RNC demands networks to yank McCain '100 year Iraq war' AD

[moostraks]

It's obvious I'm on this forum to promote neo-conservatism and John McCain. I mean come on, look at my post history. You'll see it all right there. I'm a GOP hack. It's kind of like how Ron Paul actually agrees with Rush Limbaugh on everything, and is stumping for him, because Paul defended him once on the drug addiction situation.
/sarcasm off

I've been through this before on this forum. It's nothing new. Some people need to get over themselves I guess.

This is obviously a problem with some in this movement, and I hope it's not with the majority. It's why I ever bother to keep posting on this thread. It reminds me of the early Cold War consensus in this country. Or better yet, the current adminstration. "If you don't agree with everything I think, you are obviously my enemy." I'm curious to see how this attitude plays out. It destroyed plenty of movements before, and it will destory the neocon movement, but hopefully it won't destroy this one. Maybe groupthink is human nature, regardless of one's personal philosophy and politics.

Wow....so since I am not willing to mindlessly believe a politician I am the root of the destruction of a movement.. You have offered what all the gop hacks have offered the gop which is just give them the benefit of the doubt until said particular jacka** happens to screw us over. To each his own....I think that those here are relatively aware there is a good many who push that particular agenda and are well equiped to ignore this illogical reasoning...

Get over your own paranoia or self-absorbed ego, whatever the case may be. I don't know you personnally. I said in the beginning *I* believe that you need to look further than what a politician says to understand they have the capacity to reason further than the words they feed the general public to avoid offending people. *I* believe that McCain is jerking us and is not that naive and that someone who feels otherwise should take his past history into account. You want to believe them at face value until they individually screw you over, then good luck with that.

I am not here to lead anyone. Your pessimism of self-destruction of the movement is just another reason to be wary of you, imho. Oh me, I am not bending over backwards to trust a politician so freedom will die. As stated I don't know you. Wariness of others motives and determination to persue freedoms for others you disagree with are the strengths of Ron Paul's ideas. He never expects anyone to go into political battle without being aware of the motives of others( as well as the fact that much knowledge is released on a need to know basis). I do hope that whatever a situation may be one uses more than just one facet of their senses to make a judgement.(IE both eyes and ears with brain engaged...)However this seems to be beyond the scope of many Americans nowadays.....

If they want to run ads of this manner on the democrats side, then let them. If McCain can out think them and show they are truly being disingenuous then he will come out ahead. With the dumbing down of the general public he should hope he can get it together in a catchy little jingle. Strong arming people into removing an ad when the gop is guilty of the same offenses is just ridiculous....We need to stop being nannys and force them to be accountable for past actions rather than rewarding the politician who gets our attention in a McDonald's minute. Once again, though, this may be beyond the scope of the general american public thanks to our form of government education....

 

[acptulsa]

So familydog thinks McCain is naive and moonstraks thinks McCain is lying. Both of you know what he says is wrong, and neither of you is the least bit inclined to support him over it. Little enough to choose between these positions imo...

For what it's worth, I like both of you.

 

[jmdrake]

It may not be false in a literal sense, but it is very misleading. McCain said it is possible we would still have some troops in Iraq in 100 years from now. He did not mean that we would be fighting a war there for 100 years. We have had troops in Germany for over fifty years now and they have not had to fight in that time. Korea for forty years. We don't usually bring home all the troops when we go into somewhere. Except for maybe places like Somolia.

I've heard McInsane's rationale and it's bull. There was no ongoing insurgency in Japan and Germany that lasted longer than WW II. Japan and Germany had no ongoing sectarian warfare after the end of the war. The bottom line is that Shiite and Sunni extremists aren't going to just "lay down their weapons" in 50 years or 100 years. A more apt example is Israel's occupation of Lebanon. Notice that Israel isn't still there.

Regards,

John M. Drake

 

[jmdrake]

Erm. I'm just telling you what he meant.

Naw. You're telling us what he wants us to believe he meant. I believe that McCain thinks Iraq will be peaceful in the foreseeable future about as much as I believe that Hillary actually thought she was taking sniper fire or that Obama had never heard Rev Wright say anything controversial. If McCain is naive enough to think that the sectarian violence in Iraq will end by our extended presence than his military training didn't do him any good.

Regards,

John M. Drake

 

[jmdrake]

I was recently at a local GOP meeting where the chair said "We have to counteract the lie that John McCain said we should stay in Iraq for 100 years". See how stupid this all is? Deep down everyone knows that even with McCain's "it will be like Japan and Germany" spin that this was an INCREDIBLY stupid thing for McCain to say. The DNC is playing this honestly sad to say. Actually Ron Paul should have done his own "100 years in Iraq" ad several primaries ago. Iraq simply is NOT Japan or Germany. Besides the Iraqi parliament said they want us out over a year ago. I thought we were going to leave when we were asked?

Regards,

John M. Drake

 

[JTM]

lol, republicans are great mud slingers. now we're getting a taste for our own medicine.

if you're going to be able to dish it, be able to take it. nobody said we had to pick ANOTHER bumbling fool for our nominee, but alas, we seem to have done that.

 

[acptulsa]

nobody said we had to pick ANOTHER bumbling fool for our nominee, but alas, we seem to have done that.

He managed to build up a record as a moderate then bumble into the middle of a race against four conservatives and a cross-dresser who sounded like a broken record. What can one do?

 

[moostraks]

He managed to build up a record as a moderate then bumble into the middle of a race against four conservatives and a cross-dresser who sounded like a broken record. What can one do?

HAhA!! I still can't fathom the people who have been visciously bashing him for years expect us to take it seriously as they say well now you don't want a democrat...Umm...They were the same ones who said not to trust him because he was too liberal, right?? THen they start to beat the war drum and tell us how well we are doing in the war against terror...Ughh!!!! Just so they can trot out that he has a military background you don't want someone without experience in office now do you??

All I can hear is fear, fear, fear, be very afraid. The people I fear most are those who are trying to feed us these lines of trash...They must think we all suffer from short term memory loss!!!

 

[moostraks]

So familydog thinks McCain is naive and moonstraks thinks McCain is lying. Both of you know what he says is wrong, and neither of you is the least bit inclined to support him over it. Little enough to choose between these positions imo...

For what it's worth, I like both of you.

LOL...at least we are sure where the two of us stand!!
BTW~like you to acptulsa...

 

[familydog]

Wow....so since I am not willing to mindlessly believe a politician I am the root of the destruction of a movement.. You have offered what all the gop hacks have offered the gop which is just give them the benefit of the doubt until said particular jacka** happens to screw us over. To each his own....I think that those here are relatively aware there is a good many who push that particular agenda and are well equiped to ignore this illogical reasoning...

Get over your own paranoia or self-absorbed ego, whatever the case may be. I don't know you personnally. I said in the beginning *I* believe that you need to look further than what a politician says to understand they have the capacity to reason further than the words they feed the general public to avoid offending people. *I* believe that McCain is jerking us and is not that naive and that someone who feels otherwise should take his past history into account. You want to believe them at face value until they individually screw you over, then good luck with that.

I am not here to lead anyone. Your pessimism of self-destruction of the movement is just another reason to be wary of you, imho. Oh me, I am not bending over backwards to trust a politician so freedom will die. As stated I don't know you. Wariness of others motives and determination to persue freedoms for others you disagree with are the strengths of Ron Paul's ideas. He never expects anyone to go into political battle without being aware of the motives of others( as well as the fact that much knowledge is released on a need to know basis). I do hope that whatever a situation may be one uses more than just one facet of their senses to make a judgement.(IE both eyes and ears with brain engaged...)However this seems to be beyond the scope of many Americans nowadays.....

If they want to run ads of this manner on the democrats side, then let them. If McCain can out think them and show they are truly being disingenuous then he will come out ahead. With the dumbing down of the general public he should hope he can get it together in a catchy little jingle. Strong arming people into removing an ad when the gop is guilty of the same offenses is just ridiculous....We need to stop being nannys and force them to be accountable for past actions rather than rewarding the politician who gets our attention in a McDonald's minute. Once again, though, this may be beyond the scope of the general american public thanks to our form of government education....

Lol. Never did I suggest the ad be removed. So, I'm not sure why you are lecturing on that. I quite clearly stated that he needs to watch what he says and be accountable for it.

I certainly don't have pessimism over this movement. The fact that I'm here, keeping up on the news and causes to donate to suggests that I have great hope for this movement. Especially when we have seen a large share of people lose interest just because the odds as very much against Ron Paul. At the same time, I'm not blinded to think that it will all work out in the end, all we have to do is wait. Being vigilant is a republican virtue that our founders wished to bestow upon us, I'm just being a good citizen of the republic. Watching out for the best interest of me, my fellow citizen, and the state. Being a part of this movement is being vigilant, and knowing that it may not work out in the end, assesing what is going on, and trying to patch up any faults in the foundation of this movement is also being vigilant. What you call paranoia, I call vigilance.
Again, history has shown that movements with internal distrusts and and warring internal factions cause instability, and instability causes the destruction of the movement. I'm simply pointing out a trend by some on this forum that follows this path. I suggest reading up on the French Revolution and the Terror if you aren't familiar with it.

I don't "trust" John McCain. Like I have argued over and over in this thread, there is no evidence to suggest that he wants us to be in eternal war as was suggested by some. Therefore, I have to go by what McCain says. I'm not agreeing with what his opinions, but to assume something of a person, without any evidence, just because you may not like his policies, is wrong. I don't do it to anybody here on the forum, people I agree with on most things, I'm certainly not going to do it to McCain. If Ron Paul has taught me anything, its that consistency is very important. You say I need to look further at what a politician says. Okay, I'm all for that. What has he said that would suggest I'm wrong? He made his 100 year in Iraq statement, and it was vague. He later went on Meet the Press to clarify what he meant. He said he meant he wants us to have a presence there indefinately like we have in Germany, Korea, Japan, etc. He believes that Iraq can be pacified and stable sometime in the next decade or two. Do I think he is naive and wrong? Of course. So I'm not sure why it is such a big deal that I defend him for being ignorant.

So if you think I'm a GOP hack, oh well. Its not skin off my nose. lol

Thanks acptulsa, I like you too

 

[moostraks]

Lol. Never did I suggest the ad be removed. So, I'm not sure why you are lecturing on that. I quite clearly stated that he needs to watch what he says and be accountable for it.

Hmmm...guess I believed you suggested it when you stated it was misleading and then continued to claim McCain's innocence until found guilty, my mistake...

I certainly don't have pessimism over this movement. The fact that I'm here, keeping up on the news and causes to donate to suggests that I have great hope for this movement. Especially when we have seen a large share of people lose interest just because the odds as very much against Ron Paul

So everyone who is on here is one with Ron Paul's ideals, alrighty then...call me cynical.

At the same time, I'm not blinded to think that it will all work out in the end, all we have to do is wait. Being vigilant is a republican virtue that our founders wished to bestow upon us, I'm just being a good citizen of the republic. Watching out for the best interest of me, my fellow citizen, and the state. Being a part of this movement is being vigilant, and knowing that it may not work out in the end, assesing what is going on, and trying to patch up any faults in the foundation of this movement is also being vigilant. What you call paranoia, I call vigilance.

Your form of vigilence, telling others to not question authority, and badgering those who find it healthy to use some skepticism is the same brand of nonsense that gave us this administration....I said you have the right to follow your path, I disagree with you and think it is potentially troublesome because past history tells us that a politician means more than what crosses their lips, but you are free to follow your path and good luck with it....

Again, history has shown that movements with internal distrusts and and warring internal factions cause instability, and instability causes the destruction of the movement. I'm simply pointing out a trend by some on this forum that follows this path. I suggest reading up on the French Revolution and the Terror if you aren't familiar with it.

So you can quote history for fractions in movements, but think we should trust career politicians with questionable histories?? I said skepticism is healthy (the exact word being to be wary) and I stand by my beliefs. Paranoia is not healthy, but that is a whole other story. Maligning folks here because we don't kowtow to your philosophical bends is a bit pompous. I said believe what you want. From start to finish I have responded in this fashion.

I don't "trust" John McCain. Like I have argued over and over in this thread, there is no evidence to suggest that he wants us to be in eternal war as was suggested by some. Therefore, I have to go by what McCain says. I'm not agreeing with what his opinions, but to assume something of a person, without any evidence, just because you may not like his policies, is wrong. I don't do it to anybody here on the forum, people I agree with on most things, I'm certainly not going to do it to McCain.

If Ron Paul has taught me anything, its that consistency is very important. You say I need to look further at what a politician says. Okay, I'm all for that. What has he said that would suggest I'm wrong? He made his 100 year in Iraq statement, and it was vague. He later went on Meet the Press to clarify what he meant. He said he meant he wants us to have a presence there indefinately like we have in Germany, Korea, Japan, etc. He believes that Iraq can be pacified and stable sometime in the next decade or two. Do I think he is naive and wrong? Of course. So I'm not sure why it is such a big deal that I defend him for being ignorant.

Okay, my perceptions are vastly different than yours. I lived overseas and personnally experienced the wrath of an occupied country who wanted us to go home. I said my opinion was based on the fact that anyone who is military(especially) and lives overseas for any sizeable duration is exposed at some point to this animosity. It is very prevalent. As a former prisoner of war I would think he would be even more keenly aware of an occupied country's contempt for american servicemen.

Excluding that probable set of circumstances which should have resulted in some personnal knowledge he is seemingly unaware of(your stance), then we could go with the possibilty of some knowledge of beliefs of those involved.(Which is the least we should expect from someone who is actively seeking control of our military during war). Barring that, the possibilty of some empathy might also elude to outcome other than that which he is implying.

So if you think I'm a GOP hack, oh well. Its not skin off my nose. lol

Thanks acptulsa, I like you too

Defend him to the hilt, you are free to, but some of us here are already fed up with all the chances this guy is getting and we have had more than our fair share of hearing how McCain meant one thing or another. If this was a McCain web forum or even a general GOP forum you could expect a bit more leeway. However this is a RON PAUL forum and they are actively in pursuit of the same job. Questioning the veracity of the competition should be the norm not the exception here. If you don't like it, tough....I am just as entitled to make a case for why he might be speaking out both sides of his mouth. This has run its course and I tire of dialogue meant to demoralize or disempower those of us opposed to business as usual....

 

[buffalokid777]

What McCain meant was similar to having troops in Japan, Korea, Germany, etc. Our troops aren't in combat there, but we have a presence. Of course he doesn't want a 100 year war, and it is a little disingenuous for Democrats to attack McCain for this when it essentially their policy as well. The ad is misleading, but in politics, you better watch what you say. McCain hasn't learned that lesson.

I don't think it is ingenious to use that ad......

The ad DOESN'T say 100 year war....

It says 100 years of staying there and shows how it looks after the first five......

Unfortunately the democratic powers will do the same.....NO matter WHO IS ELECTED......

I think the assertion that John McCain is 4 more years of Bush is correct......

But the Democrats are 4 more years of Bush JR......

If we want a REAL change.....Ron Paul is the choice....If they don't want Ron Paul we get what we get........4 more years of Bush if McCain is elected........4 More years (but less intense) of Bush if Obama or Hitlery is elected......I'm sick of choosing the lesser of 2 evils I'm making the right choice....even if I have to write Ron Paul in......

If you want change......beg Ron Paul to hold this together and run again in 2012 if he is able......Maybe then we can fix this country......

If RP is unable or unwilling to run in 2012......Maybe Peter Schiff might be be convinced to take a shot if RP can hold the movement together......to give up CEO of Euro Pacific for abit to help get this country back on track......Schiff is well spoken, camera friendly, and MOST of all seems to understand what needs to be done........

 

[jmdrake]

Lol. Never did I suggest the ad be removed. So, I'm not sure why you are lecturing on that. I quite clearly stated that he needs to watch what he says and be accountable for it.
......
I don't "trust" John McCain. Like I have argued over and over in this thread, there is no evidence to suggest that he wants us to be in eternal war as was suggested by some. Therefore, I have to go by what McCain says. I'm not agreeing with what his opinions, but to assume something of a person, without any evidence, just because you may not like his policies, is wrong. I don't do it to anybody here on the forum, people I agree with on most things, I'm certainly not going to do it to McCain. If Ron Paul has taught me anything, its that consistency is very important. You say I need to look further at what a politician says. Okay, I'm all for that. What has he said that would suggest I'm wrong? He made his 100 year in Iraq statement, and it was vague. He later went on Meet the Press to clarify what he meant. He said he meant he wants us to have a presence there indefinately like we have in Germany, Korea, Japan, etc. He believes that Iraq can be pacified and stable sometime in the next decade or two. Do I think he is naive and wrong? Of course. So I'm not sure why it is such a big deal that I defend him for being ignorant.

So if you think I'm a GOP hack, oh well. Its not skin off my nose. lol

Thanks acptulsa, I like you too

A) The ad never says that McCain wants eternal war.

B) Anyone that thinks that Iraq will be like Japan and Germany in 100 years is an idiot and is not fit to lead this country.

C) You're defense of McCain is illogical based on points A and B.

Regards,

John M. Drake