 3 board.
Then find a dealer with one in stock. You buy it, they send it on a form 3 to a Class 3 dealer in your state, you then send the F4 to the ATF in Georgia. The paperwork then gets forwarded to ATF in W VA. If it is approved you'll know in about 45 days or so. They send one copy of the Form 4 back to you and you pick up your launcher from the dealer.
Originally Posted By STG77:
Being a DD dealer is not the same as being a Class 3 dealer.
A DD dealer is a type 9 FFL, a DD manufacturer is a type 10 FFL. Just being a 03 or 02 SOT does not allow you to receive DDs on a Form 3.
Not all dealers have this.
With this information aside (which is the way its supposed to be as far as I’ve read), a Class 3 dealer/SOT can on occasion get an approved Form 3, this topic has been discussed and it seems to be something they do once or twice a year for a dealer not a regular basis thing. Which means you may not need a DD specific dealer. However the Form 1 is still an option if you are under 21, but over 18 years of age.
So if you live in a state with no known DD dealer that can deal DD then you get to do a Form 1.
You get yourself a Form 1, and do the same thing, except a F1 is to build a firearm not to transfer one. You find a dealer with an m203 receiver in stock, buy it and they ship it to any FFL and transfer it as a title 1 rifle. You put the serial number on the F1 and send it to the ATF except F1's go straight to W VA not GA. Once it is approved you can purchase a 40mm barrel to complete your launcher. The only downside of this is you must engrave your name city and state on the launcher somewhere in plain view to the NFA font specifications.
There was another thread recently on what weapons people should be allowed to buy where flamethrowers came up. In this FAQ they have a section on what is and is not a DD, and it has this to say on the topic:
Flame Thrower - not a DD, nor even a firearm. Unregulated
as to possession, under federal law. Great way to clear snow off
the driveway.
and as to why you can buy cannons:
Muzzle loading cannon - NOT (a DD), as it is an antique design, unless
it has some special features allowing breech loading.
The cops would probably crap themselves if someone turned in a cannon... lol!
-t
How to purchase an m203
http://www.ar15.com/mobile/topic.html?b=6&f=21&t=238534
It's not difficult; you use the same process as any SBR, MG, or Silencer. You can purchase one on a Form 4 that can be ordered Here
To register as an individual you have to get two copies of the Form 4, with two fingerprint cards, and two 2x2" photos. To register as a trust or corporation you don’t need the photo, fingerprint cards, or LEO signature. More information on NFA Forms can be found at the General Class 3 board.
Then find a dealer with one in stock. You buy it, they send it on a form 3 to a Class 3 dealer in your state, you then send the F4 to the ATF in Georgia. The paperwork then gets forwarded to ATF in W VA. If it is approved you'll know in about 45 days or so. They send one copy of the Form 4 back to you and you pick up your launcher from the dealer.
Originally Posted By STG77:
Being a DD dealer is not the same as being a Class 3 dealer.
A DD dealer is a type 9 FFL, a DD manufacturer is a type 10 FFL. Just being a 03 or 02 SOT does not allow you to receive DDs on a Form 3.
Not all dealers have this.
With this information aside (which is the way its supposed to be as far as I’ve read), a Class 3 dealer/SOT can on occasion get an approved Form 3, this topic has been discussed and it seems to be something they do once or twice a year for a dealer not a regular basis thing. Which means you may not need a DD specific dealer. However the Form 1 is still an option if you are under 21, but over 18 years of age.
So if you live in a state with no known DD dealer that can deal DD then you get to do a Form 1.
You get yourself a Form 1, and do the same thing, except a F1 is to build a firearm not to transfer one. You find a dealer with an m203 receiver in stock, buy it and they ship it to any FFL and transfer it as a title 1 rifle. You put the serial number on the F1 and send it to the ATF except F1's go straight to W VA not GA. Once it is approved you can purchase a 40mm barrel to complete your launcher. The only downside of this is you must engrave your name city and state on the launcher somewhere in plain view to the NFA font specifications.
There was another thread recently on what weapons people should be allowed to buy where flamethrowers came up. In this FAQ they have a section on what is and is not a DD, and it has this to say on the topic:
Flame Thrower - not a DD, nor even a firearm. Unregulated
as to possession, under federal law. Great way to clear snow off
the driveway.
and as to why you can buy cannons:
Muzzle loading cannon - NOT (a DD), as it is an antique design, unless
it has some special features allowing breech loading.
The cops would probably crap themselves if someone turned in a cannon... lol!
-t
Last edited:
aGameOfThrones
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I would've given them an AMAZON gift card for a few of those guns.
tangent4ronpaul
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When I was growing up we had this church behind us with parking lot light poles. So one day a car or whatever hit one and knocked it over and someone from the church dragged it to the side of the property. I soooo snagged it! That thing was great! it was at least 30' long and 3-4" diameter and maybe 1/8th" thick walls made of aluminum. Firing pop bottle rockets out of it, resulted in incredible accuracy! I could actually hit trash cans or cars that I aimed at...
FUN TIMES!Make um!
Amateur Rocket Motor Construction:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/39156180/Amateur-Rocket-Motor-Construction
but be sure to check local laws first. While candy rockets are just a propellant, black powder is a low explosive. I was looking into making some black powder recently and found out my state really sucks!
First off, you can not possess more than 5 pounds of black powder or smokeless powder in this state. It's supposed to be stored in a class 4 magazine in a unoccupied building at least 50 feet from any inhabited dwellings. The 5 pound limitation really sucks if you are going through a lot of it, like making larger rockets, reloading .50 or own a cannon. There is a loophole, in that ammunition isn't considered storing powder, so some people fill up and load .50 cal brass with much more powder than you would put in that kind of a round, ad a bullet and bingo! - no storage issues! Just mark well, so you don't accidentally shoot one.
Now if you make something pyrotechnic, you need a BATFE license to manufacture explosives in order to remove it from your property and set it off somewhere else. This is really easy to get. You fill out the paperwork, go through a federal background check, someone comes out and inspects your magazine and you have an interview.
Now, enter the state... if you want to manufacture explosives, they want you to get a state license to manufacture explosives. The thing is, they won't grant you one unless you are a business. It also costs $750 a year for the license.
Then I noticed that the penalty for manufacturing explosives in this state without a license is up to a quarter million dollar fine and/or up to 5 years in jail... Well douse me in ice water! That sure ruined my day!
Then I found out that firing (sky) rockets in this state is illegal ($250 fine and 6 months). Unless you have a license... which you can't get unless you are a business. (model) rockets seem to be legal, however.
I'm still trying to sort this out, as by "explosives", they may mean high explosives only, though I doubt it, and the whole some rockets are legal and some are not part needs some clarification.
Anyway, if your state is like mine, you can just buy 1 pound cans of BP and get around the whole "manufacturing" issue. Alternately, just make candy rockets or use some other propellant.
-t
VIDEODROME
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