Rand Paul Responds to Ron: 'Chris Kyle Was a Hero'

[PaulConventionWV]

What? What request? The one made up here?

The one asking Ron to participate in a "pincer movement" which you think would be manipulation on Ron's part.

 

[The Gold Standard]

This whole series of threads surround the death of a SEAL who's actions in war, while questionable, might have been necessary from his perspective. Sure there's no need to disparage some woman he shot while she was about to blow up some marines. But if he was telling the truth, and I have no reason to doubt that he was, then he saved some troops' lives. Do you think they care whether he was compassionate and cried tears after pulling the trigger? I'm writing this as someone who is not a fan of Chris Kyle. My point is that one advantage our enemies have is that they don't expect their heroes to be pure as the driven snow. (And no, I don't count Kyle as an enemy or everyone who sees him as a hero to be an enemy. But those who started that vile war are my enemies).

Most people here are supportive of the troops in general. Take your typical kid who couldn't get a job and has to sign up for the military. He gets sent over to gun down people in their homes. He probably doesn't want to do it, but he is getting screamed at, drugged up, and threatened by his superiors, and he needs that paycheck, so he does it. Then he comes back fucked up mentally for the rest of his life. While you can't morally excuse that soldier's actions, you know he is a real human being that was used and abused by the state war machine.

Then take a guy like Kyle. We know how he felt about what he did. He couldn't get enough blood. Women, children, it doesn't matter, if their skin was brown they were savages that deserved one of his bullets in their heads. The guy was a fucking psychopath. Criticizing Chris Kyle does not at all mean someone hates the troops.

 

[phill4paul]

Most people here are supportive of the troops in general. Take your typical kid who couldn't get a job and has to sign up for the military. He gets sent over to gun down people in their homes. He probably doesn't want to do it, but he is getting screamed at, drugged up, and threatened by his superiors, and he needs that paycheck, so he does it. Then he comes back fucked up mentally for the rest of his life. While you can't morally excuse that soldier's actions, you know he is a real human being that was used and abused by the state war machine.

Then take a guy like Kyle. We know how he felt about what he did. He couldn't get enough blood. Women, children, it doesn't matter, if their skin was brown they were savages that deserved one of his bullets in their heads. The guy was a fucking psychopath. Criticizing Chris Kyle does not at all mean someone hates the troops.

Quite right. And those that defend Kyle's actions since returning, helping vet etc., is kinda like saying the Hell's Angel's are upstanding citizens because they do a poker run.

 

[PaulConventionWV]

The spanking? The one I've witnessed so many times as you make idiotic statements and have to back peddle? I'm grown. You are a pup living in the world of academia. Get some dirt, callouses, wrinkles and age spots on your hands and come back at me.

You are speaking from your own perception. In my perception, I was never "spanked." You just think that because you disagree with me and give unequal weight to other people who spoke for opposing viewpoints.

And don't think I don't do real work, either. Do you see how you are assuming so much just by the fact that I am in college? If I was a conventional student, I would have already graduated, but I'm not. I'm in a position now where I'm working for a living while juggling school and trying to build a life for myself. I've worked in construction, so don't feed me that bullshit about dirt and callouses and such. I'm not a rich kid.

 

[sailingaway]

The one asking Ron to participate in a "pincer movement" which you think would be manipulation on Ron's part.

It never happened, it was just a 'suppose' in someone's mind as to how they thought things might have been happening. I said why it would bother me if Ron were involved in manipulation, but that I also didn't think that was happening at all.

 

[phill4paul]

You are speaking from your own perception. In my perception, I was never "spanked." You just think that because you disagree with me and give unequal weight to other people who spoke for opposing viewpoints.

And don't think I don't do real work, either. Do you see how you are assuming so much just by the fact that I am in college? If I was a conventional student, I would have already graduated, but I'm not. I'm in a position now where I'm working for a living while juggling school and trying to build a life for myself. I've worked in construction, so don't feed me that bullshit about dirt and callouses and such. I'm not a rich kid.

Good for you. I've moved past it. Please, do the same.

 

[ProvincialPeasant]

A couple more pages in this thread and we'll be calling the Patriots murderous scum, YAY! RON PAUL REVOLUTION DERP

 

[PaulConventionWV]

It never happened, it was just a 'suppose' in someone's mind as to how they thought things might have been happening. I said why it would bother me if Ron were involved in manipulation, but that I also didn't think that was happening at all.

Right, but I was just wondering why it would be bad if it were happening. Either way, Ron is doing the same things he's always done.

 

[PaulConventionWV]

Good for you. I've moved past it. Please, do the same.

You've moved past it? That's quite a change of tone from your previous posts. Part of me thinks you are just running away from confrontation when you realize you were wrong, but nonetheless, I'll oblige.

 

[Bastiat's The Law]

Last post from me on this tonight. Am I the only one here that remembers the "Ken Buck" fiasco? Am I the only one that remembers the claims that the C4L must have been "taken over" for it to cut a TV commercial that kinda/sorta supported Ken Buck despite Buck having some less than pure views on foreign policy? Remember the crow a lot of us ate (including myself) when it came out that Ron was very much aware of the decision before it happened?

Folks this is political warfare! This whole series of threads surround the death of a SEAL who's actions in war, while questionable, might have been necessary from his perspective. Sure there's no need to disparage some woman he shot while she was about to blow up some marines. But if he was telling the truth, and I have no reason to doubt that he was, then he saved some troops' lives. Do you think they care whether he was compassionate and cried tears after pulling the trigger? I'm writing this as someone who is not a fan of Chris Kyle. My point is that one advantage our enemies have is that they don't expect their heroes to be pure as the driven snow. (And no, I don't count Kyle as an enemy or everyone who sees him as a hero to be an enemy. But those who started that vile war are my enemies).

I saw the video I posted in post #62 back in 2010. Back then I tried to raise concerns, without attacking Rand, over the strategy of pushing so hard for the "teocon" vote rather than pushing the principles of his dad, especially since polls indicated he was way ahead of Trey Grayson. I was roundly attacked for doing so. I had the same concerns many are expressing now. It could "split the movement." We "need to actually change hearts and minds instead of just winning people over." It "seems underhanded." Well, history shows that Rand won and he seems to be growing in prominence because he's following a strategy I don't particularly like. I wrote a letter to him expressing my concerns and planned to hand deliver it to him the night of his primary victory. Though I got the chance I decided not to go through with it. I decided then to just ride this out and see what happens. I'm glad people hold Rand's feet to the fire. It seems Ron is not one of those people. It also seems that Ron is pushing an agenda that seems at cross purposes with Rand's, but really isn't. Maybe I'm wrong in my analysis. But if my analysis is correct I see nothing "vile" about what might be happening.

Over the past months we've been turning more and more against each other. Different factions try to "control" what the other is doing. Imagine if this movement is metamorphosing into something new where people are freer to be themselves while still pushing for the same ultimate goal? You like educating rather than politicizing? Work with Ron Paul and Tom Woods. You'd rather concentrate on winning elections? Work with Rand Paul, Jack Hunter and John Tate. This "split" ain't necessarily a bad thing.

Kyle's actions during wartime are only "questionable" to a fringe element. Too everyone else, he was protecting the lives of his fellow soldiers, period.

 

[awake]

Am I the only one that neither finds Ron Paul's statement inappropriate or inaccurate? Am I still on the Ron Paul forum? The military hero worship is too strong of an elixir to see straight here.

Take a walk with me...

There is a good chance no one would have died in this story if Kyle and his friendly fire buddy never set foot in a foreign land due to an inappropriate and vial foreign policy. No PTSD, no flipped out shooter. There is an almost near certain chance that a book of his kill list would not have made the shelves either. The man missed out on his calling of teaching hunters to nail deer at extreme distances. Instead, he decided to operate a school (international) for mercenaries awaiting their chance at "Black water" or what ever their preferred contractor of choice name is this week.

I'm really disappointed in this idea that Ron's views are suddenly too much, or "inappropriate". Just another sign this movement is growing cozy to the idea that the message needs to be "groomed" to get votes.

 

[sailingaway]

Am I the only one that neither finds Ron Paul's statement inappropriate or inaccurate? Am I still on the Ron Paul forum? The military hero worship is too strong of an elixir to see straight here.

Take a walk with me...

There is a good chance no one would have died in this story if Kyle and his friendly fire buddy never set foot in a foreign land due to an inappropriate and vial foreign policy. No PTSD, no flipped out shooter. There is a almost near certain chance that a book of his kill list would not have made the shelves either. The man missed out on his calling of teaching hunters to nail deer at extreme distances. Instead, he decided to operate a school (international) for mercenaries awaiting their chance at "Black water" or what ever their preferred contractor of choice name is this week.

I'm really disappointed in this idea that Ron's views are suddenly too much, or "appropriate". Just another sign this movement is growing cozy to the idea that the message needs to be "groomed" to get votes.

I have absolutely no problem with Ron's facebook post.

given that the guy was just killed and his family are grieving, the tweet would surprise me coming from Ron who is usually gentle with people (his family) who are upset. If he DID tweet it I would assume it was tortured by the length requirement he isn't by any means used to, and amplified by the fact that he didn't know his tweets reach as many people beyond those who know him well.

I understood Ron was going to put his initials on what he posted himself, as he did the facebook post, however, and they aren't on the tweet.

 

[sailingaway]

Right, but I was just wondering why it would be bad if it were happening. Either way, Ron is doing the same things he's always done.

Because if he was involved in tricking people, it would be unlike him, and to me dishonest. I really don't like that. I like direct honesty. If Rand said HE were doing something (as the poster was suggesting) and Ron just said 'well, it is your life, you have to live it your way' and went on living his own life his own way, that's not a Ron issue.

 

[phill4paul]

Am I the only one that neither finds Ron Paul's statement inappropriate or inaccurate? Am I still on the Ron Paul forum?

I find this tweet neither inappropriate or inaccurate. My only question is the source.

 

[pcosmar]

http://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/slippery-slope

WTF?
Seriously What the fuck is that and what does it have to do with anything I posted,, or in this thread?

slippery slope
You said that if we allow A to happen, then Z will eventually happen too, therefore A should not happen.

 

[awake]

I find this tweet neither inappropriate or inaccurate. My only question is the source.

Is there something that makes you think that he did not write it?

BTW Kyle was in the Merc business... http://www.thecraft.com/training_MIL.html

 

[sailingaway]

Is there something that makes you think that he did not write it?

BTW Kyle was in the Merc business... http://www.thecraft.com/training_MIL.html

Supposedly, his initials were going to be on his personal posts, and they weren't. we don't know.

 

[Philosophy_of_Politics]

Being on the Ron Paul forums. I would expect that many of you would have learned, to use logic deduction, rather than emotionally conflicted arguments?

Ron Paul's statement rings true as always.

 

[Butchie]

Am I the only one that neither finds Ron Paul's statement inappropriate or inaccurate? Am I still on the Ron Paul forum? The military hero worship is too strong of an elixir to see straight here.

Take a walk with me...

There is a good chance no one would have died in this story if Kyle and his friendly fire buddy never set foot in a foreign land due to an inappropriate and vial foreign policy. No PTSD, no flipped out shooter. There is an almost near certain chance that a book of his kill list would not have made the shelves either. The man missed out on his calling of teaching hunters to nail deer at extreme distances. Instead, he decided to operate a school (international) for mercenaries awaiting their chance at "Black water" or what ever their preferred contractor of choice name is this week.

I'm really disappointed in this idea that Ron's views are suddenly too much, or "inappropriate". Just another sign this movement is growing cozy to the idea that the message needs to be "groomed" to get votes.

It does need to be groomed or you will get no votes. Why do all of you always think that just because someone suggest there was a better way of saying the same thing that suddenly they are sellouts or liars? If I tell you a glass is half full rather than half empty am I lying? No, both are true, one sounds better, so why not use the one that sounds better? Common sense.

 

[phill4paul]

Is there something that makes you think that he did not write it?

Yes. Tone. Approach. My belief that there are those within Ron/Rand Paul Inc. that wish to do the "message" harm by portraying it in a negative light.