Sens. Mike Lee, Rand Paul are holding up 9/11 victims fund

[kcchiefs6465]

But it's the correct answer, isn't it?

NO. it's not. IMO

Got to ask Are you a robot or human?

I wonder what sort of pensions and life insurance those who died had? A couple bucks a pay check and if I am tragically killed on the job, my family is set.

I get it. It is an emotional issue.

So are hurricanes, earthquakes, floods, tornadoes, forest fires, plane crashes and the like. It is heartbreaking how cruel the world can be.

But what level of tragedy is necessary to financially compensate those who were maimed or killed? And in perpetuity no less with no real budget estimations.

Obviously you do not have to be a robot to draw the line somewhere.

In my opinion, it ought not be drawn where the government is granted the authority to steal or borrow from future generations to pay for things today. After all, it is naive to think there won't be future tragedies. Future tragedies which will not receive the response needed due to that generation being burdened with prior generational debt.

Also consider that there will be a costly bureaucracy built behind these funds. It may be 50/50 with half going to those in need and the other half being squandered by administrative ineffectiveness. It may be more. It isn't just that it is immoral for the government to steal (even in the name of charity) it is that they are also the most inefficient and corrupt group of people to be put in charge of the money. They will be taken by fraudsters and much will be spent on a whole lot of nothing.

Americans are a generous people. Four hundred and ten billion dollars generous and that is after being taken from to the tune of 20-50 percent. Let charity work. The government isn't the answer.... whether the question is disaster relief, AIDS research, or 9/11 victim funds.

 

[Superfluous Man]

I wonder what sort of pensions and life insurance those who died had? A couple bucks a pay check and if I am tragically killed on the job, my family is set.

I get it. It is an emotional issue.

So are hurricanes, earthquakes, floods, tornadoes, forest fires, plane crashes and the like. It is heartbreaking how cruel the world can be.

But what level of tragedy is necessary to financially compensate those who were maimed or killed? And in perpetuity no less with no real budget estimations.

Obviously you do not have to be a robot to draw the line somewhere.

In my opinion, it ought not be drawn where the government is granted the authority to steal or borrow from future generations to pay for things today. After all, it is naive to think there won't be future tragedies. Future tragedies which will not receive the response needed due to that generation being burdened with prior generational debt.

Also consider that there will be a costly bureaucracy built behind these funds. It may be 50/50 with half going to those in need and the other half being squandered by administrative ineffectiveness. It may be more. It isn't just that it is immoral for the government to steal (even in the name of charity) it is that they are also the most inefficient and corrupt group of people to be put in charge of the money. They will be taken by fraudsters and much will be spent on a whole lot of nothing.

Americans are a generous people. Four hundred and ten billion dollars generous and that is after being taken from to the tune of 20-50 percent. Let charity work. The government isn't the answer.... whether the question is disaster relief, AIDS research, or 9/11 victim funds.

"You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to kcchiefs6465 again."

 

[vita3]

But what level of tragedy is necessary to financially compensate those who were maimed or killed? And in perpetuity no less with no real budget estimations.

Who knows? But again our GOV used this event for 2 seemingly perpetual wars & again again again.. Lied to its citizens by changing EPA air quality numbers..

 

[Occam's Banana]

Also consider that there will be a costly bureaucracy built behind these funds. It may be 50/50 with half going to those in need and the other half being squandered by administrative ineffectiveness. It may be more. It isn't just that it is immoral for the government to steal (even in the name of charity) it is that they are also the most inefficient and corrupt group of people to be put in charge of the money. They will be taken by fraudsters and much will be spent on a whole lot of nothing.

It's probably worse than 50/50. I recall hearing years ago about an audit of some federal government "charity" program or other (I don't remember which) - the report found that only 7 percent of the program's receipts had actually been spent on its mandated mission. The other 93 percent went to salaries, staff increases, promotions and assorted other bureaucratic overhead ...

 

[kcchiefs6465]

Who knows? But again our GOV used this event for 2 seemingly perpetual wars & again again again.. Lied to its citizens by changing EPA air quality numbers..

Another reason that I particularly do not trust them to be in charge of charity or tax monies.

In my opinion it is a smack to the face (considering their role and general incompetence with regards to 9/11).

 

[Occam's Banana]

The Feds (and anyone who advocates for this involuntarily-funded "fund") have no more business taking from me and mine and giving it over to (an extremely small subset of) New Yorkers than they have taking from me and mine and giving it over to Pakistanis or Azerbaijanis or Wherever-the-hell-is.

As far as I'm concerned, New York and its eponymous city might as well be a foreign country. I've never been there - or to Pakistan or Azerbaijan or Wherever-the-hell - and I don't have any plans or intentions of ever doing so - so why the hell should I forcibly be put on the hook for the tragedies that happen in those places? They don't have a goddam monopoly on tragedy - so why the hell are they so much more deserving of federal funding at taxpayer expense than the far greater number of other victims of other tragedies in other places?

As far as I can tell, this whole issue derives from little more than the desire of politicians (and assholes like Jon Stewart) to publicly masturbate their "compassion" (and thereby signal their "virtue") at the expense of other people ...

 

[vita3]

Certainly need somebody to make sure no graft comes from this

Fwiw 4 additional responders have died since last week

All 50 states sent people, not sure the health of those folks

 

[Intoxiklown]

Not a good look for Rand here on National Stage. Looks heartless

Hope he extends hand to hurting 911 responder community who were lied to by our Gov when Bush Admin changed EPA air quality numbers

He could look a lot more heartless. First thing I asked when I first heard about the fund was, "Don't those people already have pensions and medical plans paid for by taxpayers?"

 

[vita3]

America First..

 

[Badger Paul]

"so why the hell are they so much more deserving of federal funding at taxpayer expense than the far greater number of other victims of other tragedies in other places?"

Since you feel this way I'm sure you will feel the same way when those coal miners in Kentucky whose checks are bouncing because their mines are going belly up come to D.C. demanding a bailout. I have no doubt about it.

The question is...will Rand feel the same way?

 

[Occam's Banana]

"so why the hell are they so much more deserving of federal funding at taxpayer expense than the far greater number of other victims of other tragedies in other places?"

Since you feel this way I'm sure you will feel the same way when those coal miners in Kentucky whose checks are bouncing because their mines are going belly up come to D.C. demanding a bailout. I have no doubt about it.

Wow! You're exactly right. How did you guess?

The question is...will Rand feel the same way?

I don't know. Maybe not. If he doesn't ... well, so what?

What's your point? That politicians are gonna politic? Is that really some kind of news to you?

But if you know of someone in Congress whose shenanigans I should disapprove even less than I do for Rand or Massie, then by all means, tell me who that is. I'm all ears ...

 

[Superfluous Man]

Certainly need somebody to make sure no graft comes from this

Then you remove the entire purpose for putting the government in charge of it.

 

[vita3]

Guess you just want to argue & be a pain in the as*. Good luck with that

Bill will come up for straight vote today

 

[specsaregood]

Fwiw 4 additional responders have died since last week

And rushing through this bill without the opportunity to offer amendments would not have changed that at all. And neither will passing a bill that lasts 70 years and has no budget cap.

 

[vita3]

Doubt anyone on here knew 4 responders died this past week.

Of course financial responsibility needs to be in guard here..we already know that

 

[Superfluous Man]

Doubt anyone on here knew 4 responders died this past week.

Of course financial responsibility needs to be in guard here..we already know that

Over 60,000 people died in the USA last week. Most of them by causes that are no less heart wrenching.

Don't talk about financial responsibility when your entire position here is to argue for the use of violence to force other people to spend their money on something that you're not willing to spend your own money on voluntarily.

 

[RonZeplin]

Of course financial responsibility needs to be in guard here..we already know that

There should be no limit on how many $Billions Trump & leader McConnell donate to the 9/11 responders. Gov needs to get out of the way and let them have at it.

Socialism is NOT the answer.

 

[RonZeplin]

Davy Crockett saved from socialism

Farmer saves Davy Crockett from socialism.

 

[Badger Paul]

"What's your point? That politicians are gonna politic? Is that really some kind of news to you?"

No, in fact I actually find it refreshing. What I can't stand is hypocrites who pose as "tough on spending" trying to make a point at someone else's expense (and American heroes no less) when they wouldn't make the same point on their own people.

 

[tommyrp12]

According to Sheppard Smith, Rand just voted "No" on the bill again. I suspect the media circus is about to begin. Again.

Update: They offered amendments.