Mr.NoSmile
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We don't nor have we ever disagreed on that.
Rand Paul, Ted Cruz join Kirsten Gillibrand push on military sexual assault
- Thread starter jct74
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We don't nor have we ever disagreed on that.
JCDenton0451
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You're a nerd, sitting behind a computer monitor. What do you know about that?
Nether Paul, nor Cruz has ever served, they have only superficial knowledge of the military, yet somehow their Tea Party credentials are supposed to give progressive Senator Gilibrand cover?? I hope this thing goes nowhere.
Sorry buddy 20 year veteran here. You are a sneaky anti Rand troll.
There must be intent for crime, so I can see part of your argument; but this is not a crime that can be committed without intent. I can see how stress could cause a person who already has problems feeling empathy for others to cross the line. I can see how stress could cause a young person with a poorly formed character to make choices that they wouldn't have made unless under great stress. People who are 18 now, and going into the military, grew up in a crazy society, and probably didn't have the advantage of being raised well. Overall, there is no excuse for destroying someone else's life, so no I don't see why there should be a different set of standards. But yes, I do see how these soldiers are at a disadvantage in this situation. I hope that those who have slipped up, but still have the capability of feeling empathy for others, realize that people can change and that they can become a new person through grace, and not beat themselves up over their past.
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The fact of the matter is these people volunteered to go overseas and kill, they made that choice when they signed up. To give people legal cover from violence against "their own" while desensitizing them from killing people who are not "their own" is a recipe for more violent crime in the military. Your solution is to make serving with other soldiers an even greater danger by excusing gross misconduct when it occurs, all under the guise that the military is inherently violent and therefore violence outside of the battlefield is somehow more acceptable from them. Nothing could be further from the truth.
TonySutton
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After a bit of wandering around the internet it appears 22% of women age 18-24 have experienced sexual assault or attempted sexual assault. I am wondering if the numbers we are seeing in the military are close to what we are seeing elsewhere in America. There will be a deviation since the ratio of men to women in the military is different than across the US.
My concern is this really a military only issue or something we see every day across the country.
My concern is this really a military only issue or something we see every day across the country.
There have been pretty high general population statistics for decades and I doubt them....mainly because the statistics never seemed to match up with women I know. But maybe its the circles I run in.
supermario21
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I look at the people who are opposed to this (Carl Levin, Claire McCaskill, etc) and that makes me think Rand and Cruz are on the right side of the issue.
jtstellar
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i don't even know why my "take it out on opposite sex" comment is starting a debate.. I meant sexually. And rationally it should be easily understandable.
actually you don't even need a brain to rationalize, just look at history. Since when during war times has it been news for soldiers/armies/marines whatever you want to call, to look for women? The end result is usually terrorized households, communities turned into organized, or perhaps just a ghetto, of decimated brothel houses, if not just outright raped women in the streets or in their own home. Men will get what they want, one way or the other, it's just a matter of how. Especially during high stress life and death situations, the primitive instinct comes out, much stronger, easily overwhelming rational thoughts. Think japan during ww2 and their 'comfort women' prostitution issue still the topic of quarrels between nationalist of neighboring countries japan once occupied during ww2. It's still a huge topic of controversy and a wedge issue for people who wish to stir up animosity. And japan is otherwise a very civilized society historically, at least when you compare to their citizen-slaughtering neighbors by the millions if not tens or hundreds, spanning thousands of years
there may be less of a violent/victimization aspect when it's fellow soldier on their peers, but it's already been shown the demand is there. once there is need to relieve stress through sexual behavior, it's just the manner of how it comes out.
no one is saying it will be male soldiers beating fellow female combat units with tire irons. The problem is whether you want that military camp to turn into a living breathing breeding ground, and all the potential complications arriving from that. But i guess if they don't have women there, male troops will just go about the area looking to turn local women. Either way (undeclared) war time presence of armies will induce problems one way or another. But i still don't know wtf you want women there with men into war. Get married and move into a conquered local neighborhood? What is this, new form of colonialism? Have some of that cultural assimilation while you are at it with the locals. jesus.. You might as well just marry a local, helps you assimilate faster, ww2 style. We're really going back in time
actually you don't even need a brain to rationalize, just look at history. Since when during war times has it been news for soldiers/armies/marines whatever you want to call, to look for women? The end result is usually terrorized households, communities turned into organized, or perhaps just a ghetto, of decimated brothel houses, if not just outright raped women in the streets or in their own home. Men will get what they want, one way or the other, it's just a matter of how. Especially during high stress life and death situations, the primitive instinct comes out, much stronger, easily overwhelming rational thoughts. Think japan during ww2 and their 'comfort women' prostitution issue still the topic of quarrels between nationalist of neighboring countries japan once occupied during ww2. It's still a huge topic of controversy and a wedge issue for people who wish to stir up animosity. And japan is otherwise a very civilized society historically, at least when you compare to their citizen-slaughtering neighbors by the millions if not tens or hundreds, spanning thousands of years
there may be less of a violent/victimization aspect when it's fellow soldier on their peers, but it's already been shown the demand is there. once there is need to relieve stress through sexual behavior, it's just the manner of how it comes out.
no one is saying it will be male soldiers beating fellow female combat units with tire irons. The problem is whether you want that military camp to turn into a living breathing breeding ground, and all the potential complications arriving from that. But i guess if they don't have women there, male troops will just go about the area looking to turn local women. Either way (undeclared) war time presence of armies will induce problems one way or another. But i still don't know wtf you want women there with men into war. Get married and move into a conquered local neighborhood? What is this, new form of colonialism? Have some of that cultural assimilation while you are at it with the locals. jesus.. You might as well just marry a local, helps you assimilate faster, ww2 style. We're really going back in time
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I agree, minus the profanity.
TonySutton
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Well there are quite a few published studies that all seem to fall between 20-25%. The issue with sexual assaults in the military is based on a survey the military conducted. Many of the published studies are based on surveys. Regardless of your doubts I think we are comparing apples to apples here and I really do not see enough variation between the two to think the military has any more of a problem than exists on college campuses or the bar scene.
Bingo.
Sorry about the profanity but I kind of lost it beings that I have served with quite a number of women in combat and the mental vision of them being raped by their fellow soldiers as a stress reliever made me see red.
I agree. Some of these comments come across as being insensitive. I'm glad that Rand is doing this. It's the right thing to do and will also help him push back against the whole "war on women" charge.
libertarian101
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Very smart move by Rand and Cruz. The leftist and Hilary must be mad right now as they can't easily portray Rand as women hater for his stance on Violence Against Women Act and abortion.
ClydeCoulter
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I sure don't see this as a bad thing for Rand.
Carlybee
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I agree. Are these men raping other men? No..they are taking it out on people who they know may not be able to defend themselves. I personally think any soldier who rapes someone and that includes officers, should be willing to have his head blown off by the victim and the women should be able to sleep with their service revolvers if this is going to become standard practice. To use the "men will be men and women shouldn't be in the military to begin with" is a cop out.
Coolidge/Dawes '24
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Yes, and by actively denying such a thing, along with many other posters here, you're doing male rape victims in the military a great disservice. But no, it's not neatly boxed into the whole "fragile, delicate wallflowers" narrative that many rape hysteria zealots (who, by watering down the definition of what constitutes sexual assault and treat any and all allegations as true regardless of the evidence, are making it more difficult for rape victims of both sexes to get the swift justice that they deserve) champion. I hate to break it to the relentless, holier-than-thou PC brigaders in our government (and here in this very community), but sexual assault knows no race, nationality, creed, or gender.
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Get a grip. No one here has watered down the definition of rape or denied that male rape takes place.
Coolidge/Dawes '24
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It's pretty much insinuated. By hinting that we must rush head-long into this without taking into consideration the extensively well-documented epidemic of false accusations, spurious charges, dismissals based on scant evidence, and the under-reporting of male-on-male rape, just so we can dismantle burning, but nevertheless unfounded, suspicions that conservative Republicans are waging a "War on Women," many posters here are guilty of being quite presumptuous about those things.
Again, we don't want innocent young men caught in the crossfire here just to score cheap political points. Let's approach this sensibly.
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