Rand Paul Responds to Ron: 'Chris Kyle Was a Hero'

[acptulsa]

Those people will never learn...

And Rand kissing their asses ain't gonna do nothing to help them learn, either.

If Rand gets in the White House, brings the troops home, and sets off a major recovery, they just might buy a clue or two.

 

[sailingaway]

You missed what I said right before that. " I admit I'm guessing, as have many people today on this. " The idea that "Ron's account was hacked" or "someone else posted the tweet" are merely examples of other people's guesses.

Assuming that Ron actually posted the tweet, and that Rand posted this in "response" to Breitbart asking Rand about Ron's comments, there are only two possibilities.

1) Ron and Rand really don't see eye to eye and Rand doesn't mind the world knowing it.

2) Rand, at least, is posturing. Ron may be a willing participant in the posturing.

Again, look at the video I posted from 2006. Either Rand agreed with military tribunals because he thought it would be a "problem" if testimony from torture wasn't allowed, or Rand was posturing. If Rand was posturing and didn't actually believe what he was saying, or if he was carefully parsing words to give someone the impression that was "with them" on the military tribunal thing, then that at least opens the possibility of Ron going along with the posturing because Ron didn't bust Rand. He could have said "That's not what you said when we talked about this." He didn't. And yes, I suppose #2 is more acceptable than #1 to me.

RON posturing is not acceptable to me.

Nor have I ever seen it or heard of his doing so.

 

[CaptUSA]

Hate the war, not the warrior. The warrior has a job to do. And given the right circumstances, warriors are a very valuable tool.

 

[sailingaway]

Hate the war, not the warrior. The warrior has a job to do. And given the right circumstances, warriors are a very valuable tool.

Ron has always been very respectful of soldiers and veterans. He didn't get them as his top donors by disrespecting them.

 

[CaptUSA]

Ron has always been very respectful of soldiers and veterans. He didn't get them as his top donors by disrespecting them.

Exactly. My post was not for Ron, but for some of the posters in here.

 

[phill4paul]

Drama queen. Seriously, grow up.

College boy, you constantly are spanked by adults that know more and are better at expressing their position. I could'nt care less about your opinion of me.

 

[AuH20]

Hate the war, not the warrior. The warrior has a job to do. And given the right circumstances, warriors are a very valuable tool.

The overflowing hate for Kyle is mind-boggling. I personally don't think he is a national hero, largely because of a flawed mission objective, but he was often assigned to provide support for vulnerable units in action. And he was incredibly proficient at his job, in fact too good. Yet we have people equating him with Hitler. The same Hitler who was arbitrarily killling people outside a combat zone.

 

[PaulConventionWV]

BOTH Paul's need to issue a statement, together, about this whole Machiavellian fiasco. Now.

I can't believe people still think Paul owes them and the world a comment, as if answering your private concerns was all that important. I've been hearing this shit on this board all the time. "Ron needs to issue a statement about X because I am personally in turmoil over it." Like I said, grow up.

Now you think you know what BOTH of them should do or say. Well, you don't. Get over yourself.

 

[jmdrake]

I take back the 'facts you don't like' part. I meant it would explain unpopular actions.

However, if Ron was knowingly running a pincer movement that is manipulative. Manipulation is dishonest. I would be disgusted. That would be HIGHLY UN-Ron Paul.

And the people who support him do it because of who he is, at least as much as what he says, and by that I mean his character.

Fair enough. But I didn't put what I'm saying the best way because people are choosing the most negative response. Assume the following conversation happened. (And yes I'm totally making this up.)


Rand in 2010: Dad, I think I have a shot at winning the senate and maybe even being a presidential contender, but I can't do it staying 100% pure on your foreign policy.

Ron: Fine. You've got to do what you think is best.

Rand in 2012/2013: Dad, the senate thing worked. I have a decent shot at being president. But I think your "educational campaign" isn't going to work for me. Don't get me wrong. I think it's still important to educate the public about true liberty. But most voters aren't ready for it.

Ron: Fine. I'll push the educational aspect as possible. I'll throw off all restraints as I'm no longer running for anything. I'll even hire Benton's nemesis Tom Woods. And if you need to distance yourself from something I've said, feel free. Just don't overtly disrespect me. That will piss of my supporters more than you can imagine, and you're going to need them in 2016.

Rand: Sounds like a plan!

 

[sailingaway]

Fair enough. But I didn't put what I'm saying the best way because people are choosing the most negative response. Assume the following conversation happened. (And yes I'm totally making this up.)


Rand in 2010: Dad, I think I have a shot at winning the senate and maybe even being a presidential contender, but I can't do it staying 100% pure on your foreign policy.

Ron: Fine. You've got to do what you think is best.

Rand in 2012/2013: Dad, the senate thing worked. I have a decent shot at being president. But I think your "educational campaign" isn't going to work for me. Don't get me wrong. I think it's still important to educate the public about true liberty. But most voters aren't ready for it.

Ron: Fine. I'll push the educational aspect as possible. I'll throw off all restraints as I'm no longer running for anything. I'll even hire Benton's nemesis Tom Woods. And if you need to distance yourself from something I've said, feel free. Just don't overtly disrespect me. That will piss of my supporters more than you can imagine, and you're going to need them in 2016.

Rand: Sounds like a plan!

That's just Rand saying he'll be Rand and Ron saying he'll keep on doing what he always does. I don't see a pincer movement. Ron would ALWAYS tell Rand he should do what he thinks is right. I'd take out the 'fine' if I were dreaming up the conversation because Ron has made it very clear he thinks it is the wrong tactic to back off on foreign policy, he made a point of saying that just a week ago at the Mises Circle event, in fact.

 

[Anti Federalist]

Hate the war, not the warrior. The warrior has a job to do. And given the right circumstances, warriors are a very valuable tool.

One thing to travel halfway around the world to blow the brainpans out of people that dared fight back against the mighty Empire because it is perceived as your job and duty.

Quite another to get rich selling books laughing and making light of your killing.

 

[jmdrake]

RON posturing is not acceptable to me.

Nor have I ever seen it or heard of his doing so.

Maybe we have different definitions of posturing.



And what I actually said was "Ron may be a willing participant in Rand's posturing". Again, if Rand was posturing in the video I posted in post #62, Ron would have been in the uncomfortable position of either going along, or busting Rand. I don't see Ron as the type that would bust his own son. He hasn't even been willing to bust the writer of the newsletters.

 

[sailingaway]

Maybe we have different definitions of posturing.



And what I actually said was "Ron may be a willing participant in Rand's posturing". Again, if Rand was posturing in the video I posted in post #62, Ron would have been in the uncomfortable position of either going along, or busting Rand. I don't see Ron as the type that would bust his own son. He hasn't even been willing to bust the writer of the newsletters.

Not busting someone after it is done is different. I agree THAT is Ron all over. I'll look at this last video.

--

edit, but that video proves MY point, Ron would tell us. He wouldn't manipulate us.

 

[dannno]

The hate for Kyle is mind-boggling. I personally don't think he is a national hero, largely because of a flawed mission objective, but he was often assigned to provide support for vulnerable units in action. And he was incredibly proficient at his job, in fact too good. Yet we have people equating him with Hitler. The same Hitler who was arbitrarily killling people outside a combat zone.

I assume you've read this?

http://freedominourtime.blogspot.com/2012/02/pseudo-courage-of-chris-kyle.html

 

[AuH20]

One thing to travel halfway around the world to blow the brainpans out of people that dared fight back against the mighty Empire because it is perceived as your job and duty.

Quite another to get rich selling books laughing and making light of your killing.

You have a point on the second statement. But he did in fact donate large sums of money to injured seals. Yet ironically, this notoriety may have gotten himself killed.

 

[phill4paul]

I can't believe people still think Paul owes them and the world a comment, as if answering your private concerns was all that important. I've been hearing this shit on this board all the time. "Ron needs to issue a statement about X because I am personally in turmoil over it." Like I said, grow up.

Now you think you know what BOTH of them should do or say. Well, you don't. Get over yourself.

I have contributed to Ron in many ways. Who the fuck are YOU to tell me whether my feelings and beliefs are valid? Get your swinging dick out of college and gain another 20 years and then talk to me. I'm expressing my OPINION. Don't like that? Tough luck. WTF? No keggers tonight?

 

[A Son of Liberty]

Hate the war, not the warrior. The warrior has a job to do. And given the right circumstances, warriors are a very valuable tool.

I posted this in the 'Devil of Ramadi' thread, but it is appropriate here:

I would expect a decent human being to 1) not put himself in that situation to begin with; 2) having inadvertently put himself in that situation, defend his life but to recognize the injustice of it, and repent - DEEPLY or, failing that, to respect the humanity of the life he just took, and MOURN.

Kyle expressed nothing of the sort. I completely understand that our entire society is built upon a particular paradigm which glorifies the role Chris Kyle played. Yet at a minimum, as a human being, before looking down range at another human being and pulling a trigger to cause their death, I do not think it is too much to expect a certain amount of introspection and reflection.

I pray for Chris Kyle, and sympathize with him; but I do not overlook his role in society, on a human level, simply because society has constructed an artifice which excuses his actions. His actions are his own, and he alone is responsible for them. To allow excuses for such actions is to go down a road all too familiar to statists and socialists.

 

[dannno]

Fair enough. But I didn't put what I'm saying the best way because people are choosing the most negative response. Assume the following conversation happened. (And yes I'm totally making this up.)


Rand in 2010: Dad, I think I have a shot at winning the senate and maybe even being a presidential contender, but I can't do it staying 100% pure on your foreign policy.

Ron: Fine. You've got to do what you think is best.

Rand in 2012/2013: Dad, the senate thing worked. I have a decent shot at being president. But I think your "educational campaign" isn't going to work for me. Don't get me wrong. I think it's still important to educate the public about true liberty. But most voters aren't ready for it.

Ron: Fine. I'll push the educational aspect as possible. I'll throw off all restraints as I'm no longer running for anything. I'll even hire Benton's nemesis Tom Woods. And if you need to distance yourself from something I've said, feel free. Just don't overtly disrespect me. That will piss of my supporters more than you can imagine, and you're going to need them in 2016.

Rand: Sounds like a plan!

Yes, this is much more than plausible imo.

 

[jmdrake]

That's just Rand saying he'll be Rand and Ron saying he'll keep on doing what he always does. I don't see a pincer movement. Ron would ALWAYS tell Rand he should do what he thinks is right. I'd take out the 'fine' if I were dreaming up the conversation because Ron has made it very clear he thinks it is the wrong tactic to back off on foreign policy, he made a point of saying that just a week ago at the Mises Circle event, in fact.

And Ron isn't backing off foreign policy! That's the beauty of it. It's full steam ahead for Ron. Rand is taking then "try to agree with your adversary and then win him over to your position" approach. There's nothing dishonest or Machiavellian about it. In fact the more people Ron wins over, the less Rand will need to posture.

 

[AuH20]

I assume you've read this?

http://freedominourtime.blogspot.com/2012/02/pseudo-courage-of-chris-kyle.html

I don't think Kyle was cowardly. He was misguided and uneducated if anything.