Rand Paul speech at Howard University 4/10/13 (tube added)

Yes it does. If the federal government has the authority to tell a business owner that he has to allow certain people into his restaurant, then the federal government has the authority to tell a business owner that he can't allow smoking in his restaurant. Rand was saying that it's a slippery slope, which is true. Rand gave a good answer to that question.

No it doesn't. The expansion of the commerce clause which happened under FDR decades before the Civil Rights Act is what gives the Federal Government that authority! The Civil Rights Act could be repealed tomorrow and the federal government would have the same authority with regards to smoking and calorie menus!
 
No it doesn't. The expansion of the commerce clause which happened under FDR decades before the Civil Rights Act is what gives the Federal Government that authority! The Civil Rights Act could be repealed tomorrow and the federal government would have the same authority with regards to smoking and calorie menus!

What do you think Rand should've said to answer the question?
 
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Rand's speech was a flop in my opinion, he spent way to much time talking about Jim Crow Laws and how bad democrats were in the 1950s and 60s. This is a young audience, what happened in the 1950s and 60s is relevant to them but not necessarily important. He couldn't remember the name of Massachusetts Black GOP Senator, who happened to be an alumni of Howard...he didn't own the fact that the hemp legislation in Kentucky was mostly him and Massie's doing, instead letting others take his credit. Instead of branding himself the leader of a New Republican Party, he instead declared he is a member of Reagan's party. What gets me the most is that he let those Democratic questioners bait him into looking like an establishment figure.

I was extremely frustrated when he indirectly said he supported ID checks at polling places, that was his chance to be like..."I don't want people to be forced to hold IDs, that only leads to more government and more institutional racism." Instead he was like, "Compared to Jim Crow, an ID check isn't that bad". When I compare this to when Ron took part in that African American presidential debate a few years back, Ron was energetic and had a great message. Today, Rand just sounded like another bumbling Republican trying to talk to black people. I still like Rand, but this was not one of his better performances in my opinion.
 
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Rand's speech was a flop in my opinion, he spent way to much time talking about Jim Crow Laws and how bad democrats were in the 1950s and 60s. This is a young audience, what happened in the 1950s and 60s is relevant to them but not necessarily important. He couldn't remember the name of Massachusetts Black GOP Senator, who happened to be an alumni of Howard...he didn't own the fact that the hemp legislation in Kentucky was mostly him and Massie's doing, instead letting others take his credit. Instead of branding himself the leader of a New Republican Party, he instead declared he is a member of Reagan's party. What gets me the most is that he let those Democratic questioners bait him into looking like an establishment figure.

I was extremely frustrated when he indirectly said he supported ID checks at polling places, that was his chance to be like..."I don't want people to be forced to hold IDs, that only leads to more government and more institutional racism." Instead he was like, "Compared to Jim Crow, an ID check isn't that bad". When I compare this to when Ron took part in that African American presidential debate a few years back, Ron was energetic and had a great message. Today, Rand just sounded like another bumbling Republican trying to talk to black people. I still like Rand, but this was not one of his better performances in my opinion.

Perhaps. But he is trying. Black people will respect that. They may not agree with him. But they will respect him for trying. And if he keeps doing it, he will get better at it.

Slutter McGee
 
What do you think Rand should've said to answer the question?

I don't have a perfect answer. I really don't have a perfect answer that cleans up everything Rand has ever said on the issue. I do think it's important not to give your enemies a soundbite that they can put up on some "fact check" sight and make you look like you don't know what you are talking about. Here's one possible answer.

"I am concerned about the absolute expansive power the Federal government has taken over our lives. The power of the Federal government under the commerce clause was originally seen as very limited. Now, perhaps for good intentions, it has become very expansive. Should the Federal government usurp state power when it comes to medical marijuana for instance and possibly put cancer patients in prison? Ways to keep Federal power in check while still accomplishing the good we want to accomplish in society is something we must continue to wrestle and come to grips with. Some in my own party are angry at me for saying that there should be some limit as to who the president can order killed under any circumstance even in time of war. They argue rightly that we need protection from terrorism. But I believe we can be protected from terrorism without violating the constitution. Similarly, while I support the Civil Rights Act both in word and deed, I do think it's worth considering just how much power the Federal government should have in every aspect of our lives and when it may be possible to achieve similar results in different ways."
 
"Rand Paul depression" is trending on yahoo, and apparently "the consensus" is that Rand's speech was incredibly ignorant.


http://www.idigitaltimes.com/articl...-depression-racist-black-african-american.htm


Rand Paul Depression comments are already drawing a flurry of criticism after the senator's speech at Howard University on Wednesday. Rand Paul gave a quickly divisive lecture about race and Republicans, and why the party of Lincoln is now complete anathema to 95% of a group of people the party sparked a war to save. The speech has already drawn criticism for deliberate amnesia of the harm Republicans have wrought upon particular demographics, driving them for perfectly legitimate reasons out of the arms of the party. The largely poor reception of Paul's speech comes in the wake of more recent successful engagements that improved the senator's popularity.

The Rand Paul Depression remarks took place Wednesday at Howard University, a D.C. university historically predominantly attended by a minority that voted 95% for Barack Obama in the latest presidential election. During Rand Paul's 52 minute lecture, the Kentucky senator primarily tried to argue that the particular minority group should vote predominantly with the Republican Party, rather than the Democratic Party with which they have been closely aligned since the 1960s.

The Rand Paul Depression argument came during a long discussion of the Republican Party's relationship with that minority group, starting with the Republican Abraham Lincoln. Senator Paul correctly explained that Lincoln and the 1860s Republican Party led the effort to abolish slavery, and championed Reconstruction and civil rights for minorities throughout the 19th century and beyond, while Southern Democrats were a deeply discriminatory and segregationist party for much of the same period. Rand Paul asked, "How did the Republican Party, the party of the great emancipator, lose the trust and faith of an entire [minority group]?" The Party received less than 5% of the votes of the group in the 2008 presidential election, and less than 7% in 2012.

That's where Rand Paul's Depression comments come in, and where they get controversial. According to the Senator, the Republican Party lost the faith and votes of the minority group during the Great Depression, when the group "languished below [majority] Americans in every measure of economic success." According to Paul, the solutions to that problem drove the minority from the party's wings:

The Democrats promised equalizing outcomes through unlimited federal assistance while Republicans offered something that seemed less tangible: the promise of equalizing opportunity through free markets... Democrats still promise unlimited federal assistance and Republicans promise free markets, low taxes and less regulations that we believe will create more jobs.

Critics have said that the Rand Paul Depression comments are ignorant, discriminatory, and wilful amnesia, accusing the minority group in question of simply taking handouts. The truth, they (correctly) allege, is that the Republican Party abandoned any strong support for civil rights in the 1960s, at the same time that Democrats embraced it. The Civil Rights Act, which ended segregation in the South, passed in a Democratic environment and drove Southern Democrats out of the party and into the Republican party permanently.

The Rand Paul Depression argument is, essentially, that the group incorrectly perceived that the Democratic Party offered it greater economic advantages than the Republicans, whose laissez-faire approach offered more actual benefits in the long run. It's an entirely economic argument, and, whether it's correct or not (it isn't), it entirely leaves out the generations of discrimination and oppression that followed the United States Civil War and the long fight for civil rights that modern Republicans largely opposed. Such an economic argument is typical for Senator Paul, who in the past has suggested only tenuous support for the landmark Civil Rights Act.

Rand Paul Depression comments come in the wake of the Senator's filibuster contra dronem, which brought a great deal of positive attention to the child of Republibertarian firebrand Ron Paul. Rand Paul may be considering a presidential run for 2016, but discriminatory and wilfully ignorant comments like these may sink his chances. At the very least, it won't help the senator pull any more votes from that particular minority group.
 
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Rand's speech was a flop in my opinion, he spent way to much time talking about Jim Crow Laws and how bad democrats were in the 1950s and 60s. This is a young audience, what happened in the 1950s and 60s is relevant to them but not necessarily important. He couldn't remember the name of Massachusetts Black GOP Senator, who happened to be an alumni of Howard...he didn't own the fact that the hemp legislation in Kentucky was mostly him and Massie's doing, instead letting others take his credit. Instead of branding himself the leader of a New Republican Party, he instead declared he is a member of Reagan's party. What gets me the most is that he let those Democratic questioners bait him into looking like an establishment figure.

I was extremely frustrated when he indirectly said he supported ID checks at polling places, that was his chance to be like..."I don't want people to be forced to hold IDs, that only leads to more government and more institutional racism." Instead he was like, "Compared to Jim Crow, an ID check isn't that bad". When I compare this to when Ron took part in that African American presidential debate a few years back, Ron was energetic and had a great message. Today, Rand just sounded like another bumbling Republican trying to talk to black people. I still like Rand, but this was not one of his better performances in my opinion.

Yeah, Rand should oppose voter ID laws when 85% of Americans support it, and it's a completely reasonable requirement. You have to have an ID to fly on a plane for goodness sake.
 
Maybe the media's consensus, here's another article with comments from the people there:

Talking to students after the event revealed audience members pleased that he came to Howard, but reflected the steep climb Rand Paul and the GOP has with African Americans and other minority voters.

Howard student John Crawford said Paul's explanation of why black voters historically should be Republicans was "some revisionist history going on," but he said he does think he will be able to woo some voters "just because he had the courage and integrity to come here."

"I just hope the next school or conference he goes to he doesn't pull a Mitt Romney (and say), 'If you want free stuff or if you want makers or takers vote for Democrats,' because I feel like that's What Mitt Romney did ..and I hope Rand Paul doesn't pull that because all of the good will Rand Paul got from coming here will be gone."

Crawford is referring to Romney's "47 percent" video where he was secretly recorded at a private fundraiser saying 47 percent of Americans are "dependent on the government," as well as Romney blaming his loss on "gifts" President Obama and Democrats gave to minority voters on a conference call after the election.

Kwanda Trice, a Howard graduate student from Paul's native Kentucky, asked a question during the event about drug sentences and state hemp laws. She said although she didn't get a full answer to her question she said she has "to give him props" for coming to Howard.

"This was a hard crowd, but he decided to come here and basically bridge the gap between African Americans and the Republican Party and that says a lot," Trice said. "To come here to Howard University where students are progressive, they are educated, they know the issues and they know the policies back and forth and to be able to actually face them head on I have to commend him for that."

Trice added, "Going forward we will see what his actions are."

http://news.yahoo.com/rand-paul-rea...-university-204456610--abc-news-politics.html
 
Rand may be, but you aren't. :rolleyes: Seriously, the Rand worship is sickeningly stupid. I have nothing against Rand. I have plenty against sycophants who can't stomach someone simply saying "He could have said that better." And the truth is....he could have. The Civil Rights Act has nothing to do with smoking or calorie counts on menus. That was a "Sarah Palin" moment, as in an unnecessary soundbite that might bite him in the butt later. I sincerely hope it doesn't. But I'm not going to turn my brain off just to avoid any slight criticism of Rand or to avoid offending those who can't seem to take any slight criticism of Rand.

Edit: And for the record, who said anything about "slavery?" :rolleyes: The question was about the Civil Rights Act and the role of the federal government. And that will be an important issue going forward. You think the country will have "moved on" to "women's issues?" Do you not understand the Civil Rights Act also covers women? Do you not understand that Rand's vote against the latest version of the "violence against women" act is based on the same issues as his earlier criticism of the Civil Rights Act? This isn't about whether or not Rand should pick his battles. Clearly he should. It's about how well he does in those battles when they are brought to his doorstep! Rand knew the Civil Rights Act would come up. Hell he brought it up in his speech! And it will come up again....and again....and again. Hopefully his answers will improve each time he deals with the subject.

rather than worship it's more like telling people who haven't done shit to stfu =-\ or match his effort--no, not even that, it's results, rather than yapping

Not trying to prove i'm smarter than most of you either, though i suspect i am
 
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I think in the future Rand should forget about talking about the history of the Republican Party and blacks and just talk about his political ideology and why blacks should support it. Rand did really good in his speech and in the question and answer session when he was trying to sell his ideology.
 
This answer here may make or break him. Civil rights act.

Edit: Ouch, didn't like that answer...

felt like he was pandering and condescending at the same time.

I have to say, I think his dad would have come away winning more of the audience than Rand did.

Probably not. His father would have probably had more vitriol headed his way, but at the end of the day his answers would have been unequivocally from the heart.

I don't think so. They'd go after him about the newsletters and the other stuff. Ron's race baggage is worse than Rand's. They don't even care about the good things both of the Pauls have to offer. They just think "racist!"

its tough being in the lions den. i appreciate Rand trying, but the speech was hard to watch. he was visibly uncomfortable. In my opinion not only was he making a tactical error talking about the republican party of the last century but then even worse he made some kind of comparison of todays GOP to the party of Abraham Lincoln. Stating the party never really changed. He should have REFUTED the GOP of old and made the case that there is a new, fresh brand of conservatism.

Not only that but he came off as somewhat condescending at times. Not on purpose of course but condescending nonetheless.

It's unfortunate that Rand's speech was more about defending the Republican party than defending philosophy. You can't do that and expect to win over people in an audience that is still very much locked in a R vs. D mindset.

i agree.

Seems like the left is pounding Rand. TPM, Mother Jones, and Ari Melber of The Nation are all saying Rand's speech was essentially a giant lie, ignorant, and naive.

naive and misguided for sure.

Those student questions were a joke and they were regurgitating Democrat talking points and reading from their phones. Fakers.

That crowd was a rabidly partisan crowd.

You can tell the Democrats are well organized on that campus.

Breaking that matrix is impossible. I doubt he convinced any of them.

no but he might of convinced some of the thousands at home who caught a glimpse of him on cspan.

Completely agree. Other GOP'ers would've been boo'd out of the room. I smell brushfire smoke.

well, i don't smell anything, but i think you're right that just about ANY gop candidate would have been boo'd outta there.

You obviously didn't watch it then.

I think you'd be hard-pressed to find any positive media of this event outside of our own little Ron Paul Forums bubble that we live in.
 
I think in the future Rand should forget about talking about the history of the Republican Party and blacks and just talk about his political ideology and why blacks should support it. Rand did really good in his speech and in the question and answer session when he was trying to sell his ideology.

Hopefully he's using this to help him perfect his message for the Presidential election. Learn what works now and avoid what doesn't later. I agree with you that he should focus more on ideology and why it would be beneficial to <insert group he's talking to>.
 
I think you'd be hard-pressed to find any positive media of this event outside of our own little Ron Paul Forums bubble that we live in.

1) Most of the students who were interviewed either had neutral or positive impressions of Rand's speech.
2) Rand did poorly when he was talking about the history of the Republican Party and blacks, but did well when he was talking about how his ideology would be better for blacks.
 
rather than worship it's more like telling people who haven't done shit to stfu =-\ or match his effort--no, not even that, it's results, rather than yapping

Not trying to prove i'm smarter than most of you either, though i suspect i am

You could be smarter. But you've just shown yourself to be woefully ignorant by your comments. People who "haven't done shit"? Who is that precisely? For the record Rand Paul knows who I am because I was one of the introductory speakers when he spoke at the Nashville rally in 2008. And I actually know what I'm talking about with regards to the history of the Civil Rights Act and what Rand's particular concerns with them are. He didn't do the best job articulating those concerns. That's fine. We live and learn when we can admit our mistakes. We don't live and learn when we try to change to subject to slavery or women's issues and think the people we are talking to are too stupid to notice. Rand thankfully didn't do that. You did.

Seriously, of all of the people who have criticized Rand in this thread, what made you decide to harp on me? Not that I mind. I welcome intelligent discussion. I just didn't see that in your comments. Going off on tangents about stuff not being discussed (slavery and women's issues) or saying "You can't criticize Rand because he's so great and you aren't" doesn't pass muster IMO.
 
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Overall I would still say that Rand and the Republican Party in general has a much better chance to win over Latinos than to win over blacks.
 
I thought we thought of people as individuals here, not parts of a collective? [/sarcasm]
 
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